Why do people get judged when asking a breeding question????

Ok - so when you have to put to sleep an 11 week old puppy that you cared for and poured your life into....when you watched that puppies sibling suffer for days only to pass away durng the night- trying everything you could to possible make their lives just a bit more easy. Puppies that were bred because someone had the same views that you do 'cute + cute = even more cute.' Then you come talk to me. I would never, ever wish the amount of hurt that I went through with Heidi on anyone. But when people come up saying I have a super cute dog, and she has the best temperment, want to breed and have pups? I have the biggest problem with that. Did you look up how many chihuahuas are on petfinder?

I just cannot believe the ignorance of some people when it comes to animals.  I'm sorry if I am coming off harsh or rude, but this is something I feel extremely passionate about.Like I said before - I have no problem with responsible breeding to BETTER a breed. But not when it comes at the cost of risking the lives of your pets.

erica1989

I just cannot believe the ignorance of some people when it comes to animals. 

Mechanical Angel don't take that statement personally.  An individual's personal experience can cloud the bigger picture. 

Remember this statement and how false it was.  It was meant to scare.  Always independently check out what others say, you have a lot of time.

"One forum breeder bred a male to a much smaller female and allowed the male to tie multiple times over 3 weeks.  Not only could the oldest pups have been too large for the female to deliver, but other pups could have been up to 3 weeks premature.  The breeder was urged to spay her pet immediately, but didn't want to do that.  Never did find out if the female survived this very high risk pregnancy."

That statement was not directed at MA.....sorry for any confusion. It was directed at the human race in general. I worked the admissions office at the shelter for a few weeks, and I cannot tell you how many people NEED to surrender their animals. I just don't see the point in irresonsible breeding. I just don't.

erica1989

I just don't see the point in irresonsible breeding. I just don't.

Why is it irresponsible if the family commits to the lifelong care for the litter.  It seems you have more a problem with people rather than breeding the family pet?  Remember a responsible breeder can easily turn irresponsible in one situation and then turn back to being responsible, who is to know.

DPU

erica1989

I just don't see the point in irresonsible breeding. I just don't.

Why is it irresponsible if the family commits to the lifelong care for the litter.

It's not, but this happens so rarely, it's marginal. Honestly, I don't know one single person/family that has ever bred their own dogs and kept ALL of them their entire lives, and I know a LOT of people with dogs.

Yes, I do have a problem with people and their disposable actions towards 'loved family pets'.

What's irresponsible about this potential breeding is breeding a dog with known aggression to a dog that has no known medical background, and no know personality. HOW does that seem responsible to you? I know you regret not breeding your dane, and I'm sorry you feel that way. But have you ever watched a female dog give birth? WHAT about that seems like it would be FUN for your 'beloved pet?' Watching that momma struggle for hours - just to have 'cute' puppies? I'm sorry, I don't see the point. What would  MA be adding to the chihuahua breed, by breeding this dog that she barely knows? Granted - in the years coming she will know her pup better, and there's no problem with researching way ahead of time. But do tell me how it is responsible for this to occur? Just for cute puppies?!

DPU

Why is it irresponsible if the family commits to the lifelong care for the litter.  It seems you have more a problem with people rather than breeding the family pet?

But a responsible breeder doesn't just breed a family pet, even if it is a titled dog from a winning line, just to be breeding. And your supposition sounds like theory. Do you have any examples of families that bred their pets and were responsible for the litter for the life of that litter, even in the hands of owners who bought from them? Around here, people sell their family pet litters at the Home Depot parking lot out of the back of a truck. Free enterprise, yeah, but how many of the pets get back to the breeder when they are unwanted? Most of them will wind up at the Sherman Animal Shelter and will wind up across the entrance drive at Petco during the shelter's mobile adoption every Saturday. You have much more faith in byb's than maybe most of us do.

erica1989

Yes, I do have a problem with people and their disposable actions towards 'loved family pets'.

What's irresponsible about this potential breeding is breeding a dog with known aggression to a dog that has no known medical background, and no know personality. HOW does that seem responsible to you? I know you regret not breeding your dane, and I'm sorry you feel that way. But have you ever watched a female dog give birth? WHAT about that seems like it would be FUN for your 'beloved pet?' Watching that momma struggle for hours - just to have 'cute' puppies? I'm sorry, I don't see the point. What would  MA be adding to the chihuahua breed, by breeding this dog that she barely knows? Granted - in the years coming she will know her pup better, and there's no problem with researching way ahead of time. But do tell me how it is responsible for this to occur? Just for cute puppies?!

What does "have you ever watched a female dog give birth? WHAT about that seems like it would be FUN for your 'beloved pet?' Watching that momma struggle for hours - just to have 'cute' puppies? I'm sorry, I don't see the point." suppose to mean, no birth from any animal should ever take place.  Come on, give some meaningful advise given that Mechanical is not going to do anything for 4 years.  Today her dog does not have any medical history but in 4 years it will be a different story and I think the history will be very valuable in determining she will go forward.  Aggression?  Chi owners deal with this all the time, I'm told,  plus I think Mechanical represented this as rough play.  Besides aggression can be managed as so many dog owners do and CAT claims to cure aggression.  Just think of the wonderful dog progress that will be made in 4 years.

Why does Mechanical have to add anything to the breed.  In her eyes her dog is already perfect, unique to all others, and I am sure she wants others to have her experience.  Nothing wrong with that in my eyes as long as she commits to a lifelong care for the litter.

I am purely shocked at some of the things you are saying DPU. As someone heavily involved in resuce, I don't understand how you can condone such breeding when you know full well what goes on behind closed shelter doors. I'm stepping out of this thread now. I have made my opinions noted, and I hope that MA takes to heart what I have said.

MA - if you have any questions regarding what I have said in this thread, please send me an e-mail or message, and I will be more than happy to discuss what I have said here.

DPU

Besides aggression can be managed as so many dog owners do and CAT claims to cure aggression.  Just think of the wonderful dog progress that will be made in 4 years.

Okay, seriously. Certainly there are ways to *fix* aggression, and that is the first step to be taken in dealing with any aggressive dog. But covering up the symptoms does not change the DNA that dog possesses. No, there is no *aggressive gene*, but most types of aggression do have a heritability factor, and regardless of how you mask the aggression, it is utterly and completely irresponsible to breed a dog with known aggression, regardless of if you *fix* it in that dog. Not only might it be heritable, but so much can be passed on to puppies through simple behaviour and exposure.

Shimmer was originally meant to be a breeding prospect. She's not even an aggressive dog, but she was immediately removed from the breeding world because her personality is a little less than desirable for her breed. She can be, and has been, worked with, and is totally different than she used to be. But that doesn't change what her genetics made her, and it won't change what she might have passed on to puppies. Shimmer would have made a magnificent breeding bitch, and is still the dog on the front page of my parents' website, but here she is today, spayed and living life as a wonderful family member.

Now, certain types of aggression can be expected in intact animals. Aggression or competition between sexually intact males in the presence of females? Considered pretty normal, even if not always ideal. Those same dogs trying to fight every dog in the dog show? Not acceptable, regardless of sexual status. Any type of aggression that is not caused directly by sexual encounters and competition, and even some that ARE, have no place being bred and risk producing more puppies with behavioral issues.

DPU

 Aggression?  Chi owners deal with this all the time, I'm told,  plus I think Mechanical represented this as rough play. Besides aggression can be managed as so many dog owners do and CAT claims to cure aggression.  Just think of the wonderful dog progress that will be made in 4 years.

Well heck then, breed away.  In fact, more pit bull breeding too!  'Cuz pit bull owners deal with this all the time too!  And with the increased use of puppy prozac, we can just dope them up anyway!

DPU

 

Why does Mechanical have to add anything to the breed.  In her eyes her dog is already perfect, unique to all others, and I am sure she wants others to have her experience.  Nothing wrong with that in my eyes as long as she commits to a lifelong care for the litter.

Using that logic, I think I should breed Indie.  He's perfect and is going to be a great therapy dog.  He only has a little hip dysplasia, but the unique experience of having a dog like him is something I think others should share.  And I'll commit to lifelong care for his litter too if the buyers (NOT ADOPTERS-BUYERS, let's be clear about the motives here and not sugar coat things) don't want to deal with the expenses involved if any of his pups who don't pan out for them.  The pain and suffering of the dogs involved are secondary to my desire to share my experience of loving this 'GREAT' dog who will bring lots of joy to others when he starts therapy work!

   I need to go ice my head now.....

Kim_MacMillan

Okay, seriously. Certainly there are ways to *fix* aggression, and that is the first step to be taken in dealing with any aggressive dog. But covering up the symptoms does not change the DNA that dog possesses. No, there is no *aggressive gene*, but most types of aggression do have a heritability factor, and regardless of how you mask the aggression, it is utterly and completely irresponsible to breed a dog with known aggression, regardless of if you *fix* it in that dog. Not only might it be heritable, but so much can be passed on to puppies through simple behaviour and exposure.

My goodness, more doomsday display.  So thats your answer when Mechical said "He can be a bit agressive but only in play with other dogs. He LOVES!! humans.".  You are starting to sound territorial and protective of your domain.

BCMixs

Using that logic, I think I should breed Indie.  He's perfect and is going to be a great therapy dog.  He only has a little hip dysplasia, but the unique experience of having a dog like him is something I think others should share.  And I'll commit to lifelong care for his litter too if the buyers (NOT ADOPTERS-BUYERS, let's be clear about the motives here and not sugar coat things) don't want to deal with the expenses involved if any of his pups who don't pan out for them.  The pain and suffering of the dogs involved are secondary to my desire to share my experience of loving this 'GREAT' dog who will bring lots of joy to others when he starts therapy work!

That is your choice and only a choice that you can make given your observation of the dog's health.  No one can tell you what to do.  I have lived with a HD dog and I have placed a HD dog.  Me, personally I would not breed.  Drizzle I should have bred.