PLEASE HELP...VERY ITCHY DOG

    • Bronze

    PLEASE HELP...VERY ITCHY DOG

    My Yellow Lab is very itchy...given all kinds of skin scrapings for mange with no results, been treated for mange with REVOLUTION been treated for allergies and was on a dosage of up to 12 steriod/antihistamine pills per day along with antibiotics for appatent skin infection. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    may be a yeast/fungal in fection. Try a good shampoo for that to see if it helps, most likely wouldn't hurt.
     
    How old is your dog? What food do you feed?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Sounds like our Ollie,,,my sons Great Dane.  And we found that even though the steroid helped WHILE he was on it, it came back right after. He also would get skin infections and have to be on antibiotics, which ALSO helped WHILE he was on them. Soon we realized the problems were not being cured with these drugs...only temporarily.  We took him to a skin specialist...they blood tested him and found he was allergic to grass and dust.  Allergen shots took it all away.    He has/had a weakened immune system..we believe from vaccinations and medications.   He is just fine now, but gets no vaccinations anymore.   BUT he is pretty much inside and is not exposed to other dogs or animals.
    • Bronze
    Jake is 3 1/2 years old...has had this since he was six months old.  I had him on NZYMES which is an anti-fungul program which cleans out the system.  He was on it for 6 months...seemed to get better...his skin healed up to a point and most of his hair grew back around his neck legs but the constant itchy never stopped.  I have tried about 5 different anit-fungal shampoos and have even gone as far as bathing him every evening...nothing seems to stop the itch.
     
    Had him on a few differnt foods as well.  When I was still entertaining the vet I had him on Eukenuba Kangaroo and Oats formula which he was on for about 2 years...still itchy and I research the ingrediants and took him off immediatly after that.  He is currently on Eagle Pack Holistic Select Chicken which was recommended by the NZYMES.
    • Bronze
    So the reason why I was mentioning mange was that since December I have been getting pimple like marks on my legs and wrists...found that it would happen typically the next day after bathing Jake...but they weren't really itchy to me.  For the past month I have been getting them at my ankles and the upper parts of my legs and they are SUPER ITCHY...
    • Gold Top Dog
    So did his test for mange come out negative?  Have you had yourself looked at to find out what it is? 
    If it were me, I would try to find what he is allergic to if it is not mange or a curable illness
    • Gold Top Dog
    Jackers -- there are many different kinds of 'Mange'.  They can do a skin scraping for demodex (which can be itchy but typically isn't 'super' itchy).  But you won't find sarcoptic mites on a skin scraping -- almost NEVER.  They are faster than greased lightning and you just will NOT get them on a scraping unless you happen to hit where a female has laid eggs and then typically that is deeper than what a scrape will show.
     
    Now YOU are itching -- c'mon, tell the vet it's sarcops.  And if they insist on scraping go to a different vet, because that's NOT how to diagose sarcops.  The clinical treatment for sarcops says "If you suspect it TREAT it". 
     
    Revolution often does NOT work well on sarcops (it often doesn't work well on many things in my experience).  But ivermectin and milbemycin do.  Now you will need doses beyond the 'heartworm prevention' dose of ivermectin (often done with a liquid ivermectin).  Milbemycin in the dose given in Interceptor should be effective on sarcops.
     
    LymeDip can be a SUPER help -- it's far more body friendly than the old Paramite Dip (which is an organophosphate).  YOU can wash down in Lyme Dip.
     
    If it is 'dog sarcops' then the sarcops can't lay eggs in your skin -- only bite you. 
     
    Sarcops *tend* to be species specific -- in other words the bum on the street corner who may have "scabies" (human sarcoptic mites) may actually give them to his dog.  They'll have to go back to the human to 'breed' but they will feed on ANYTHING warm blooded.
     
     But if it's the dog who is the originator of the sarcops then it's true in reverse -- they'll bite the human, but will have to go back onto the dog to 'breed'.
     
    Any species has it's own sarcop mite.  However, if you live near a wooded area or where there are a lot of animals -- ANY warm-blooded animal (foxes, deer, possum, coon, woodchuck, rabbits, etc.) has it's own variety of sarcops and your dog may simply get into them repeatedly. 
     
    I'll be honest with you, I suspect several things may be going on simultaneously:
     
    1.  All of the following are somehow immune-related.  So at the bottom of all of it I suspect the dog has a genetically poor immune system,  Now maybe not demodex (unless he had demodex as a pup and then the sucky immune system is a given and labs are really prone to it). 
     
    2.  Sarcoptic mange I think is probably a given -- but it ALSO is very very immune-related.  Two dogs can live together and one that is healthy immune-wise will never show itchiness, but the other dog can be laid low by it!!  Humans may not get it much at first -- but as their world gets more and more inundated with the mites, they too can react -- particularly after close contact.
     
    3.  There has been a disturbing trend in recent years that is seeing more and more sarcoptic mites violate the old 'species-specific' rule -- they are the survivors of the insect world (much like roaches who can live thru a nuclear blast) so what may have started out as wildlife sarcops, may have adapted to both human and dog as a preferred host.  It's not a given but it sure is possible.
     
    4.  Allergies -- there are far more than food allergies.  Yes, food allergies MIGHT be present, but you won't find them unless you do a pure elmination diet.  However -- an elmination diet is sucky for the immune system so often it's counter-productive.  But you could be dealing with a dog who may have a contact allergy (I'd have to talk to you more about the state of the skin) AND atopic (inhaled) allergies.  Often just plain old atopic allergies can keep the immune system SOOOOO bottomed out all the time that the dog is then a sitting duck (eww, sorry this is a retriever -- I shouldn't have said "duck" *smile*) for ANY allergen -- food or otherwise.
     
    I'm not a vet -- I'm just a lady who has had an unbelieveable number of "itchy dogs" -- and I've seen dogs mis-diagnosed for mange MANY times.  Vets honestly even hate to mention sarcops because they think people will get mad if they suggest something so commonly associated with "filth".  But it's not how it travels -- it travels with the poor immune system and a sarcop who is hungry will FIND that weak dog somehow.
     
    Honestly since YOU are breaking out, I would just plain TELL the vet to treat for sarcops.  With something OTHER than Revolution.  If you want to email me I have a whole article devoted to mange and the things you can do for the immune system to 'help' it. 
     
    Allergies and immunity are VERY closely tied.  Allergies of ANY sort are an immune problem. So bottom line, boosting the immune system is likely going to help. 
     
    I get a bit tense with vet practices that like a nice 'neat' solution for 'mange' and think Revolution should do it all or refuse to look further.  I don't know your vet at all, but it would seem to me that since YOU are showing symptoms someone a) shoulda ASKED you, b) should have been treating FOR sarcops 'just in case' -- but then, they'd say they were with the Revolution. Except it's so well known that it's not good for sarcops. 
     
    I hope this was helpful -- I feel your frustration SO much.  Truly I do.  You will need to do some thing to your own home and yard to get rid of them.  They don't live 'well' in cloth, carpet and furniture, but they CAN live long enough to stay there til they find their next host.  If you will email me and ask for that article, it does cover some of the stuff you can do in your home.
     
    Good luck.  Callie
    • Gold Top Dog
        Jackers; You need to listen to Callie and have your dog treated for sarcops ; You're getting some very good advice. I have a dog which has been diagnosed with allergies through blood and skin tests and it sounds to me like you're dealing with more than allergies because bathing everyday isn't helping. 
    • Bronze
    Thanks for all the great info...I am literally in tears right now thinking that poor Jake has microscopic bugs digging into his skin...he was up all night wimpering in discomfort.
     
    A few things:
    1. Is it possible that Jake has had this for about three years?  The reason I ask is becasue my brother, who lives downstairs from me, got a german sheppard about six months ago.  Just thinking that Jake may have gotten this from either him or he has had it the whole time.
    2. As it is Sunday and there will be no Veterinary clinics open here until Tuesday, is there anything I can do for Jake in the meantime for relief?
    • Gold Top Dog
    I didn't want the thread to just abruptly stop when Jake was in so much distress -- But Jaker's mom and I got to chat on the phone this afternoon.  A plethera of topics (anyone impressed -- that's my 'word' of the day -- 'plethera' LOL) but I think we covered a lot of ground.
     
    Bottom line, to answer her last couple of questions -- I don't think this is ONE thing.  I think it is likely many, which is why the vets haven't gotten very far.  I think it's probably important that certain things "help" -- but never 'fix' the problem.  I think that solidly indicates an underlying problem (which is likely the immune system AND maybe thyroid)  It might not be typical for a dog to have thyroid problems as a pup but it's not unheard of, but surprisingly no one has ever checked it.
     
    But Jake's Mom did find in his vet records (which she has -- I am SOOO impressed by this lady!!!  She knows what's been done, when and where!!! GOOD SHOT!!!!), he was given ivermectin probably 2+ years ago -- and ... it helped.  But my guess is because no one has ever told this lady how to get rid of the stuff in her house, the sarcops hiding in bedding, carpet, pillows, etc. just wait til the dog walks back around 24 hours later ... jump back on and here we go again!!
     
    I think he's also a mega allergy dog -- but probably to things like all the classics (pollen, grasses, etc.) but also indoor atopic allergens like carpet, etc.  When she moved into her new house, which had been gutted (all fabric removed, etc.) -- he got better .. FOR A WHILE. 
     
    never all the way better -- which still points to something under the surface and hiding - but enough better to point to likely potential allergens that likely get in there and 'stir the pot' so to speak. 
     
    He reminds me so much of my Billy it's scarey.  She's got a lot of things to do and treat but let's see if we can peel it all away and get this dog some help.  Poor Jake --
     
    Oh, boy .. here I go again.  I'm "Aunt Callie" to another one.   It is just a darned good thing I don't have to send all these "neices and nephews" (dogs) of mine to school or feed them -- but then ... that's the good thing about being "Aunt" -- It's so much fun to just help a bit!!! 
    • Gold Top Dog
    And you are a great "Aunt" to have, says Emma. She's sooooo glad of all the stuff you've told us about to try, like the homeopathic "doggy candy" that she loves so much, and the demodex treatments that have pretty much saved her life (since everything the vet offered her was so toxic and would have ended up killing her).

    Sarcops are creepy little things, aren't they? I'm so fortunate that the only sarcoptic dog I've had to deal with was so young, that it was fine to confine him to a tiny area, while I bottle raised and treated his mites. I can't imagine having them all over the place.

    I hope that Jake and his mom can get some definite answers, and Jake can start getting better!
    • Gold Top Dog
     
    (anyone impressed -- that's my 'word' of the day -- 'plethera' LOL)


    Wow Callie!!!!   I'm Impressed!!!

    You know, this kind of reminds me of Ollie,,he ALSO started with his problems at about 6 months, and all of the vaccinations and all, that is why we assume his immune system has been weakened from them. But I will never forget that he had been scaped by two different vets because of his symptoms, and always came out negative.  But then Michael (Ollies Dad) started going with his GF and she all of a sudden started itching with little bumps. She went to the doctor and he said she had Scabies that she either got from a dog or bird. Since she hadn't been by a bird, it was Ollie.  Mike was happy that it happened, saying now at last for sure he should have some of his problems solved. So they treated Ollie for them with whatever,,,and it did'nt make a change what so ever.  Who knows about GF but I don't really believe she had them either, she is one of these girls that "has every illness possible" and I've  never heard anything more about them.  It just seems like such a hard thing to deal with since it seems your never sure.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I told Jaker's mom yesterday that such stuff can almost self-resolve OR keep going if the dog is getting them from wildlife sarcops.  Even a walk in the park ... a dog can sniff around a nest or where a squirrel has scratched and the sarcops will willingly jump on that warm-blooded host.
     
    All it takes is for the park to banish the squirrels or that particular one getting killed.  And if you have any wildlife at home -- deer, fox, possum, etc. -- they continously seek out the dog as a warm blooded food source, but don't breed well in dog skin so it can almost come and go ... unless the dog is consistently exposed.
    • Bronze
    So...Auntie Callie and had a nice long chat...sorry I haven't been back to give you an update but we had quite the weekend here.  As Monday was a holiday here in Canada...I woke up and made a nice breakfast for the family.  As I was in the Kitchen I noticed that Jake was OVERLY itchy...totally out of control and then out of the corner of my eye..................I noticed that his entire groin area was swollen, very red and had a discharge.  I was at the least, very upset and knew I had to find an emergency veterinary clinic...and one close by as I couldn't jam Jake and my two boys in my little two door cavalier.  I found one that...luck would have it was a 20 minute walk from my house!  So we went...and what a walk it was with a VERY ITCHY JAKE.  He had a skin infection and fever...not to mention the "possibility" of mange which I had to explain to the Vet as she was totally baffled as to what was wrong. I insisted that he be treated (thanks to auntie callie) for sarcops and refused the skin scrapping as it would just be an additional cost...and as I was in a veterinary emergency room things were already expensive.  I then, believe it or not, told the vet what to prescribe to Jake for his current condition which included an antibiotic and a specific shampoo.  The vet openly admited that this case was way beyond her expertise and recommended a specific vet in the city...well guess what...she recommended that same vet I had been taking Jake to for the past 2 or more years that I have spent over $5000 on!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    All that being said, I am doing my research to find an experienced dermotolagist and/or trusted holistic vet in my city...Callie has recommended one that has expertise in acupuncture which is part of my search.
     
    Jake seems to be doing better...gonna give him his first bath with Benzoyl Peroxide shampoo momentarily...hope that helps with the infection.  Not sure about the effects of the Ivomec as he was dosed up on Benadryl when it was given.  When he gets his next dose I will make sure he is not on any Benadryl so I can see if there is any significant effect.
     
    I am also continueing his NZYMES treats for his immune system and will be visiting a "natural" store this weekend to explore/research some alternate medicines to boost his immune system.
     
    Thanks again so much for all your support and input...it's nice to know that there are other people out there that understand what we are going through and have some insite!
     
    PS-I would love to load a picture of Jake but it says my file is too big?  What am I doing something wrong?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Oh wow,,,,,,,,,,boy you have been thru it all!  Gee sorry your having so much trouble,,, poor Jake!
    You sound encouraged though,,,and that is good. Yep, its good to have people like Callie for help!  Hang in there,, I just know you will get to the bottom of it all.
    If you have any picture editing programs, you need to resize your picture I believe to about 128.