Eko's mysterious illness (NOT a CCL tear)

Oh poor handsome Eko!  I have no information but I would likely want to see a specialist as he has soo much growing left to do that I would be unsure how to progress for the best in the LONG term.

Also I am very leary of pain meds  - I tend to use the less than the prescription states.  They can be so hard on the liver/kidney.

Little Eko we are sorry to hear you are in pain.  Rest up and heal fast gorgeous! 

I hope folks read your post .... I know I'm in the huge minority about not liking dog parks, but man -- the risk is way up there.  I know .. I'm the weirdo who rescues dogs who are already sick/hurt .. but accidents happen.  Too often sometimes.

Arthritis isn't the end of the world -- I've lived with it my whole life.  Don't fear it -- there is SO much you can do to offset it.  And a repaired cruciate isn't going to be substantially more prone to arthritis than anything else.

I probably would be looking at a vet school rather than a specialist.  Your costs will be way less, but even more -- it's the vet schools that are doing all the cutting edge stuff and know what's truly "the best" thing to do today.  Then for healing acupuncture can truly help SO much. 

Big decisions, I know ... don't let the whole thing overwhelm you.  Take the decisions one at a time.  They are doing awesome stuff in cruciate surgery now, and from there you figure out what you'll do later.

If he doing pain meds -- do some milk thistle.  That will help a lot to mitigate any damage to the liver/kidney.  Just get a good quality one, and give the adult human dose 2-3 times a day.  It's benign -- it won't hurt and can help a LOT.  Even the AKC has had studies done on "silimarin" this year (the latin name for milk thistle).

OMG As another Ridgeback owner I soooo feel your pain really I do... BUT please understand there is sooo much still in the air on this, as Callile said try a Vet School first they are awesome and then think about some really interesting alternative things... for example rather than thinking you won't be able to recondition him after his crate rest think swiming.. low impact but wonderfully toning. I prefer to keep ALL pain meds at a minimum, my mentors taught me if you medicate they can reinjure or increase injury, if you barely medicate they will self limit and only use the injured limb as they KNOW it is safe and healing.  Please keep all of us posted Mr Elko is so very cute!!

we'll be pulling for him!!

Hugs Bonita and Pack of Bwana

Thanks guys.

About the dog park - I am definitely lukewarm on dog parks but we have a great group in the morning. I have never seen a dog take a hit like Eko did. A crash here and there, but mild. The lab that hit him isn't a usual at the park. A neighboring city's dog park is closed for renovation, and so we've had some visitors. Ironically, it was a really quiet morning with only a few dogs in the park. Sigh.

We have an appointment with a specialist, but our "specialist" is part of a specialty vet school hospital. The surgeon is the same guy who operated on Sasha's leg when she had an issue a few years ago. He did a fantastic job.

We will see what the ortho vet thinks tomorrow morning. I will cross my fingers that he says its all a mistake, no tearing of the cruciate. "Bed rest" and rehab ... ugh. Been there done that with Sasha. She had to have a pin in her leg for 2 months, poor dog.

I would absolutely see a specialist. We know how emotionally invested you are in this puppy.

Do some research on the TPLO surgery if it is torn. Dog have returned to 95-100% function with a successful TPLO.

I really hope it is a partial tear. Best wishes for an easy recovery.

Edited to say I'm glad you are seeing a specialist. Let us know what he/she says.

We saw the specialist this morning. He says the injury is much more painful than CCL tears are, and doesn't think the x rays mean a CCL problem. He wants to do a cat scan on Monday to check for bone chips or other strange goings-on. He ran off a list of possibilities, but a bone chip or a meniscus injury are top on his list.

My poor bubba is NOT happy with confinement. He is already giving me a hard time about going into his crate, or being led on leash. grumblegrumble ridgebacks....

Thanks for the support. I'll update on Monday after the appointment. 

Still thinking of you guys - I suppose the bone chip scenario would be best?

Thanks for the update and I'll be back in tomorrow to see where you are up to

K 

 I feel like I'm living in an episode of House. Dog House, I guess. (Sorry, couldn't resist).

The cat scan did not show anything. It is being sent to a second Dr. for review, to make sure, but right now it doesn't look like a bone chip or trauma injury.

In the hurt knee, AND the other knee, they found elevated white blood cell counts. Both knees. The front ankles were normal.

WTF!!! Currently we're looking at three ideas: vaccine related immune response, ideopathic autoimmune polyarthritis, or Lyme disease. Its been 30 days since his last vax (rabies) and the Dr. thought that was too long to be likely. Lyme disease exists around here, but it is pretty rare. They will be testing for the lyme disease markers.

To add to the hmmmm factor - at around 9-10 weeks, Eko began intermittent limping, on either leg. Never showed any signs of pain or discomfort. This went on (and off) for three weeks or so. We took him to the vet and it didn't seem to be anything. He hasn't limped in the last 2 months.

I just don't know what to think. He's in high spirits now, using the bad leg somewhat and full of puppy trouble. Is this an immune thingie? Has he been dealing with it all along? Could it be Lyme???

I guess time will tell but my head is spinning and I'm really tired from 2 nights of lseeping on the living room floor next to his crate.SO he wouldn't be lonely. LOL. Yes, we're that dog crazy and pathetic around here.

WOW don't know what to say. I wanted to respond to this thread as I have experience cranial cruciate injuries (2 in one dog) but since it doesn't sound CCL you may not need what I can offer. However my Maxine's first injury happened EXACTLY as your described your dogs. She was T-boned like a car through an intersection by our other dog... a lab. Right after it happened Max got up, lifted her leg as if to say "ow" but walked home just fine. She did not really limp any more than normal for a long time. She was older and we suspected she had some arthritis so some soreness was not out of the norm. Then she started having problems extending her leg to the ground after getting up from lying down. That is when we had her checked.

Dog_ma

I guess time will tell but my head is spinning and I'm really tired from 2 nights of lseeping on the living room floor next to his crate.SO he wouldn't be lonely. LOL. Yes, we're that dog crazy and pathetic around here.

I don't think you are crazy!  I was so hoping this would be good news- I've certainly been thinking of poor Eko.  I hope they find out quickly what is wrong and that it is easily taken care of!  In the mean time we have you in our thoughts and are sending our best healing vibes

Keep us posted 

oh my...I'm SO sorry to hear this. What a roller coaster! Poor puppy boy.

His knees are then inflamed if I read this right? gosh that sounds owie-ish.

All the best figuring this out...you mentioned his size when I posted about Cleo's weight and I really wonder if he is just growing too fast either thru some genetic thing or otherwise. Has the breeder any input on any of her other dogs/pups getting this issue?

rwbeagles

All the best figuring this out...you mentioned his size when I posted about Cleo's weight and I really wonder if he is just growing too fast either thru some genetic thing or otherwise. Has the breeder any input on any of her other dogs/pups getting this issue?

I haven't heard from his breeder yet. I emailed her when we thought it was a CCL tear. I'll wait until the Lyme test comes back to email her again.

He could be growing too fast, but it would have to be genetics. I keep him on the edge of too skinny. His dad is really huge, so his growth does seem in line for being bigger than average for a ridgeback. He's 60 lbs right now, well proportioned and lean.

Now that it is morning and I am a bit more composed, what we know is going on is this: there is fluid in both knees. One knee has more, which is what has been causing the pain. This fluid has elevated white blood cell counts, which indicates an immune system response.  There is no evidence of traumatic injury to the knees. So *something* had made his immune system get all pissed off in his knees. What that is,  is still a mystery. It may always be a mystery. "Ideopathic."

Meanwhile, Mr. Eko is too cute for his own good. When he gets out to potty or spend a few minutes sniffing the backyard, he likes to grab something and dare us to chase him. COME ON MOM!!! PLAY WIF ME!

The one good side of ideopathic immune mediated polyarthritis (say that three times quickly) is that you don't need to keep a dog extra calm. After some rest, they can determine their own activity levels because it isn't like they make an injury worse.

The bad news is that if this is what we're dealing with, there is a high chance it will appear on and off through out his life. Levels of treatment range from pain meds and rest to steroids to chemo drugs. That's a bit sobering.

I am cautiously thinking he does indeed have polyarthritis. It fits with a whole bunch of small details. BUT I say cautiously because every dr. visit so far has led us down a new path.

In the meantine, Eko says if any dogs want to sneak in for a playdate while mom is at school today, he'd be delighted to serve dog biscuits and slobbery water. He plays a wicked game of chase.
 

Heard from the vet. It is pretty good news! The white blood cell counts were too low to be a full polyarthritis deal. It looks like a temporary immune reaction. And we had forgotten that a week and half ago Eko was micro chipped.  Micro chip = foreign body. That very well could have triggered the response.

When they reconstructed the cat scan in 3d, they saw a very small bruise/defect on the growth plate of the leg that has been hurting. Probably caused by the crash at the dog park. That bruise should heal by itself.

So: Microchip, immune response, small trauma to left leg, left leg has bigger immune response.

We've been told to rest him for 2 weeks - the first week very restricted. In two weeks they'll look at the fluid again. The vet is prescribing a sedative because Eki is in full force. Jumping, running, and devilishly playful.

I am so relieved. We were looking at so many nasty possibilities. HOORAY!!!

We will definitely be cautious with future vaxes though, since we know his immune system is touchy.  

woohoo that's great news!  Callie has some ways to strengthen the immune system that she recommends for demodex dogs may be getting started on that while he is so young would be a good idea.  Just a thought.

But whew I am relieved too!