Ear infection back again.. pls help!

Maybe this one isn't becuase of an allergy. I know allergies can trigger them, but sometimes they can just pop up anyway. If his ear canal got wet or something like that then he could get another infection.
My suggestion is to keep him on the venison/rice and take him to the vet to treat the ear. Some dogs are just prone to ear infections. Like mine...[&o]

Oh, by the way, what type of infection did your vet say it was? Yeast, bacterial, etc? I was just wondering becuase sometimes yeast can be kind of hard to find and she may be on the wrong medication for it.
 
Also, how do you know it is a poultry allergy? Some blood tests can be unreliable for food allergies, so it could even be the rice that is causing her problems!
I hope your dog feels better soon--I too am constantly struggling with my bichon's allergies and occasional ear infections. They are no fun:-(

jettasmomma is absolutely right here -- allergies pop out in some dogs IN ears simply because the ears are the 'weak link' -- the skin that is most sensitive and an easy area to attack.  So the ear infection may not be *because* of an allergy, but just that 'Achille's Heel' for this dog. 
 
Good way of putting it jettasmomma.

My vet told me it was a yeast problem.  I asked them to swab the ear and have it tested but they insisted it was just yeast and to treat it whenever it pops up.  To me, there should be a root cause but I don't know.  I did an elimination diet and from that assumed that he is allergic to fowl.  He very well could have gotten into a food with Chicken in it.  I just had a baby and when I was in the hospital my mom looked after my dogs.  She feeds NB too but with Chicken so he may have gotten into it although she is usually good with making sure he doesn't.  I never tested him for allergies at the vet because I had heard they were unreliable.  Thanks for all your help.
Come to think of it, his ear infection did pop up after I took him to the groomer.... possible corelation??!!!

Unfortunately I've got WAY more dog "ear infection" experience than I wish I had.  And with it, a lot of experience with vets who treat yeast because it's EASY ...
 
Getting deep enough in the ear canal to 'see' deep can be difficult and frankly can get a vet bitten.  So rather than "cause dissention" they will simply treat for the yeast and hope it goes away.  They rarely check deep enough to find bacteria.  Many vets just don't want to make you incur more cost so they don't suggest such tests.  Some vets LIKE to look at stuff under a microscope and some vets hate it -- so one is going to be more prone to suggest it than the other.
 
My Muffin had bacterial ear infections (which were triggered by atopic allergies incidentally) for years before I even KNEW about them.  I didn't have the knowledge then that I do now and I didn't know to *look* for them. 
 
The vet I had at the time handed me a zillion tubes of Otomax (yeast ear medicine) and eventually once he decided there was bacteria in there, he just handed me Genticin ointment (too little MUCH too late) rather than suggesting something more expensive.  As a result, he cost Muffin his ears. 
 
Long term inflammation in dog ears causes the ear canals to ossify ... which leads to the blood supply being 'shut off' so you can't get antibiotics IN the ear (hence my caterwauling about ear infections ALL the time on here -- as in MAKE SURE it's not bacterial!!! don't let a vet derail that and just treat for yeast!!).
 
Groomers can cause both yeast AND bacterial infections.  Let me amend that to say "BAD groomers ...".  Muffin (same dog with the bad ears) was the first dog I'd ever had who needed to be groomed.  I went to this lady because she seemed nice and did some rescue and she was a friend of a friend and was accommodating about hours.  But I began to be a bit unhappy -- a lot of 'little' things. 
 
One day I went in there to 'wait' for him to be done ... and I watched a groomer (another one who worked for her) bathe a dog.  This gal put the dog in the sink, suds him up .. and then she lifted the ear flap, squirted soapy water directly IN the ear (she had a bottle of shampoo and water with an open tip on the end) as hard as she could and then she squished it over and over again -- SOAPY WATER.  Then she took the spray hose and BLEW IT IN THE EAR.
 
I was so angry I almost choked.  Suddenly I knew why Muffin had yeasty ear infections ALL the time.  I'm working overtime to keep the ears dry and they are spraying water in the ears FULL FORCE. 
 
I was just so appalled -- they KNEW my dog had ear problems ... and I just couldn't believe anyone could be that dumb.
 
If there was bacteria in the ear she blew it all the way to the ear drum, and no way could anything have gotten it all out.  Let's make a nice MOIST dirty environment for bacteria and yeast to grow!!
 
You may want to ask how they do bathe -- but I tell you ... I'm SO careful about groomers now.  If the infection followed a groomer visit ... *sigh* it's so hard to tell.

Thank you so much for your insight and your support.  It is nice to know that someone knows how frustrating and heart breaking it is to watch their dog endure this time and time again.
Not only is the ear infection back but his body weight has dropped and he hides and his eyes are runny.... same way he was 5 months ago before I switched to Natural Balance.  After I switched to Venison his body weight plumped up.  Although my vet said he was in tip top shape even when he was thin.  (and I mean thin... hip bones and rib bones protruding.. almost emaciated if you ask me)  So I don't know... *ARGHHH*... Seems I'm the only one who notices a problem. I asked my vet to do a swab.  I would rather pay through the nose to get this gone than treat and treat with no result.  Hopefully I can get this figured out.  I need to know more about these atopic allergies.. could be the problem.  And if so, do I treat him with Benadryl or something?
That is awful about the groomer.. I would feel sick too if I saw that happen.. don't they know?
Thanks again.

Runny eyes tend to be a hallmark of atopic allergies -- if you do a search on here you will find SCADS of discussion about allergy.  At this point there have been 3 things ... 4 that have helped my dogs.
 
1.  Frequent bathing - they know dog atopic allergies are also absorbed thru the skin so literally wiping them off and bathing can help in a big way.
 
2.  Benedryl -- there are many antihistamines that dogs do well on, and different dogs seem to do well on different ones. For Benedryl give  1-2 mg/lb body weight of Benedryl given 2- 4 times a day.  Keep the 2 mg dose for urgent things like stings and hives and such tho.
 
3.  Homeopathics - that's a whole different subject and a pretty complicated one.  I'm glad to help you but I'd de-rail the whole topic if I started it here.
 
4.  Two things YOU might want to consider -- a thyroid panel done by either Dr. Jean Dodds herself or by Michigan State (who use her protocols) -- NOT THE SAME as your vet sending it to the local lab.  She uses different protocols and once we diagnosed Billy's thyroid problem it made SUCH a difference.  Also -- just a plain old blood panel might tell you something about your dog's whole health profile. 

If I saw my groomer do that I think i would cry.....All that money spent on ear infections because of a groomer's stupidity!![:@]

I have had blood work done on him a few times and it showed nothing wrong.. But definitly something to look into.  I am in Canada so I don't know if Michigan State is an option.  Would atopic allergies cause him to be spindly and low in body weight too??  I am going to the vet soon for heart worm test and preventative so I will talk to them about a thryoid test done.  I just want him better.
Here is a pic of him if you were curious.. he is the apricot one on the left.  The black and white is one year older and has NO problems at all.  Thanks for all of your help.

Yes, both Michigan State and Dr. Dodds *are* options for Canadians.  The blood has to be frozen and overnighted (like DHL, Fed Ex -- both go to Canada).
 
Don't misunderstand -- these are *different* tests.  Your regular vet's labs are not going to give you the same quality results.  Historically, all dog blood has been treated the same -- the same 'scale' is used for a Rottweiler as a Min Pin.  For a poodle as a St. Bernard.  Those dogs aren't "equal" -- they are different breeds.  Their metabolisms are completely at different speeds -- and Dr. Dodd's contention is that it's silly to say that  different breeds should be gauged by the same scale.  That what is 'normal' for a sedentary breed shouldn't be 'normal' for a breed that ought to operate with a higher metabolism. 
 
I had my Billy's thyroid panel done THREE times.  It came back "kinda low" but "within parameters".  Meanwhile his skin just got worse and worse and worse.  Finally, my holistic vet and I were talking and I said "should we send it away to Dr. Dodds?? Is that silly?"
 
She heaved this HUGE sigh of relief and said "NOT at all!!!  I wish you would!  And in fact, just send it to Michigan State if you want -- sometimes vets find it easier to deal with a very reputable vet school lab than just one vet's office.  Jean Dodds BUILT MS's lab and they adhere religiously to her protocols.  It's the same as sending it to her."
 
My regular vet has better facilities for dealing with blood so the agreement had been that I'd ask them to do it.  WOW, what a difference.  Billy's blood came back *definitely* low.  Not dangerously low, but definitely below what should be normal for a buffy coat English cocker. 
 
Treating him made all the difference.  Low thyroid isn't going to *cause* allergies.  If you are allergic to something you are just plain allergic to THAT thing.  However ... low thryoid sets a dog up for various other problems.  Just like high thyroid sets them up for various problems.  So you treat the thyroid and it elminates the skin's huge propensity to *look* for problems.  It won't make him not allergic -- but it can set you up to 'succeed' more when trying to treat the allergies.
 
Typically a low thryoid dog will have weight *gain*, sleep a lot and be cold.  Billy was aall those things. 
 
However, HIGH thryoid can be more dangerous than low.  Typically in hypo (high) thyroid you will see a dog that is too thin, one that can't 'settle'.  The dog may not be over-active because if the body isn't using food the dog may actually be 'weak' but high blood pressure carries with it (both in dogs and people) that sort of nervous thing. 
 
Now a poodle isn't sedentary by any stretch -- so don't jump to conclusions and think I'm telling you that your dog is high thyroid.  But I lost a dog due to high thryoid/hypertension (the same one with the ear problems, in fact, and HE was a cocker, but a cocker who was in renal failure and the kidney issues caused the hypertension and the hypertension made the kidney disease worsen faster). 
 
If you haven't switched vets in all of this (and I'm sorry, I don't have time right now to re-read both threads, so maybe you said and I didn't pick it up!  Sorry!) but someone reading bloodwork should pick up if there are warning signs to other diseases (like cholsterol being spiked when everything else is normal, etc.). 
 
All I know is I've been where you are ... half-worried to death, and finding no way out of the spiral.  I can tell you also that one of the *best* things I ever did was seek out a really good holistic vet.  There are bad ones and good ones ... but I know in Canada there are many really good ones -- one website I refer folks to all the time is the Chi Institute website.
 
Traditional Chinese veterinary medicine vets do an entirely different 'type' of exam.  They rely less on just 'tests' and instead look at how the body relates to itself -- which pulses may be high or low, the color of the tongue, eyes, smell of breath, coat condition, etc.  They can often look at the same tests the regular vet has run and seen and come up with a totally different thought. 
 
There are other certifying organizations but I know the Chi Institute is reliable so I feel comfortable referring you to it.  [linkhttp://www.chi-institute.com]http://www.chi-institute.com[/link]
 
But since you honestly feel like you've battled this for a good long while, and you aren't getting answers, but YOU ... the guardian who *does* know this dog feel like something is going unseen ... I'm gonna stand up and holler GO FOR IT.  I've done the same thing with Billy and with other dogs.  And frankly, I can tell you of like 4 instances where vets didn't 'find' something but I felt something WAS wrong and they didn't find it til 'too late'. 
 
But with Billy, I've felt something was 'wrong' for almost 2 years.  We've found part of it (the thyroid) and now just because I stuck my nose in and demanded a senior blood panel on a 6 year old dog we've found the early stages of immune-mediate hymolytic anemia.  Had we caught it when it was more developed and he was 'sick' I'd have lost him.   
 
Go for it .. it's worth it.
 

Hey Calliecritturs,
Yes, I do feel like I have been battling this for years.  He is 3 this year and it has been the entire time I've had him.  My vet has had Shih Tzus her entire life but I still feel like I am the one who is trying to diagnose him and bringing ideas to them.  I love my vets, they are great people however they arent really helping much and that is frustrating.  There is a holistic vet around here that I could go to.  I am starting to feel like nothing is going to help and that maybe I am just so obsessed and nothing is really wrong.  BUT then, I look at how he improved over the last 4 months and now that he has reverted back to the way he was, there was a definite improvement which shows me that something is wrong.
When I go to my vet this week I will talk to her and tell her everything that is on my mind.  I need this fixed.  I will mention thyroid panel and everything.
Thanks for ALL of your help.  It is greatly appreciated.
P.S  Should I try bendaryl or wait and clear it with my vet first.  So far, I have been doing things on my own as all they want to do is treat the ear infection whenever it pops up (and before the food change, that was every month or so!!!)

I doubt you will get very far -- you will need to set some sort of parameters in your own mind or you will simply keep "going back". 
 
There are good holistic vets and bad ones.  Make sure any you go to is good -- preferably thru some certifying agency.  I've had really good luck with the traditional Chinese medicine (that doesn't mean a "Chinese vet" -- that means they use the Eastern medical philosophies -- their herbals are far more potent than anything we use here and they do have many thousands of years of experience!).  Particularly for skin issues it seems to work really well.
 
Call the holistic vet you have and find out what modalities that vet PREFERS.  Not what will they use if they have to -- but what they **prefer**.  That will tell you a lot -- also has how and where they got their training beyond regular vet school.  Did they attend weekend classes?  Did they just decide they preferred the holistic way??
 
In essence, you can just hang out a shingle that says "Holistic" and there's no governing agency so it's kind of "buyer beware".  Find out what kind of reputation the vet has in town -- and what sorts of things the vet is good at treating. 
 
It also may take you a while to get IN to a good holistic vet.  Initial visits are often a couple of hours -- and find out what treatment modalities the vet will use while you are there. 
 
If you decide to try antihistamine, commit to it for a LEAST two to three weeks, given three times a day (or whatever that particular antihistamine needs). Benedryl is pretty easy and benign to give and try.  If you see an improvement it may be worth it.  If it even keeps the dog from tearing at its skin it may be worth it just to help deal with some of the itching (maybe not all).
 
Holler if I can help.  Callie

I doubt you will get very far -- you will need to set some sort of parameters in your own mind or you will simply keep "going back".

Callie has a good point; I went through a situation similar to yours with Jessie; finally I changed to a vet who understands a lot more about allergies and the many ways they can affect a dog and also went to a veterinary dermatologist. What finally woke me up is when Jessie's head swelled significantly on one side and the skin on the top of her nose turned red and developed pustules; her eyelids also swelled and had pustules as well. My vet had never seen this before and said " It's just Jessie"; she also did not consult with anyone else to try and diagnose the cause even though we have a veterinary teaching hospital a few miles away. It took three months for Jessie's eyes to return to normal. That was the last straw; I really liked her but had to do what was best for Jessie. Her allergies are under control now and she hasn't needed an antibiotic for over a year which is great since she was taking them almost continually during the fall and winter of 2004.
  All this happened before I joined idog; there were no holistic vets in our area at the time and I didn't know about the chi institute. I did try quercitin and other supplements including tablets made from Chinese herbs but they didn't help; I'm sure being able to work with a holistic vet would have made a difference. Bathing does help; it helped Jessie for about five days at the most though so you may need to bathe your dog frequently. It shouldn't be a problem for a small dog like yours; Jessie is as big as a Lab and hates baths. If you can keep your dog inside early in the morning when the pollen counts are highest that also helps; vacuuming carpets, upholstered furniture, and curtains a few times a week can also help reduce your dog's exposure to allergens. Good luck in finding the right vet  for your dog.

Thanks everyone!
Here;s an update...I went to the vet for heartworm tests and preventative meds.. I made a point to book extra time to speak to the vet and voice ALL of my concerns.  I walked out of there pretty much in the same boat as when I walked in, just with a new medicine.  The vet says that on paper Tucker seems healthy.  His weight is ok and he looks good.  I told him that to me, he isn't well and all the vet can do is take my word on that.  He gave me a NEW solution that they just came out with to try to dry out his ear.  It is ALUMINUM ACETATE???!! Has anyone ever heard of it?? Apparently, I am to put a few drops twice daily in his ear and it could be for the rest of his life..  It smells like white vinegar.?...??
As for the allergy thing, the vet doesn't think it is.  He said it would be both ears infected all the time if it was allergies but told me to rotate his food and to give him Benadryl twice a day (12.5mg) just to see if there is improvement.  He had no real explanation for him hiding under the couch, or loosing weight (because he is still in the weight range for the Shih Tzu breed), or for the ears etc... SIGH**
I will keep trucking and hope something works.
I really appreciate everyones help. Thanks.