Hip Surgery/supplements

Hi David...
My young lab had hip surgery a few months ago now. I use a lot of supplements...
Glyco Flex III (it has MSM Glucosamin Chondroitin and Green Lipped Mussels)... I've been looking at a similar formula made by www.thewholisticpet.com and am considering switching
vit C to tolerance (supports joints)
Natural Pet Pharmaceuticals Muscle, Joint, and Arthritis Pain homeopathic formula that goes in his water dish or Rhus tox 30x another homeopathic arthtritis support (the water dish formula is effective even when you have other animals, b/c it is safe and will not harm them)
Knox Nutra Joint (from Walmart... it has calcium and gelation to actually rebuild cartilage after using it for about three months)
Deep Sea Salmon Oil... for joints and coat issues.

Overall, I've seen varied levels of improvements from all of these things that I use. The Glyco Flex III seems to be quite effective, as well as the Vit. C (I see much more limping without it)
the homeopathics are ones that some lab owners in my community swear by, that particular brand jumps off the shelves at my health food store and she has to hoard it behind the ocunter to save it for people!
I haven't used the Knox long enough to se improvement, it's only been a month and a half now... several individuals that have arthritis on this board swear by it.

It all depends on your dog's symptoms and what you want to achieve. I have a dog who had two TPO's and the second was done too late and he still has hip dysplasia which is why I am using this much to try and build back cartilage. I won't be using all of these supplements for his lifetime.

What hip surgery did your lab have? Does he have arthritis? What are you looking to achieve?

I have a 83lb Golden.. How much Vitamin C do you give? Where do you buy it?

Ester-C is most recommended - with bioflavanoids if you can. 
 
You can find it at any health food store.  I buy the powdered Ester-C with bioflavanoids so I can change the dose easier and it's easier to mix into food.  Antioxidants in general are wise to add.
 
As for dosage - I would start at 500 mg/day and increase to bowel tolerance. Vit C is notorious for giving loose stools if too much is given so if he does ok on 500, increase in 100 mg increments per day until you see a change in the stools - if the stools get too soft, back off the dosage a bit.  Jillian is around 120 lbs and does well at 1000mg twice a day.
 
There are many, many different supplement options from glucosamine, condroitin, msm blends to herbals for inflamation to herbals to support and strenghten tendons and ligaments to homepathics. 
 
I give my Newf (bad hips) a combination of things:  glucosamine, condroitin, msm, gelatin, SamE, salmon oil, flax, turmeric root, perilla seed, ginger root, lineolic acid , DHA, bromelian, Ester-C with bioflavanoids and a herbal combination to keep her tendons and ligaments strong. 
 
In addition, she is fed an all natural diet containing no rice or carb source aside from veggies that she sometimes eats. 
 
She is also kept slim and exercised at least twice a day to keep from stiffening up too much.
 
I have not tried DogGonePain but have heard great things about it.  When Jillian is having a tough time from over-doing it, I use a chinese herbal blend call The Great Mender that decreases pain, increases circulation to the injured area and helps heal the injury faster.
 
Jillian has not had surgery yet as we are awaiting a consultation at Tufts for hip replacement but the combination we use keeps her going quite well right now. 

I have had good success with Glycoflex III, wild salmon oil, and a controlled exercise program.  Since I have four dogs on Glyco III, and they are large and it is expensive, I have tried to switch a number of times.  However, I have always gone back.  I also like the fact that Vetri-Science is a member of the NASC (National Animal Supplement Council) and carries their quality seal, and that a safety study has been done on the product.  As someone mentioned, keeping the dog lean is imperative.  This has been proven through controlled research, and is probably the most important factor that we have control of.

lovenewfies... can you tell me more about these items and what they do/why you've decided to use them:
SamE, flax, turmeric root, perilla seed, ginger root, lineolic acid , DHA, bromelian, and a herbal combination?

just wondering... I want to make sure I'm giving Oliver the right combination of things for him as well as the things that will give him the greatest chance to save this hip and not need a third surgery in a few months since the surgeon made a bad call and did this surgery when he shouldn't have
His biggest issue is number one, the continued cartilage and bone loss due to the hip dysplasia that was not corrected since the ligaments/tendons were too stretched out when he had the TPO and two, the inability of those ligaments/tendons to tighten up now and keep his ball joint in the 25degree corrected hip socket...

Flax and perilla are both sources of omega 3, ginger root and tumeric root are used to reduce inflammation, DHA is an omega 3, the body converts lineolic acid (omega 6) into GLA which can help reduce joint inflammation, bromelian helps to inhibit pro-inflammatory compounds which reduce pain and swelling, SamE helps with pain and some claim it helps to regenerate cartilage.
 
As for the herbal supplement, horsetail herb is the main ingredient.  Horsetail is rich in organic silica, manganese and bioflavanoids - silica is used to strenghten connective tissue and aid in arthritis.  The supplement also contains boron amino acid - essential for tendon and ligament health, manganese which is needed for bone and cartilage formation, as well as glucose tolerance. It also helps activate superoxide dismutase (SOD)—an important antioxidantenzyme, and a few other herbs known for their circulatory and/or anti-inflammatory benefits.
 
I hope this is of some help.

 boron amino acid - essential for tendon and ligament health Also calcium absobtion too.
 
I also add Yucca root to my dogs food. The whole yucca root after I have cooked it and removed the strings. You can get them in the frozen food section at most Wally World, which is an anti inflamitory also. Natural. 

Horsetail is one of those herbs that is pretty strong medicine -- so make SURE your holistic vet knows about it before Oliver takes it.  I"m not saying 'bad' -- I'm saying "strong" for an herb.  It's an astringent -- it tightens (like in Oliver's case it *might* work to his benefit to tighten that hip and pull the connective tissue up as the et wants it to be and pelvic cradle as it should be).
 
BUT it has wide-range effects -- it affects the circulation and heart as well ... so I'm just saying use caution and get the vet's input on that one.  Oliver is young and you don't want something clashing -- it's not a common herb, but it's one that's gotten 'popular' all of a sudden.  I just know Oliver's on a lot of different things, so let the vet help you on that one.  Your vet is pretty progressive and would likely be a good source to go between with the surgeon to see if this might do the trick for Oliver.

I don't know callie...
It's stressful b/c I want to give him the best chance to save the hip... on the same token, I don't want to over supplement but at the same time I don't want to not give him something that could have helped. i also dont want to waste money on things that aren't beneficial for him. lol what a mess right?
I'm not sure my vet would be the best to ask about horsetail since I don't think he had enough training when it comes to herbs. Too bad I don't bring Oliver to a real holistic vet
I'm thinking that i should add some natural anti inflammatories to my concoction though...
by the way, he's almost completely off the metamucil

hmmm.. i was reading something that said that by reducing the inflammation to arthritic joints and damaged joints, we are reducing the blood flow that would actually work to repair. So it said while the inflammation causes pain, that inflammation is the body's response to try and heal the joint...
thoughts?

MASSAGE.  There's bad inflammation and good inflammation.  Now you know I"m always saying to keep anti-inflammatories (like NSAIDs to a minimum) -- relax the muscles and you won't have to use so much.
 
But massage is going to do SO much to increase that circulation. 
 
I have a feeling there's likely some real truth to that article BUT I think it's speaking about taking ALL inflammation away (so there is no chance of pain) but you can do it other ways and SOME pain isn't a bad thing because it keeps you from being foolish.  Pain is necessary to a dog to keep him from over-doing constantly.
 
So to compensate the massage will help the circulation a great deal. It also helps after a workout -- when you over stress muscles you actually 'tear' them ... which is fine .. that IS how you 'gain' ... because every time they heal they heal a bit stronger.  But at the same time you have to massage to squeeze the old blood out and replace it with clean blood that will heal.    That's the purpose, in truth, of a 'cool down' in massage.

I will definitely agree that massage helps tremendously.  Jillian will actually go over to where I keep her oils that I use to massage her hips and lower back and ask for a massage when she's sore.
 
Horsetail is quite the medicinal herb and it is always wise to seek the advice of a qualified holistic vet when considering adding any herbal supplements to your dogs regimen.  
 
We have to remember that herbs are medicine - they are all natural and available without a dr's prescription, but, all need to be treated as though they are medicine.  And, as with people, every dog is different so results and reactions will vary.

I tried Doggonepain for about 3 months.  I did not see any difference with it.  I've heard some people have good results with it.  There's Cayenne pepper (I think that was it) in it, and we had quite a reaction to that at the back end for about a week.

David--what's going on with Parker? It's been a year since his sugery, how is he?
 
Yes, I've been paying attention. You know--you helped me to understand HD quite a bit when I was a newbie--both here and to it.
 
How is the big guy?