Dystichia/Staph Infection Questions

The extra eyelashes are congenital so you didn't do anything to cause this. They cause infection by irritation of the surface of the eye. You can laser or freeze them, at least you can with people. I'd ask about that. Do you have access to a multi-specialty vet clinic with ophtho? With people you can do a bleph if there are too many of them as well, but I'm not sure if you can do that with dogs.

kmarie

The vet wasn't helpful at all. He didn't like the fact I was doing the titers and I feed Monty raw and my vet does not agree with that so he doesn't seem to want to help me when he thinks I'm "harming my dog anyway."

I know this is very annoying, but hang in there.  There are more enlightened vets out there.  If you can find a raw feeding group in your area they may be able to recommend a vet.

kmarie

is there anything I can do for the infection on my own other than give Monty antibiotics and hope he doesn't start throwing up from them.

See this post for info on using Slippery Elm to coat Monty's digestive tract.  That should reduce the irritation from the antibiotic.

You could also give Pepto Bismol to coat the stomach.  This web page gives the dosage as 1 tsp. per 5 pounds every 6 hours to relieve vomiting, stomach gas, or diarrhea.  Since formulations can periodically change, you should check with the vet to be sure that Pepto Bismol is still OK.

I would also give Monty probiotics 2-3 hours after each dose of antibiotic. 

 

As far as the eyelashes, you probably will need to find an opthamalogical specialist - that usually requires surgery.

In order to find a vet who will support your feeding choices you probably need to use *two* vets.  You may not find a vet in your area who is a "regular" vet who will support raw.  But you should be able to find a holistic vet who will support you diet-wise and be able to guide you carefully that way, and who should also be able to help you with such recurrent infections.

 I usually refer folks via the Chi Institute website http://www.tcvm.com -- looks like there are about 25 vets in Wisconsin alone, and if you are near a border that may increase your choices.  "TCVM" is traditional Chinese veterinary medicine -- not a Chinese vet, but rather a licensed, certified, vet who has chosen to increase their practice to include acupuncture, Chinese herbals (completely different from Western herbs) and sometimes other modalities.  But they'll be able to give you good alternatives to things like antibiotics **where they are safe and indicated**. 

What sort of antibiotic is it?  (given that it's Sunday and you may need to deal with side effects til you can contact someone).  Do you have probiotics to give?  How about something like slippery elm to coat the stomach and help it deal with the antibiotic?

It's not easy to deal with a vet who has become antagonistic because of your choices for your animal's health.  (Good for you on taking titers, btw.)  Sometimes antibiotics *are* necessary -- particularly if infection has set in.  The eyes are tricky anyway -- and you don't want to do something that might cause blindness.

Now, I'm going to hasten to add, I'm not advocating you "leave" your regular vet.  Often holistic vets don't do things like surgery and you are then in a position where you need to keep both vets apprised of what's going on with your pet's health.  I do this routinely -- and my regular vet has actually grown to respect my TCVM vet a great deal.  My regular vet trusts that I won't take off on some oblique course of action without keeping him in the loop. 

If we have tests done at EITHER vet, the other vet is copied.  At this point they will even call each other and consult. 

Regular vets usually aren't huge into nutrition -- and something like a raw diet can seem overly risky to them.  They may feel "slapped in the face" by your choices and it can take some careful handling to get them to work with you rather than against you. 

The typical antibiotic for a staph infection would be something like cephalexyn ... but I haven't a clue what they'd do since it's occular.  But cephalexyn, like many drugs of it's class, ARE hard on the gut.  So they can be tough to take.

Are you familiar with probiotics?  You have to give them at least 2 hours 'off' from the antibiotic or the antibiotic will simply 'kill' the good bacteria in the probiotic and it doesn't help or do what it should.

Your regular vet probably has access to a really GOOD one, put out by (or all people *sigh*) Purina.  It's called Forti-Flora and it's little envelopes that you add to their food.

There are tons of probiotics tho -- from regular organic yogurt that you add to their food, to store bought ones (usually from a health store).  But the concept of a probiotic shouldn't be adverse to your regular vet, altho they may not have used them routinely. 

 

ottoluv

With people you can do a bleph if there are too many of them as well, but I'm not sure if you can do that with dogs.

I had to look it up, so for those with no idea what a "bleph" is, Blepharoplasty is an eyelift.  I could use one of those. 

Thanks everyone for the advice. I just felt so awful and guilty. I really try to keep up on everything with Monty, and he's had his share. He came to us pretty ill and we did our own research about his stomach issues, skin issues, etc., and the raw diet and fresh foods really helped. Callie, I do us a probiotic and digestive enzyme.

Monty had his first dose of the antibiotic Saturday night. It's Simplicef, 100mg, once a day for 14 days. 

I'm close to the UW-Madison vet school but am not sure about them. I contacted them last week to inquire about titers and I got the same attitude. It's hard. I feel like I'm on an island with very little info about stuff. When I was seeing our first vet, I indicated I found out some information on this Web site. I was instructed to stop using the Internet to treat my dog. "I'm the vet, you're not." I switched vets after that but it's pretty much the same attitude.

I'll try the suggestions offered and also use the Web site Callie provided to try to find another vet who is more in line with how I want Monty's care to be.

 

 

kmarie

I do us a probiotic and digestive enzyme.

Monty had his first dose of the antibiotic Saturday night. It's Simplicef, 100mg, once a day for 14 days. 

I'm close to the UW-Madison vet school but am not sure about them. I contacted them last week to inquire about titers and I got the same attitude. It's hard. I feel like I'm on an island with very little info about stuff. When I was seeing our first vet, I indicated I found out some information on this Web site. I was instructed to stop using the Internet to treat my dog. "I'm the vet, you're not." I switched vets after that but it's pretty much the same attitude.

If you regularly use a probiotic, then *switch* while doing the Simplicef.  You should switch them every month or so anyway (bacteria is bacteria and the body can become 'resistant' to it so switching is good).

Simplicef is sort of cephaexin to the next level -- it's a good drug but sort of more powerful than ceph, a/k/a Keflex. (which is a 'brand' name like Simplicef is a brand name of the 'bigger' antibiotic)  (but that's why the "ceph" -- they are related drugs). 

BUT both will be hard on the gut -- so give the med with food, and depending on what kind of raw feeding you do, you might go a bit easy on his tummy right now. 

See -- if you're doing only meat/bone raw, then that doesn't give much to follow thru the intestinal tract with the medicine.  You might want to give either pureed or cooked/mashed veg at the very least or even some mild grain (like oatmeal or very very cooked white rice) that will help the intestinal tract.

See protein is absorbed directly into the blood stream from the stomach -- little bits of fat or bone go further but when the dog is on antibiotics that won't be restricted to the tummy, you may want to feed him a bit different while he's on the antibiotic to minimalize the trauma.  just a thot -- I home cook and I'm no raw authority at all.

Just wanted to clarify since the above is has some points which are incorrect. Simplecef is a cephalosporin simmilar to keflex that treats the same bacteria, it is not a "big gun" antibiotic. Simplecef is cefpodoxime and Keflex is cephalexin. It's nicer then keflex because it's once a day dosing. A big gun cephalosporin would be like Rocephin or ceftaz, or the biggest cefepime. There are different generations of cephalosporins and they all treat slightly different groups of antibiotics (generations 1-4). Also, protein is not absorbed in the stomach at all, it's absorbed in the small intestine. Antibiotics do not change where different componencts of food are absorbed, they alter the intestinal flora and some are promotility agents making intestinal transit time quicker. In general, the macrolides are the only antibiotics that have clinical use as a promotility agent. Sorry, I just can't stomach incorrect information being passed on. It's like a game of telephone.

calliecritturs

Simplicef is sort of cephaexin to the next level -- it's a good drug but sort of more powerful than ceph, a/k/a Keflex. (which is a 'brand' name like Simplicef is a brand name of the 'bigger' antibiotic)  (but that's why the "ceph" -- they are related drugs). 

BUT both will be hard on the gut -- so give the med with food, and depending on what kind of raw feeding you do, you might go a bit easy on his tummy right now. 

See -- if you're doing only meat/bone raw, then that doesn't give much to follow thru the intestinal tract with the medicine.  You might want to give either pureed or cooked/mashed veg at the very least or even some mild grain (like oatmeal or very very cooked white rice) that will help the intestinal tract.

I have a dog with IBD, and antibiotics are always tricky.  We did have some minor digestive upsets (soft stools, and rumbly stomach) while on a 10 day course of Simplicef.  I also feed a raw diet, and continued to do so during the course of anitbiotics (I generally feed a pre-made raw product).  My guy is very sensitive to carbs (fruits/veggies) and cannot have grain of any sort---they really irritate his G-I tract, so if your dog is in any way sensitive to carbs, I would hesitate to add any to his diet while on an antibiotic.

The only major problem I had with the Simplicef, was the development of some nasty tear staining shortly after finishing the 10 day course.  I did up his dose of probiotics, but had a devil of a time getting rid of the staining--after a few months of this, we tried a short course of Tylosin---that did the trick.

Callie---I love the link you provided for tcvm----that was how we found our vet a few years back, and how we got a handle on his digestive issues.

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting she just 'add' or change her dog's diet, but that's also why I suggested the TCVM vet -- getting a vet who is onboard with such stuff is such a help.

My Dr. D (look at the "faculty" tab on that website -- Connie DiNatale is MY vet) is very very pro-raw.  It's what she does for hers.  But she knows for a lot of reasons I home-cook, so in the course of examining one of my kids, she'll say "Ok ... for this you might want to compensate with some asparagus; or ... let's see -- we need magnesium -- how about apricots?

Kelly, I didn't say it was more broad spectrum -- and it is somewhat more 'powerful' than Keflex and often given when there is a resistance to Keflex.  And when a dog isn't used to taking ANY antibiotics, any of this feels pretty 'big guns' when you're trying to figure out how to get the dog to tolerate it.  There are, of course, more powerful and stronger drugs.  But Simplecef is typically considered a step up from Keflex for various reasons.

And sorry, excuse me, I didn't realize you had your vet degree -- I'm going by what my vet has taught me about the absorption of protein from the stomach into the bloodstream.  It's a complicated process nonetheless - I didn't try to diminish that.

And you once again mis-read me.  "antibiotics that won't be restricted to the tummy" doesn't mean (and taken as a whole is pretty clear) that antibiotics in anyway 'change' where digestion takes place - it's simply a reference to where the antibiotic causes problems, and both Cephalexyn and Simplecef tend to be hard on the gut generally.  This is an infection in the eye -- obviously I didn't mean it was going to only work in the stomach. 

Callie I would re-read what you wrote, there is no misreading on my part. Again, I'd have serious concerns about a vet who has such poor knowledge of basic physiology. You don't need a vet degree to understand these things, in fact my 10 year old nephew is studying protein/carbohydrate/fat absorbsion in his biology class. His text book has acurate information. I don't have a vet degree, I have a medical degree which means I do know this subject very well since most of our research is done on animals. Would you prefer that no one ever questioned you? Wouldn't you rather share correct information? I don't understand why you get so defensive, no one expects you to be an authority in medical care. It's not a big deal.

I feed a pre-made raw diet. Pawnaturaw and Stella and Chewy's. Currently, I'm giving him the chicken. He does get a variety of foods though throughout the day. I gave Monty a little sweet potato this afternoon. So far so good. I just gave him his second dose. My vet indicated Simplicef was a very mild antibiotic given to dogs who are sensitive to antibiotics. It's a 14-day regimen but the vet would like at least 5 days to be given. I also have a medicated eye wipe that I'm using to keep the outside of his eye clean. I really hope this clears up.

Another question is how do I know these eyelashes have grown back? My vet says they can grow back but they're hard to see without a scope. So is any eye discharge normal or is any discharge an indication something is wrong?
 

 For our OP - if you want to find a vet who will be more sympathetic to your desire to titer, and who will have the medical and holistic knowledge you seem to seek, try finding a holistic vet in your area: http://www.ahvma.org/

 

kmarie

I feed Monty raw and my vet does not agree with that

This site lists several Wisconsin vets:  Pro-Raw Veterinarians

I hope that one of them is near you.