Billy's new 'adventure' - bit scarey & long *sigh* (Callie)

   I know that between you, DR. B, and DR. D, you'll figure this out. In the meantime, give that sweet Billy Boy some smooches for me. I'll be praying for him. ((Hugs)) for you.

kpwlee I think you're right -- both Dr. B and I were convinced at least one of the things was 'causing' another.

thanks guys, I just read Billy his "mail" and he sends a ton of tail waggin!!!

Billy, I don't know if you know it or not, but you've got one AWESOME mom! There aren't a lot of moms in the world who will listen to their puppers like yours does. Emma and Teenie say they're glad you got to go to TWO vets (what fun! Double cookies and pats!), and that you're feeling some better. I'm *really* glad you got to get fixed up, too. Go give your mom a BIG KISS and have fun going back to the vet next week. 

 I don't have any advice, but wanted you and Billy to know everyone here will be thinking of him.

I, too, have wondered about the UTI causing back pain.

I bet you are so glad to be home tonight, Callie. We're still sending you good thoughts and prayers!

Nancy

nfowler

I, too, have wondered about the UTI causing back pain.

Just a thought here, if Billy has had this UTI for a few days, is it possible that the UTI ascended and now he's got sore and inflamed kidneys?  That would certainly cause back pain.  All the needling and pulse listening in the world won't cure that.

Either way I'm sending good healing vibes your way. 

Callie, if I spent the money that you just have to be spending on vet bills, but I still had a dog as sick as yours...I don't know...I guess I would seriously be rethinking...

Good point, Xerxes.

 And Billy? Grr. That's all I have to say.

nfowler

And Billy? Grr. That's all I have to say.

Yeah, okay.  Rereading my post, I certainly wasn't very clear.  I left a lot open to misunderstanding.

 What I was trying to say is, if what you are doing isn't working, you better try something else.

I hate writing sometimes. I love it but I hate it. And we all type fast here and really, it would be great if we were all in a room together but we get what we get.

I'm with you, Billy. And, actually, I know you and Callie have known each other for awhile so I was a little shocked by your comment.

But I get you now.

Billy has always been prone to UTI's since I've had him and one of the major side effects of the drug he took to get thru the IMHA *caused* them. 

IMHA is always a threat -- it can recur and kill.  But it also pushes up the incidence of anything *else* auto-immunen.  So you have to avoid, if at all possible, ALL the known triggers for auto-immune diseases.  Like ... antibiotics.  and even the vets up at UF urge you to use the least "serious" treatment/antibiotic FIRST.  So they have encouraged us to use the herbals first. (yes, even the 'regular' vets)

We'd caught the UTI and he'd been treated for it -- but one of the reasons I took him TO the vet was to have that re-checked.  The symptoms were subsiding but I didn't think it had 'gone'. I was right.

It doesn't appear that it has move into the kidneys -- but any time you get infection/inflammation it CAN spread.  But typically if the kidneys are inflamed you'll get pain, and there was no pain in the kidney area.  However -- that's why we jumped to Clavamox.  It's a drug that we've had success with in the past treating the UTIs and yet it's not a drug that is high on the list of "problem-causers" in the auto-immune realm. 

Billy -- this dog isn't seen by just one vet.  And we don't use *just* holistic medicine.  It was the 'regular' vet I went to FIRST here.  I only ADDED the holistic vet Thursday to help the back pain MORE than what the regular vet felt he could do.  The needles and exam weren't in lieu of traditional vet care -they were in addition TO.  In this particular case, they were specifically used for pain management.

I'm going to add another paragraph here -- JUST so I'm not misunderstood.  These two vets -- Dr Bailey and Dr. DiNatale -- they aren't in the same practice.  (not even in the same city nor county)  They just happen to be two really good vets we use.  Dr. Bailey has been my primary vet for about 8 years now (I followed him thru two other practices and now into his own practice).  I found Dr. DiNatale thru a referral from the University of Florida vet school (and yeah, she's the holistic vet).

We also use the team of vets up at UF and there's another pratice here in Orlando I use when they have to be seen on Saturday.  And I run my behind off to make sure each vet is kept "in the loop".  and trust me -- every single visit and every single step David and I evaluate this together.  Most definitely NOT a one-person show.

Xerxes

Just a thought here, if Billy has had this UTI for a few days, is it possible that the UTI ascended and now he's got sore and inflamed kidneys?  That would certainly cause back pain.  All the needling and pulse listening in the world won't cure that.

That's what the antibiotics ARE for.  However -- needling kidney points WILL, for absolute sure, support the healing of the kidneys and reduce pain.  And "listening to pulses" helps diagnostically to figure out where the ultimate source of infection is. 

But absolutely, it's more than possible that part of the back pain is because of the internal inflammation - in fact, that's what we're figuring.  However -- his back was 'out' and that's not at all uncommon for Billy.  But the back inflammation seems to be in the same spot it was sore last year after he tried to play 'puppy' and misjudged his running jump into the car.  But that's a place really close to the kidneys so I'm not surprised it's ALL inflamed. 

He's still sore today -- I did a lot of massage on him when he first got up and I will again after his supper.  The spot is still 'warm' to the touch.

Callie, I don't know what to tell you, but I'm wondering from my own experience if it isn't a kidney stone or possibly parathyroid gland.I started having bladder infections, flu-like symtoms, all different things going on. It was'nt until I saw a endochrinologist that he found out it was my PARA-THYROID gland that was throwing everything off,including risk of possible heart attack.I had it operated on twice,because I still was gettting kidney stones,but  it still didn't take care of the problem. Turns out I'm prone to get kidney stones. What I'm saying is, for one , the PARA-THYROID gland controls all the stuff going on in your body--swollen lymph nodes, calcium,potassium,heart,etc.    And I know any time I started having problems with kidney stones, for weeks before, I would have flu- like symptoms, get over that , get a cold, get a sore throat and than feel fine. Next thing I know, out of nowhere,full blown kidney-stone attack, starting with dull pain in the back-side area. Sometimes it would pass and sometimes the pain got unbearable,resulting in emergency room.I don't know if it is the kidney or para-thyroid gland throwing everything off(do dogs have para--thyroid glands), but I just thought I'd throw that out there.  Praying for Billy and you.

I'll mention that to Dr. D on Tuesday.  Billy takes thyroid supplement and endocrine and adrenal stuff is always a "possible" because of the long-term immune-suppressors he was on for the IMHA.  Those create a "Cushings-like" atmosphere in the body (altho that's mostly renal) -- but all of this is a possible.

If it doesn't appear that this is on the mend with the antibiotics, we'll do whatever is necessary (yeah, including a trip to Gainesville if that's what it takes). 

Dr. B and I talked on Thursday about the fact that all the drugs Billy has had to take (which he is OFF all of those now) has aged him and yet it still affects everything.

Dogs can be as prone to endocrine things as people (and they can be tough to diagnose). 

I don't want to blow this out of proportion tho -- he's not acting really sick -- we're just trying to get a handle on something *before* it flares up into something major. 

any time you have a dog (or a human) who has been thru a really difficult disease process -- it changes everything.  It changes how you approach things. 

Because *I* am a person who has had life-long health challenges I probably take a whole lot more of this in stride than many folks would.  Someone mentioned above what we've spent on vet bills.  Well, yeah -- and right along with that are MY medical bills -- so I'm not carrying a Coachman purse, and a boat isn't even on our list of "things that would be nice".  But it's just our choices vs. what others would do.  Shoot, we TOOK Billy 3 1/2 years ago, **because** we thot he was deaf from ear problems -- shoot, we figured at least we KNEW how to deal with those.

As it turns out the ears have been the 'easy' part. 

but Maisysmom -- this is exactly the kind of input I was looking for -- and I will for sure talk to Dr. D about it.  It's a good thot!!!

Not a single word of wisdom, but....

Hi Billy.  Thor, Sheba, Shadow, Thunder, Theo and Tyler and me and even the two cats, are all sending really healthy vibes and prayers too that you start feeling LOTS better really soon.

Keep right on eating good and wagging that tail for mom and dad!