Why NOT neuter?

Kiwi, the only fact there is that you surmise without facts. If we state that a whole group of people is this or that you are going to find yourself in a situation where you may have to be a little more articulate

 
I think it's a little unfair to attack her for, it was quite obviously not serious.  Calling her "ignorant" or "immature" would also be responding without facts since you know nothing about her, and hopefully wouldn't be callous enough to make those types of assumptions about people off of one comment.  Take it for what it is, sarcastic, maybe even obnoxious comment that was kinda funny.  And I would remind you, SHE didn't make a personal attack as you did.

As an American, I believe that MissKiwi is correct. Look at our shelter overpopulation compared to other developed countries. It's astronomical. You also have to keep in mind that the majority of people on this board do not represent John and Jane Q Public. The majority on this board are responsible dog folk who base their decisions on education. John and Jane Q Public get their dogs from BYB's and pet stores, feed them Old Roy, won't spay their bitch because she should have one litter and won't neuter their dogs because it will take away his manhood. If their bitch gets pregnant, they have no qualms about taking the pups to the shelter because "It's no problem, the shelter will find good homes for them". We live in a country where we have the latest medical technology and that includes veterinary medicine. We live in a country where you can go to a library or go online and find out all sorts of information about irresponsible breeding and the shelter overpopulation yet puppy mills still flourish and we euthanize 3 to 4 million pets a year. So if this isn't due to laziness and stupidity then what's the excuse?

 We do not gain respect by smearing a population with a sarcastic branding.  If you want to be heard then a more thoughtful approach would work. 
 
 

I WAS done with this thread, but, Meilani [sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif][sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif][sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif][sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif][sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif]

ORIGINAL: DPU

Meilani,  good post!  I get my rescue posters from Kinkos on 95th and Cicero. Come meet Marvin and Newt at a dog showing at the Petsmart in Orland Hills on Jan 6th.  Volunteer to be handler.  I guarantee you will get muscled.

 
Meilani, The invitation is still extended.  I will bring a soapbox and flag.  Let's see if you have the courage to make the same speech in front of a live audience while more importantly, handling a foster and helping are furry friends in need at the same time.

And I would remind you, SHE didn't make a personal attack as you did.

I was criticizing the response, that statement was and  is derogatory and unhelpful. 


A personal attack would be if I called her immature and ignorant, which I did not.  I can see that this poster is using proper and appropriate terminology in other areas.  An ethics course would also be helpful for this poster.

If you want to work for or with people, name-calling cultures with derogatory insulting words, or just having that attitude of predudice, how do you actually intend on helping humans understand where we all could do a bit better, in general? 

I do believe that prejudice is a negative side of lack of knowledge.  Stating this as Kiwi said,  "... In general, Americans are too stupid or lazy to take responsibiltiy for their animals."    Pretty sure it would look arrogant to any other culture you could speak of with prejudistic inflammation.  And you do not gain any respect, simply are speaking to label.  (which is what we seem to want to get away from doing in our civil societies, for example "pit bulls are evil killers in general"....  A statement that is totally unhelpful in anyway that you look at it.

Meilani, The invitation is still extended. I will bring a soapbox and flag. Let's see if you have the courage to make the same speech in front of a live audience while more importantly, handling a foster and helping are furry friends in need at the same time.

 
That sounds less like an invitation than a challenge.  Soapboxes at dawn?
 
Fantastic post, Meilani.
 
Kate

ORIGINAL: Benedict

Meilani, The invitation is still extended. I will bring a soapbox and flag. Let's see if you have the courage to make the same speech in front of a live audience while more importantly, handling a foster and helping are furry friends in need at the same time.

That sounds less like an invitation than a challenge.  Soapboxes at dawn? ...

Kate

 
Actually, I need a handler and I will get a volunteer any way I can.  If there is no handler then the foster dog doesn't show.  And if the foster dog doesn't show to the public it reduces the dog's chances of being adopted.  Good news is that I am close to a confirmation for a handler.

My post surely didn't suggest that "... Americans are too stupid or lazy to take responsibiltiy for their animals."

What it did suggest is that there are other factors in our culture that contribute to shelter overpopulation, puppy mills, etc. On that note, I really don't think that having 100% neutered/spayed pets in the US will empty out our shelters for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

I hope you see that I am not against neutering. Pet owners own it to their dog to make educated decisions about that. Owners should not be lead into thinking that they contribute to overpopulation of shelters by not neutering their dogs.

So if this isn't due to laziness and stupidity then what's the excuse?

Good question! I wish I had the answer. There defiantly needs to be a strong social pressure to educate people on what neutering/spaying entails - and I mean educating them on *both* positive and negative effects.

Stating this as Kiwi said, "... In general, Americans are too stupid or lazy to take responsibiltiy for their animals." Pretty sure it would look arrogant to any other culture you could speak of with prejudistic inflammation. And you do not gain any respect, simply are speaking to label. (which is what we seem to want to get away from doing in our civil societies, for example "pit bulls are evil killers in general".... A statement that is totally unhelpful in anyway that you look at it.

 
Huh?  She was KIDDING!!!  I think you are wasting too much time with this seriously.   I personally always find humor helpful, especially when the discussion is getting heated.  If you don't find it helpful, don't read it or respond.  There is no reason to say nasty things about anyone OK.  And the excuse " I was directing those comments to her comments not her" is just silly.  What if someone said your comments were obtuse because you couldn't get the joke, what would you feel like? (not saying that just an example ok)

Why NOT neuter?  
 
My answer is that nature is a pretty old gal.  And the process of evolution is occuring and while we do make changes to support our lifestyles, the possibility of interfering may always impose results that you may or may not be aware of.  Such as growth and development, the potential of maturation and the ability to live longer life.   
 
I think we have to neuter/spay due to our conditions of living today.  Years ago, people had large properties, and the ability to let the dogs roam without harming or interfering with a neighbor.  But today we have such different life circumstances with overcrowding.  And certainly there is a bunch of need to  get educated dog owners on the roll.
 
It is highly important for the professional realm, in all aspects of pet care to be concerned and teaching and teaching to the language of the demographics that you live in and work.  Information that is written down helps people to digest new information.  A phone # to call back with concerns always needs to be offered.  Creative methods to educate and reinforce are essential to pet owners.
 
I think it would be mayhem if it were true, " In general, Americans are too stupid or lazy to take responsibiltiy for their animals"
 
 
 

one of my dogs is from an accidental breeding. A very experienced breeder. The male smashed his way out of a good solid crate and went THROUGH THE WALL to breed the bitch. If you think you can be 100% sure your intact dog won't breed you are crazy.
Even show/breeding dogs, particularly bitches, usually get spayed once they've had their one or two litters. Why? because emergency spays due to pyrometra are extremely dangerous and planned spays are not. 

There are far too many reasons to neuter/spay today than not. 
 
If more of the public were educated, there would be less of the above stated problems.  Laws need to be upheld.  License, rabies updated, and other care should be mandated in towns and cities.  If people are not compliant they should have to go to court and pay the fines, not be allowed to have animals.  It might have an effect on a larger number of people if an demographic area is not compliant.

ORIGINAL: DPU

ORIGINAL: DPU

Meilani,  good post!  I get my rescue posters from Kinkos on 95th and Cicero. Come meet Marvin and Newt at a dog showing at the Petsmart in Orland Hills on Jan 6th.  Volunteer to be handler.  I guarantee you will get muscled.

Meilani, The invitation is still extended.  I will bring a soapbox and flag.  Let's see if you have the courage to make the same speech in front of a live audience while more importantly, handling a foster and helping are furry friends in need at the same time.

 
It sounds like a lot of fun and I would love to help out but alas, I'm stuck in that hell hole of a pharmacy on Saturday. [&:]
 
In all honesty, I have no problems speaking my mind about spay/neuter of pets and the shelter overpopulation. I think if more people were aware of the shelter overpopulation and how many animals are euthanized yearly due to it, they might not be so blase about owning intact animals and/or allowing them to reproduce so carelessly. Sadly though, if I were to run my trap, it might turn a lot of people off as a lot of them don't like to be told they need to take responsibility for their pets(or anything thing else in their lives) and I wouldn't want to jeopardize the adoption of the dogs.

ORIGINAL: dogslife

I was criticizing the response, that statement was and  is derogatory and unhelpful. 


A personal attack would be if I called her immature and ignorant, which I did not.  I can see that this poster is using proper and appropriate terminology in other areas.  An ethics course would also be helpful for this poster.

I do believe that prejudice is a negative side of lack of knowledge.  Stating this as Kiwi said,  "... In general, Americans are too stupid or lazy to take responsibiltiy for their animals."    Pretty sure it would look arrogant to any other culture you could speak of with prejudistic inflammation.  And you do not gain any respect, simply are speaking to label.  (which is what we seem to want to get away from doing in our civil societies, for example "pit bulls are evil killers in general"....  A statement that is totally unhelpful in anyway that you look at it.

Maybe it would have been worded better if I had said "Other countries obviously take better care of their animals as a society than american society..." The wording was meant to be sarcastic and get attention, all it did was draw attention away from the rest of my post. Its easy to forget, when you feel comfortable conversing on a forum, that you have to take extra care to make a point carefully. Much is lost in written communication versus verbal.