Please help me help him?!? Should I give the steroid?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Please help me help him?!? Should I give the steroid?

    Poor Boomer is miserable. One evening last week I noticed some bumps on his chest, by the next evening they were all over his chest, head, and shoulders. He scratched some of the spots raw that day.

    The vet diagnosed him with a staph infection last Thursday and sent him home with Chlorpheniramine (antihistamine) 4mg 2 tabs 2-3 times/day as needed and Cephalexin (antibiotic) 500mg 1 tab 2 times/day-10 days.

    On Sunday he was shaking his head, not a lot, but noticeable. Last night he woke me up several times shaking his head. I looked at his ears and they looked good, but I cleaned them and skipped the Chlorpheniramine and gave him Benadryl with the antibiotic this morning.

    I came home at lunch and he was still shaking his head so I took him back to the vet. They said his ears looked great and they couldn#%92t give me any good reason for the shaking except that maybe some of the staph infection bumps up around that area are bothering him. (Which doesn#%92t make sense to me since the rash came up Wed, he started antibiotic Thurs, and started shaking Sun)

    Anyway, they sent me home today with Prednisone (20mg 1/2 tab 5 days, 1/2 tab every other day for 5 days, 1/4 tab every other day for 5 days).

    I don#%92t understand the reasoning behind the steroid and I don#%92t want to give it if it is not necessary.

    Also, he#%92s still shaking his head – what should I do? Is there any way to give him some relief? I#%92m not noticing that the Benadryl is making any difference.

    Any advice is welcome, I#%92ve never had a dog with skin or allergy issues before.

    Also, I have some oatmeal shampoo, is it okay to go ahead and bathe him? He doesn#%92t have any raw spots anymore, they#%92re all scabbed over.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm sure you know more than I do about this, but from what I've heard the sleepy side effects of benedryl will lessen the more the dog takes it. 
    Also, I don't recommend oatmeal shampoo to dogs with allergy problems as oatmeal is one of the top food allergies.
    Maybe try a tea tree oil shampoo instead.  Tea tree oil is a natural anit-hystimine (sorry about the spelling) and a natural antibacterial.  Like with any herbal or medicated shampoo, leave it on for 10 minutes for it to soak in and start working - I used to work for a dog groomer while I was in high school.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Or just use a tearless, hypoallergenic shampoo, to get whatever is irritating his skin, off. 
    • Bronze
    Get a homeopoathic vet to diagnose and treat his problem(s). If your Vet can't explain to you what is wrong and why your pet is taking the drugs, id get another Vet. Our reg. vet works WITH our homeopathic Vet because the reg Vet doesn't like steroids either, but as a Dr. of traditional medicine, steroids are the last resort. Well...for some lazy vets, I'd think they are the 1st resort since they often eliminate symptoms, but a responsible Vet should encourage you to research and feel comfortable with other (less harmfull) options that you and your pet can live with.
     
    I have prednisone in the cupboard. Basically, it stays there unless there is a rash as big as a paw, and it is raw and or bleeding/weeping.
     
    Oatmeal is not for allergic dogs?? I use vet Solutions Oatmeal & Aloe for Sensitive Skin and I mix 1 pt (same brand) conditioner with 5 pts water for itch relief and to rebuild the skins resiliance to infection and spray him 2-3 times daily. He hasn't had an outbreak (secondary infection/rash/hives etc) in 3 weeks.
     
    Wishing you luck. I hate to see animals suffer. I highly recomend seeing a homeopathic vet in lieu of the steroids and at least google prednisone before you use it. If you do have to use it, do NOT overuse it and get check ups frequectly while on it to make sure the benefits outweigh the side effects :)
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    While prednisone will help Boomer, in the end if he has allergies or a problem that needs to be corrected, it really will just come back. With our experience with Ollie, the antibiotics and prednisone that he was given helped while he was on it, but the time in between being on it got shorter and shorter, and we knew we were not helping him. That is when Mike (my son - Ollies Dad) said "enough is enough,,no more prednisone or antibiotics its making him worse!"  Well, in a way it felt it was because his immune system was getting more and more weakened by these drugs.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Poor Boomer; [:o] Kelly the only OTC antihistamine that helped Jessie was Tavist; not the one with the decongestant but the Tavist Daytime; Walmart makes a copy that's much cheaper. Dogs can have an infection deep in the ear without showing any signs like a discharge; you may want to insist on a culture and sensitivity test. Cephalexin is great for skin infections but I don't know if it works on ear infections.The steroid will definitely relieve his itching unless it's a food allergy but I wouldn't give it to Jessie either; that being said it probably doesn't hurt to use it for a short time. Try these shampoos; Nova Pearls which you can get at PetsMart or Petco, Nu Sal T which you'll probably have to order; both should work better than a shampoo with oatmeal or tea tree oil.  You should be able to find this cream rinse at PetsMart; OxyMed; it's made by Tropiclean and it really helps the itching but you need to leave it on for the amount of time it says on the bottle. Ask the vet to make sure it's okay to bathe him though. Unless he was doing a lot of scratching before he developed the skin infection this may be caused by something other than allergies. Many vets make the mistake of not treating skin infections long enough; because of the way that blood flows to the skin only about 40% of the antibiotic reaches the skin so that's why it takes longer to treat skin infections; if he still has some places after you've given all the Cephalexin you will probably need more. I'll be sending healing vibes to Sooner; good luck.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Oatmeal is not for allergic dogs??

     
    In the book I have "Allergy Solutions for Dogs" Dr. Messonier (sp?) says that he finds oatmeal with aloe vera shampoo or conditioner to work best.  I personally have had great luck with Nu Sal T, and it gives Sassy relief for a longer time than anything else.
     
    Interestingly regarding the ears and head shaking, Sassy hasn't had an ear infection in over a year (since the food switch to NB Duck & Potato), but on Sunday, she was pawing one side and when I looked it was red.  I used some Oti Calm on both ears and there was no debris and she quit after that.  I do think sometimes the ears can just be itchy and inflammed like the other areas of their body, but it's always good to have it checked out if you're not sure or if there's any signs of infection...or if cleaning them doesn't help.
     
    My vet also recommended using 1 part vinegar to 4 parts water as a final rinse to maintain the ph levels.  I think tea tree oil is a great option too though.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thank you all for the tips. Boomer sends kisses.

    Janice, I appreciate the name brands - that really helps. I'm going to go after work and look for them and also buy some Natural Balance and try that for a while, although I hate to upset his tummy again.

    I'm thinking though that this may not be allergies. He wasn't itching or anything before he got the rash. What else causes staph infections? And the head shaking still concerns me - I feel another vet trip in our future.

    I would love to find a homeopathic vet, I just don't really know how to. I don't know of any around here, although I found a holisitic vet through AHVMA's website and I'm thinking about trying her. My family and I have used the same vet my enitre life, it's kind of scary to think about switching but as I become more educated about these things, I think it may be for the best.
    • Gold Top Dog
    What else causes staph infections?

     
    Here's how I understand it, and I could be totally wrong.  We're currently treating Sassy for her 2nd staph infection (and there are other infections, as well) in the last 6 months.  The body (dogs and ours) have staph on the skin at all times.  It's only when, for example, with allergies, the skin becomes compromised that the infection breaks thru the natural barriers of the skin, that it becomes an infection.  The vet agrees that Sassy has a crummy immune system and the allergies just add to that and create more of a problem for her.  Even dogs with allergies don't always get infections and likewise, dogs who get infections may not have allergies.   Anyway, that's how I understand it, but I'm still learning new things everyday, so maybe someone else can explain it better/differently.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I found this link that I'd saved and it probably explains it better than I did:
     
    Pyoderma


    Staphylococcal Folliculitis and Furunculosis
    Pyoderma is caused by bacterial infection of the skin. The causative organism is almost always Staphylococcus intermedius (not the same Staph that usually infects people). Bacteria will not usually cause disease on normal skin, but other underlying skin diseases cause some changes in the skin surface making it susceptible to infection, leading to pyoderma. Common underlying causes of pyoderma include allergic diseases (food allergy, atopy, flea allergy); parasites (demodectic or sarcoptic mange), seborrhea and hormonal imbalances Dogs with any of these problems tend to have recurrent or relapsing pyoderma.
    Since pyoderma is usually secondary to an underlying problem, it is often important to diagnose and treat the primary problem while treating the pyoderma. Treatment of the pyoderma itself includes oral antibiotics and special shampoos, sprays or rinses.
    The deeper the skin infection, the longer the course of antibiotics that will be needed. It is important to give the full dose of antibiotics for the entire time prescribed regardless of how much better the skin looks. Stopping the antibiotic before the prescription is finished may lead to further problems such as resistance to the antibiotic or the need to start treatment from the beginning. The underlying skin problem may need to be corrected in some cases, before antibiotics can be completely effective.
    It is equally important to keep your recheck appointment. Medications may need to be modified at that time depending upon the pet's progress. Again, diagnosis and treatment of the primary problem is the key to preventing a recurrence.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thank you Cathy!
    • Gold Top Dog
    I have a friend who's dog has both food and environmental allergies.  She found that NB Potato and Duck helped tremendously (by the way it's easy to digest).  She also pores pure tea tree oil in a hypo allergenic shampoo with no scents or anything to bath the dog.  As a topical treatment she uses Richard's Organic Skin Spray.  She's done alot of expiramenting over the past few years and has found these suggestions to work the best.

    Also, about the ear infection, what kind of testing did the vet do?  What kind of infection? I'm asking because my vet gave me some antibiotics and ear wash to put in my dog's ear that made his scratching and rubbing worse.  My friend with the dog with allergies had the same problem with what the vet gave her.  Through the diagnosis of my groomer, I discovered that he is allergic to wheat.


    • Silver
    ORIGINAL: sooner

    I don't understand the reasoning behind the steroid and I don't want to give it if it is not necessary.





    The Pred is a synthetic anti-inflammatory hormone. Dogs, cats, horses, humans- we all make a natural one called cortisol. So it calms the cellular inflammation that has taken place from the allergic reaction. A dog who responds favorably to Pred should probably have adrenal function tested to see if it is fulfilling a hormonal deficiency that effects immune function. Vets prescribe it for relief but sometimes are actually temporarily correcting a hormone deficiency unknowingly. Once the Pred is out of the body the deficiency may return if the adrenals are not performing normally.

    Too little cortisol in itself also effects thyroid function since it's needed to convert T4 into T3 so the body can use that thyroid hormone.
    Many dogs with immune issues often show abnormal hormone levels of both adrenal and thyroid. This in turn, effects immune function as the hormones govern much of the immune system.
    I learned this after finding out that my dog had very poor immune function and often had infections and skin issues. A diet free of allergens helped her but not enough to live comfortably. She was given up to rescue by her previous owners probably for this reason and that's when we adopted her. Nothing seemed to help enough. We tried several prescription and OTC antihistamines, she was even treated for mites with ivermectin despite clean scrape, we had various anti-inflammatory shamoos and leave in treatments, Gentocin spray, EFA caps, even Prednisone which helped but not always- none of it really helped enough for her to be comfortable or alleviate all of the various infections that popped up one after the other. The baths did help a bit to get rid of some of the bacteria on her skin so fewer antibiotics were needed, the diet helped a bit too and the fish oil most likely also yet not enough to be normal or lead a normal life. But testing for and then correcting her thyroid and adrenal levels helped the most. If she had normal levels, the rest of it (diet, fish oil, antihistamines) probably would have been sufficient to give her a normal life.
    She takes natural hydrocortisone daily. It's plant derived and is only enough to fulfill her hormonal levels. Unfortunately, the high doses of Pred and others often prescribed are sometimes counter productive as too much cortisol is also immune suppressive, just as too little is. A high dose can quickly quell the fire of the immune issue at hand and that is neccessary sometimes to try to get a grip and then systematically figure out what's going on within the immune system. It can give a much needed break to a suffering animal but in the long run the immune system needs some looking into.
    When my dog had abnormal hormone levels her antibody levels (also called immune globulin) were also all abnormal also. As her hormone levels began to normalize so did her antibody levels.
    It was something to see them rise closer to normal range as the hormone levels did also.She can still get thrown off with food allergies but her immune function is considerably better for the last several years. After trying so many things form the outside, and even inside with diet, we really found the best results form correcting her thyroid and adrenal levels. If you do test thyroid, btw, you may as well test adrenal.
    The drug given for hypothyroidism isn't reccomended for use anyway in dogs with unaddressed adrenal insufficiency. So checking both may be prudent as they often can go hand in hand anyway.

    So I can't really tell you to use it or not, but if you give it and he does respond favorabluy then I would definitely have his adrenal hormones tested, not just cortisol, but the aldersterone and importantly the adrenal estrogen (males and females both produce this). My dogs glands actually were producing too much adrenal estrogen also and it was very limiting to the immune system. Once her cortisol was corrected the estrogen leveled out on it's own, no help needed.

    Another option if you do go with a holistic vet is to try to boost immune function with glandulars if you find the adrenals and thyroid are not functioning well. There are holistic vets though who do the Plechner protocol that my dog is on for Endocrine-Immune Imbalance. Carvel Tiekert is on (founder of AHVMA) tests for it and uses the protocol, there are some other holistic vets on the site [linkhttp://www.drplechner.com]www.drplechner.com[/link] too.

    OK, I've written a book here, I never meant to be so long winded!
    More or less, if you do not find the source of the immune issues, perhaps look into testing thyroid and adrenal glands. If you are able to find a remedy or a diet that helps that is definitely easier, otherwise the testing may give deeper insight.

    • Gold Top Dog
    So I can't really tell you to use it or not, but if you give it and he does respond favorabluy then I would definitely have his adrenal hormones tested, not just cortisol, but the aldersterone and importantly the adrenal estrogen (males and females both produce this). My dogs glands actually were producing too much adrenal estrogen also and it was very limiting to the immune system. Once her cortisol was corrected the estrogen leveled out on it's own, no help needed.

     
    I'm pretty sure I've asked you this before, so sorry, but how did you test the adrenal system?  Is it a simple blood test?  I really want to talk to my derm vet about doing this (and try to keep from saying "why haven't we already done this?").  The best Sassy has been was right after we put her on thyroid meds last Sept.  Her values were near zero, so she showed immediate and significant improvement right away.  Her fur filled in, the rough patches on her elbows went away, and she was just healthier than I'd ever seen her.  In December, it was almost like it quit working and she hasn't been the same since.  I'm wondering now if we jump-started her immune system but not enough and maybe we need to be looking at more bloodwork.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thank you for all the excellent information sophia!