Grooming/Shaving a working Pyr?

"the thing i find funny is :why get a large furry house dog and then shave it because its too furry? well that goes for any furry dog really"

The reason for many is because these breeds never HAD the coat they have today.  For example a Newfoundland, you see them in the show ring with big coats and scissored.  About a decade or more ago Newf's had a nice wash and wear coat that was not hard to care for.  Golden's for working purpose should not have a lot of coat. But, in the show ring they have a ton of coat.  Basically dog shows are ruining good working dogs as they are breeding for flash and no longer for purpose.      

Cant and wont argue with that logic Cally. i've been saying the same thing for some time now.

ever look at the EARLY saint bernards?

  1914

Now look at the ones we have today. YOWZA!!
 

Pyrenean Mountan Dog of yore..

and todays

i dont really understand all the extra fluff... many breeders simply breed to win in the beauty pageant and nothing more.  a  Springer Spaniel breeder at last springs dog show so much as told me so when i remarked on the  LACK of freckles on her dog. Some big name breeder's dog with no freckles won first place so everyone is following suit in their breeding programs.

sorry for the tangent... we now return you to your regularly scheduled topic...

 I understand the purpose of the coat and its thickness... Brit, i know you got the best breed available to guard your live stock so i'm not talking at you..

i just dont understand the premise behind buying a giant(or small) floofy breed to keep in your house and then shave it bald... like so..

Oh the HUMANITY!! lol

i think some woolly breeds were sheered at the same time as the sheep they guarded.. i have heard it was mostly to keep the coat maintenance down and i only assume it was done in the spring - i dont raise sheep so i dontknow when they sheer them- but i've known friends that have owned beautiful rough collies and have them shaved.. the perfect looking Lassie ending up looking like Wylie Coyote.. i owned a colliexsheltie with a FULL coat and never once had a problem with matting... i hardly ever brushed her because she just didnt need it, and only trimmed around her tail because the full coat would catch poop - the biggest problem i had with Maggie was she liked to play in mud..

i dunno i'm just gonna shut up now lol 

No, I completely agree with your post, Dumdog- in alot of breeds, especially working breeds, you see a HUGE difference in show-bred dogs and working-bred dogs.

Chief comes from a long line of working Pyrs. They aren't registered, but they are purebred- and his breeders have had those lines in their family since I THINK the 50's- I have his lineage and family tree, it just isn't on AKC paper. His particular breeder doesn't like kennel club registrations for working dogs, for a lot of reasons- but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

But in Chief's case, it's been "best working dog to best working dog" for generations- with no thought to show conformation other than whether or not the dogs stayed sound enough to do their jobs. Chief's parents look EXACTLY like that old style Pyr you posted, and Chief looks like that too- he has a much shorter, curlier coat than the show-bred Pyr. He's also going to be a bit smaller and less massive in general that most pet/show bred Pyrs I've seen- and a lot morer agile and athletic than they are, too.

We've got a really, really good dog in Chief- from some of the forums I'm on, it seems that most people have trouble finding Pyrs that TRULY come from working lines- and many of them have to buy show/companion bred dogs to raise as flock guardians. Many of them never make the cut, and many of those that do don't stop killing the stock and start working until they're a year or two of age. Chief was actively working by the time he was 4 months old. He's truly an awesome dog, and IMO how a REAL Pyrenees should be.

You can see his shorter, curlier coat in these shots:

His parents were really not that fluffy/hairy at all- it seems like chief and his parents have an entirely different texture to their coats than a show-bred Pyr.

Is a puppy Pyr coat different from an adult?  Just asking because I know some breeds will blow puppy coat and the adult coat will much different.  If I recall Chief is still pretty young and may still have puppy coat?  Just a thought.

 he is a handsome fella that's for sure!

lol maybe use a curry comb to brush him down?   just kidding!

Lhasa Lvr

Is a puppy Pyr coat different from an adult?  Just asking because I know some breeds will blow puppy coat and the adult coat will much different.  If I recall Chief is still pretty young and may still have puppy coat?  Just a thought.

 

I'm going to venture a guess and say yes. Misha's half Pyr and his coat had very different stages from three months to six months and even now. But he has been shaved. At three months old, Misha was a giant poof ball and his fur was very soft and stuck straight out from him. His coat settled down later, but was too thick for him to be playing (not working, and he has plenty of shade) in the yard. His coat's about five months back in now and it looks a lot like Chief's does. I know that Misha's coat has some serious growing left to do, because he has almost none of his overcoat on his back .His mother's breeding and Misha's father's mixes affect his coat, so I can't say for sure his coat changes weren't do to other breeds.

On the note of not shaving Pyrs... Misha's mom lived outdoors (in less than ideal conditions) and was never brushed or anything. She had access to a river that she and her pups would use to cool off in the hot summer months. I think she might have been bred of show dog lines, and had a thicker coat than Chief will. So I completely agree with not shaving Chief (not like it would matter if I didn't) because he's working and he'll need it to protect him from the elements.

(Does that make sense?) 

Yeah this is my first time with a Pyr so his coat may change...BUT, both of his parents' coats looked exactly like his does now. They were short for a Pyr and wavy/curly, like Chief. I think his mother was around 4 years old and his dad was 7 or 8, so they'd be past the point of changing.

Both of his parents were a bit small and narrow for Pyrs, with short, curly coats. They'd have been laughed right out of any show ring...but they're some of the most awesome, true-to-what-the-breed-should-be dogs I've met, personality wise- and Pyrs are fairly common around here as pets so I've met plenty. A lot of Pyrs today don't even guard and many view small animals as prey and randomly kill things...which is the exact OPPOSITE of what a Pyr should do- it's like a retriever that won't retrieve. Sadly, they're popular enough that working ability is being bred out of them and they're turning into useless (for working) companion dogs.    I spoke with someone at a livestock sale a few weeks ago who said they had tried 3 different Pyrs (not at the same time) as guardians for their sheep and all of them never guarded, never stayed with the stock, and all of them started killing lambs and terrorizing the stock at around 5-6 months old. They ended up having to rehome all three of them. They said they got them out of the paper, so they probably were not working bred dogs...but still, from what I've seen, that story is becoming a fairly common one.

Being only 6 months old, I suppose Chief could stop working and start killing things too- but in the stories I've heard, it seems the common theme among dogs that kill stock is that they were of unknown lineage (read: not necessarily working bred, probably out of the newspaper) and they never worked in the first place. Chief started working at  about 4 months old and hasn't done any of the dumb things most of the dogs that end up messing up do, so hopefully we're in the clear. I guess only time will tell.

seems like a wiser choice then to go with another breed.... Anatolian or Mareema(sp)... something that isnt so popular as a pet or show dog... the more primitive and rare the better.

i knew a Mareema breeder in Madison FL... dont know if she kept livestock or not. her two dogs were in a kennel.. i'm guessing because she had a lot of company that day and didnt want a liability.... i wish i had talked to her more about the. i had never even heard of a Mareema until that day.  i thought they were Pyrs!

they were large and fluffy but not obscenely fluffy.

i think with the show dogs its mostly frizz from the blow drying...  my mom's bichonxmaltese would frizz right up if i used the hair dryer on her.. if i just toweled her off she wouldnt be quite as floofy.

I have two pyrs that I have raised from pups. Well actually one is a pup now. And they  have the coats that they pretty much came into the world with the coats they have.  My dogs are inside most of the time and the hair isn't all that bad except when they blow coat. My GSD sheds WAY more than my two pyrs together! I don't understand that people get these dogs, see the parents and then don't want the upkeep of the coats. People need to research the breed they choose and really think about if they can deal with the hair, upkeep, etc, before they get this dog. I understand that people in GA or southern states think their dogs will be too hot, but their coats actually keep them cool. They were put on this earth with the coats they have for a purpose. OK, I've said enough. I don't want to step on any toes, just wanted to say what I thought. GL with whatever you decide to do. I do think taking him to the groomers and just having him bathed would to wonders. Also if you brush your pyr weekly they don't matt.  

PyrfectlyPyrenees

I have done lots of research on pyrs. I have one now and will be adding my second this Friday to our family. I have read and been told by my breeder who has working pyrs that you are NEVER EVER to shave a pyr.

 AMEN..... NEVER NEVER is right...... I owned a Great Pyr and I was told NEVER ever shave her...... for the very reasons you just posted. Im glad someone with the proper knowledge of GPyr spoke up.....

There coats are like insulation and in the summer they work to keep them cool......... Do your research on the breed so you can learn.

What the hell guys? Are you guys seriously implying that I didn't research the breed because I asked about shaving him? That I shouldn't own a Pyrenees because by not understanding the fine nuances of  coat insulation I am obviously an idiot who didn't do a lick of research and just went out and bought a dog? Are you serious?

 Also, read the *content removed, language* thread. I have stated SEVERAL times that I was asking for the sake of knowledge and that I am not planning on shaving him. Isn't asking a question about something before making a decision on doing it research? So, you've accused me of not researching in a thread made as part of my research. Wow. Way to go.

Sorry, but not being sure whether or not I could cut my dog's hair doesn't make me stupid and doesn't mean I didn't research the breed enough. When I researched Pyrs I primarily researched working ability, training, temperament, and potential health issues. Grooming was secondary because frankly, I don't give a crap about "proper" grooming and will do what is easiest and most comofrtable for me and my dog.

Stop being snotty because I asked a question about freaking grooming my dog. *content removed, language*

Ratsicles

What the hell guys? Are you guys seriously implying that I didn't research the breed because I asked about shaving him? That I shouldn't own a Pyrenees because by not understanding the fine nuances of  coat insulation I am obviously an idiot who didn't do a lick of research and just went out and bought a dog? Are you serious?

 Also, read the *previously removed content* thread. I have stated SEVERAL times that I was asking for the sake of knowledge and that I am not planning on shaving him. Isn't asking a question about something before making a decision on doing it research? So, you've accused me of not researching in a thread made as part of my research. Wow. Way to go.

Sorry, but not being sure whether or not I could cut my dog's hair doesn't make me stupid and doesn't mean I didn't research the breed enough. When I researched Pyrs I primarily researched working ability, training, temperament, and potential health issues. Grooming was secondary because frankly, I don't give a crap about "proper" grooming and will do what is easiest and most comofrtable for me and my dog.

Stop being snotty because I asked a question about freaking grooming my dog. *previously removed content* 

Wowza????????? 

*content removed, personal attack* 

OK folks,

 Education is why we're all here right...teaching is good especially when the delivery is nice. Ratsicles WAS asking a question in the OP to find out...rudeness doesn't help teach and tone can't be heard in reading a message...keep in mind quotes and caps are exagerated speaking