Why do people get judged when asking a breeding question????

    • Gold Top Dog

    Admin speaking..

    1.  This thread has gone insanely off topic.  

    2.  The sniping, personally directed barbs and sarcasm stop NOW.

    I have proven in recent days that I have no issue whatsoever with editing 6 pages of posts in one fell swoop.  If the next post to this thread, and every subsequent one, is not on topic and civil, I will do that again, starting from page 1.  

    Thanks. 

    • Gold Top Dog

     Back to the OP - here is why I think YOU specifically should not breed your dog.  You mentioned in your initial posts to this forum you got it from a neighbor who had a litter.  I have not found any indication your dog is registered or comes from particularly good lines. 

    Also, if you look at petfinder, there are currently 5545 chihuahuas needing homes.  The world isn't hurting for chihuahuas and there are plenty already in this world who don't have homes and need them.  For their sake, I ask that you don't breed Possum, get her spayed, love her to death and maybe, possibly, adopt one of those chihuahuas in Nebraska who need a home.  Please encourage your neighbor to do the same.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

     

    Mechanical Angel

    I might be looking to breed Possum in like 4 years. Its just a thought. Im not sure yet though. Just looking for info and what people think.

    My gut says "no".  This is a dog from your neighbour's litter, so that says to me the odds aren't stacked in your favour.  There are a LOT of "neighbours" in the world, but the people with time, resources, knowledge and experience to actually do the job properly are far fewer and far between. 

    If you are set on it, then do more research, besides internet forums (which are just likely to frustrate you anyway as you won't hear the answers you want to hear).  Research her breed, research her lines, research breeding - for example you need to know about genetics, you need to know about whelping problems - little dogs have more of them, although larger dogs have their fair share... 

    http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeding/breeder2.html

    Get a mentor.  That's a MUST.  Get a mentor now and spend the next few years researching your butt off, get a few objective opinions on Possum as she develops, from knowledgeable and ethical people (not just people on your road that think she is pretty or what have you)...  Maybe by the time Possum is ready you will be too.  Or maybe you will still want to breed but decide against breeding Possum because she doesn't turn out as well as you hoped and is not breeding-quality.

    As the song says - if you're gonna do it, do it right.  And the first rule is of course, to first do no harm.  

    • Gold Top Dog

    Possum is breeding quality. She is a blond chi and she has a GREAT!! personality. She is the sweetest thing I have ever met. I am thinking about  a black and tan chi who is 1 yr old right now and is my friends dog. He can be a bit agressive but only in play with other dogs. He LOVES!! humans. I will probably breed in 3 years.

    • Gold Top Dog

    She is a very sweet temperant so she can offer that. I will not show her.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I think its ok Benedict. I like to read other peoples stories and there own personal stuff so please let them be off topic.

    • Gold Top Dog

    but.... she's not even 6 weeks old yet.....

    temperments change in dogs once they hit approximently 2 years of age. That's when they reach full maturity.

    I would NOT breed. Esp. with a dog that has a strain of aggression - yea, he loves people, but how many people really want to take on the responsibilty of a DA dog. I know I wouln't. I could manage it, but a dog with DA issues is not right for my home, nor is it right for many other homes. It takes a real special person to manage a dog with DA.

    And...just being a blonde chi doesn't mean she will produce blonde pups. In fact, blonde chis are not rare at all - I don't see how this is justification to breed her. What will she add to the breed that is not already there? Have there been health tests on her parents, grandparents, and most of all - her?

    This is the situation that I have the biggest problem with. I have a cute dog, you have a cute dog, let's breed and have cute puppies......pull up petfinder.com. type in Chihuahua for your breed, and just LOOK at how many come up! Just think about how many of those chis will be put down because you are breeding cute little puppies. I just don't think it's fair, nor ethical as far as responsible breeding goes.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Ok that hurt.

    • Silver

    The reason I am not willing to just let mother nature take her course and let two random dogs breed together, is because I am not tough and uncaring like mother nature. If one puppy in 100 in a certain line is born with some eye disease that makes them go blind, mother nature really does not care. Enough puppies with good vision will be born to carry on the line. In my breed Progressive Retinal Atrophy is in our gene pool, and mother nature REALLY does not care about eliminating that one because in our version of the disease symptoms do not appear until the dog is old enough to have reproduced several times.

    Mother nature does not care if dogs get crippling hip arthritis when they are older. As long as they survived long enough to reproduce, mother nature is happy.

    I, on the other hand, care a whole lot about each and every puppy I produce, and about the families that are investing their love in this puppy. I will make sure that there is absolutely no chance of any puppy I produce having PRA. I will do what I can to avoid producing puppies with hip dysplasia. And many other issues.

    The main reason that I tell people that you need to go with a breeder who is dedicated to their breed and has been involved with and learning from other breeders for years is the knowledge that person has. It really has nothing to do with color patterns, length of tail, etc. (Well, I do care when picking out a puppy for a show dog, but beyond that it really does not matter.) Let me give you two examples. And yes it is getting closer to rocket science all the time. ;-)

    In my breed, PRA (progressive retinal atrophy) makes dogs gradually go blind. Symptoms may not be noticed until the dog is five, six, seven years old. Luckily, we now have a genetic test available to screen our dogs. But in Samoyeds (and Siberians) PRA is an X-linked simple recessive trait. To understand how this works you need to have a good working knowledge of genetics. With most simple recessive genes, you just need to avoid breeding two carriers together. Not so with PRA in Sams. Because it is X-linked, you can never breed a female who is just a carrier, even to a tested clear male. However, you could breed an affected male to a clear female. Here is how it works.

    The chromosome that determines sex are referred to as the X and Y chromosomes. A female is XX, a male is XY. When an egg and a sperm come together, each one has a half set of chromosomes. Each set finds its match and they zip them selves together so everything matches up just so. The mother always contributes an X chromosome. If the sperm carries an X, then the two Xs zip together and the puppy is a girl. If the sperm carries a Y chromosome, then the X and the Y chromosome zip together and you get a boy. Except notice that there is a portion of the X chromosome without a matching set of genes from the Y chromosome. When something is an X-linked trait, the gene is on this section of the chromosome.

    When a female produces and egg and a male produces sperm, their DNA unzips itself again. (okay a gross simplification but this is the end result.) If you breed a female who is a carrier for X-linked PRA, half of her eggs will carry the X chromosome with the defective gene, half will carry the good copy. Then they get matched up with the male DNA, who is clear of PRA. Half his sperm carry an X chromosome and half a Y chromosome. The ones from the father with an X match up with the mother's X to make the girl puppies. Half the girls have a defective gene from the mother and are carriers. Half got the good gene from the mother and are clear. But none will go blind.

    Now what with the boy puppies from that same breeding? Half have a defective gene from mom, half do not. But they are boys and have received a Y chromosome from dad. So there is no good copy of the gene to stop the disease from being expressed. So statistically half the boy puppies from the breeding will be affected with PRA.

    Now how about breeding a male with the gene? Males can not be carriers, they can only be affected or clear. They have only one X chromosome and the gene is carried where the Y chromosome he has no corresponding gene. If you breed an affected male to a female who has been tested to be clear and not a carrier here is what you get. All the puppies who get his X chromosome get the defective gene. However, they will all be girls and get a good copy from mom. So all girls will be carriers. All the boy puppies he sires get the Y chromosome from dad, which does not carry the gene at all. So the boys are all clear. And no puppies will suffer from the disease.

    Example number two from Samoyeds. The gene for dwarfism exists in our breed. Dwarfism comes with some serious and sad health implications and we really need to avoid it. For some reason, dogs who are carriers of the gene will have retinal folds as a puppy. This can be seen by a veterinary opthamologist if examined at the right age (about 8-9 weeks). Not all, or even most, retinal folds are associated with the gene for dwarfism, but some are. Retinal folds usually flatten out as the puppy grows. So say you have a female puppy you want to breed and she had retinal folds at 8 weeks but now has passed her eye exam, no folds. I would make sure to look for a sire who had been examined as a puppy and had no retinal folds.

    I am only familiar with Samoyeds, but I am sure that every breed has their quirks. How do you find this stuff out? It's not published in any books, if you were lucky you could have learned about the PRA test from the optigen website. The folds/dwarfism link is not so easy to find. The only way you learn this kind of stuff is by hanging around with other Samoyed breeders, going to the nationals and the seminars at the nationals, being part of a discussion list for breeders of Samoyeds. In other words show breeders.

    If someone is breeding pets and has and uses this kind of knowledge then I have no problem with them. Never heard of one though.

    • Gold Top Dog

    If the puppy is only 6 weeks old then you cannot even say she's breeding/show quality. At that age, there's breeding/show potential because things can change as she matures. What is her pedigree like? What does she have to offer the breed that cannot be found sitting in a shelter or rescue?

    • Silver

    Mechanical Angel

    Possum is breeding quality. She is a blond chi and she has a GREAT!! personality. She is the sweetest thing I have ever met. I am thinking about  a black and tan chi who is 1 yr old right now and is my friends dog. He can be a bit agressive but only in play with other dogs. He LOVES!! humans. I will probably breed in 3 years.

    Well, you better start learning now! I wish I knew more about Chis to offer you advice. One problem that I do know about is luxating patellas. This is where their knee cap slips out of place. When she is older she needs to be tested for the degree of slippage in her knee cap. The male too. To learn more you can google luxating patellas and also go to www.offa.org

    I know that Chis can have a problem with open fontenells (spelling? I have no idea) where certain portions of their skull does not close up, leaving their brain open to injury. You need to do some research on the and the genetics involved.

    You really need to learn from someone with years of experience in the breed.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Mechanical Angel
    She is a blond chi and she has a GREAT!! personality. She is the sweetest thing I have ever met

     

    Some of this is subjective. What does Possum have to bring to the chi breed? Are her parents show champions that have been health tested?

    Don't take this offensively, i'm not trying to knock your dog, never met her. But, my Kaiser is a gorgeous black GSD who has an awesome personality and is more intelligent than most dogs i've met in my life. Yet, he is NOT breeding quality, and i don't care if i could 5 grand out of each of his progeny, breeding him would've been out of the question.

    What is your main motive to breed? What are you trying to accomplish? Just because a dog is sweet and has a good personality does not mean it's breeding quality. And i agree, at 6 weeks you just cannot tell.  

    Plus, breeding is much more complicated than it may look on the surface. And terribly expensive. Be prepared to drop a huge sum of money to get Possum health tested after she is 2 years old, and then there's the cost that comes along with raising the pups. 

    I just really hope you will take the time to listen to our suggestions, and i hope you make the right decision.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Mechanical Angel

    Possum is breeding quality. She is a blond chi and she has a GREAT!! personality. She is the sweetest thing I have ever met. I am thinking about  a black and tan chi who is 1 yr old right now and is my friends dog. He can be a bit agressive but only in play with other dogs. He LOVES!! humans. I will probably breed in 3 years.

     

    And what can you do or say to guarantee that the aggression won't end up in all the pups?  What will you do if this aggression shows up in the pups very early on?  Think it can't happen?  I know a shelter worker who had a very bad day after euthanizing 13 pit bull puppies because every last one of them were too aggressive to adopt.  Do you know what a liability a dog aggressive dog is?  Can't board them most places, if it bites and injures another dog, you can be sued, taking them to vets must be a joy as you try to keep them from attacking the other dogs.  Is that what you want to put out into the world?  You clearly think that the world is lacking in blonde chis with sweet personalities and seem to be set in your decision. 

    • Gold Top Dog
    At the LEAST, Chihuahuas and other toy dogs have a lot of birthing troubles. Emergency C-sections and spays are not too uncommon. They're just so small.... Even very experienced toy breeders will lose not only puppies but may lose mom's as well. Breeding toys is expensive and very dangerous to the mom if the breeder does not know what they are doing.
    • Gold Top Dog

    All these scare tactics dooms day scenarios.  Geez.  I am sorry for your hurt.  It is unfair to place shelter dog situation solely on your shoulders.  You have got 4 years.  Closely observe your dog and the other dog for its behavior, its temperment,  and most importantly its health.  Talk with your vet.  Ask for reading material.  Start bringing up the subject in conversations that may stir someone to adopt the puppies.  If you decide to go ahead with a litter, make a lifelong commitment to see to it the pups are taken of, and honor that commitment. 

    Remember, no one can tell you what to do and whatever your decision is (there are two choices), you are responsible.