Dog Community

We need help

Posted : 3/26/2007 12:50:06 PM

Hi folks. *sigh* This is gonna be a long one again. The last time I posted I was writing about our dog, Lady, and her severe thunderstorm phobia. I mentioned how we'd tried basically every "natural" remedy, tried desensitization, and that we even got a prescription for a sedative from our vet (after he went through the let's-try-these-first phase of using DAP collars, etc.) She's had a full physical in the recent past (twice, actually, because we got her one when we first adopted her and then the vet did another before prescribing a sedative - he wanted to make sure she was healthy enough to take them and that she didn't have some other medical issue. Both times any blood tests, etc, she had done were fine, and the vet even said she was in great shape for an 8 year old dog.)

Long story short, nothing has worked. Nothing. Even the sedatives just basically slow her down a bit, but they don't keep her from pacing, panting, ripping up the carpeting/pulling down the drapes/breaking things(!!), having accidents, generally freaking out. (This dog does none of these things under any other circumstances.)

Now we're getting into thunderstorm season here in the Midwest. It's awful, every day I have to go to work I am filled with fear about leaving her alone. Some days I have my mom come over and watch her, and we are now looking into some kind of dog day care (though it is very expensive - cost is not really an issue, but still.) I dread opening the door when I get home from work on the off chance that some minor storm went through while we were gone and she's ripped up the house (or worse, hurt herself.) The worst part is, it's not the loud noise that gets her - it's the change in the air before a storm, she could care less about loud noises, so we can't even desensitize her.

Tomorrow we are probably going to take her to a day boarding place because it is supposed to storm and she simply cannot be left home alone at this point. We're also going to try talking to the vet again to see if he can offer us any other options. I feel so bad because she's probably going to be terrified of being left at a strange place/think we're giving her away (which has happened to her twice already,) but the only other choice would be to leave her at home and risk losing all of our carpeting and possibly our dog.

I'm not sure what I'm asking or why I'm posting at this point -- venting, I guess. I just feel like no one can understand what we're going through -- everyone keeps saying "Oh, we had a dog who was scared of storms, she would always hide under the bed/wet the floor/cry/etc" -- people, I would consider any of those scenarios to be a blessing at this point. This is basically a full-scale panic attack, and I can't just let her live like this -- it's not safe for her, it's not safe for the house, and at this point it's not good for our mental health, either. It's getting to the point where *I'm* afraid of thunderstorms and check the weather compulsively at work because I'm so afraid she'll be at home flipping out.

Obviously we're not going to give her away or put her to sleep or anything over this, we adore her and she's a sweet dog who has been through a lot, but I just feel like there has to be *something * we can do to help her...otherwise I'm looking at all three of us living like this for the rest of this poor dog's life! [

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akane

Posted : 3/26/2007 1:15:35 PM

I'm sorry that I can't offer any advice but I just wanted to send some hugs your way. I hope something can be worked out.

(((((((((( Lady and April )))))))))))

cakana

Posted : 3/26/2007 1:16:48 PM

Is crating her not an option? I know that sometimes dogs will injurt themselves when crated and in panic mode, and it's hard to imagine you haven't thought of the crate, but thought I'd ask. There are many different types of meds for anxiety in dogs, so perhaps you can try a different one. In one of the Whole Dog Journal issues several months back, there was an excellent article in there specifically about this problem. I remember that finding the right medications took some time and several changes were needed. Do you get that periodical? If so, I think you can go into back issues. I'm sorry I don't have any experience to share, but I totally understand your concern and frustration. I hope someone has some suggestions for you.

dogslife

Posted : 3/26/2007 1:39:59 PM

Maybe she needs a job to do. I wonder about the female dogs. Mine is hi- strung too. Wonder if they had puppies that they would have slowed down.

In any case, sounds like you love her and she is cute. How long have you had her for? Sometimes damage done before you got her may take a long while to work through.

With my girl, she is slow to progress to behaviors I want sometimes, but she is at a snails pace. She requires watching. Patience is probably one of your best and developing qualities, that is how it works here!

jennie_c_d

Posted : 3/26/2007 2:03:46 PM

Can you get in touch with a behaviorist? That's what I'd do. There are prescription anxiety medications (not sedatives) that might help, and there may even be some sort of behavior modification training that's specialized to this type of behavior.

April

Posted : 3/26/2007 2:29:58 PM

Thanks, everyone. This board has been such an enormous help since we adopted Lady last summer. When we first got her, she was a lot more withdrawn (this board helped us find a great trainer to help us build her confidence,) and also helped us get through her enormous flea infestation/tapeworm infection (which her former owners dropped her off at the shelter with.) [

] This phobia stuff is by far the biggest hurdle we've undertaken with this dog, but I'm not giving up on her! [

]

My husband got an appt with our vet (which is also where the day boarding is, which is kind of nice -- I'm actually sort of hoping a storm will go through while she's there and they can see what we are talking about.) Tomorrow evening she has an appt with the vet, so we can talk to him and find out if he can recommend some other treatments.

I don't know much about what her life was like before she came to live with us, but I'm starting to think that the thunderstorms just exacerbate a preexisting anxiety condition. Lady is a little bit skittish (though not overly so,) but she's also very not into toys (she reacts a little like you're going to throw the toy at her), and she never, ever barks, which I've always thought is kind of...odd. She also gets freaked out by weird random things like the basement door being open, having to climb up the stairs at certain times of the day, etc...she doesn't do anything bad, she just gets kind of pouty/backs away, etc.

Actually, to answer someone's question about crating, yeah - she hates the crate. I'm guessing she was not crate trained as a puppy and now associates the crate with being punished (sometimes when we've put her in the crate, just to try and get her used to it, she gets visibly stressed out (panting, etc.) And yes, as you mention, we are afraid of leaving her alone in the crate all day for fear she will injure herself trying to escape.

...[

] I'm really not trying to make her sound totally neurotic! She is such a sweet, easygoing dog 99% of the time...but I'm really desperate for some more options on this problem. Thanks for all your replies, guys.

JoAnnDe

Posted : 3/26/2007 7:09:20 PM

I want to add my support here - you're doing so great for her. I KNOW in my heart that your efforts will be rewarded. You've gotten some great advice so far - hopefully one of these will do the trick (I particularlly like the med change idea - I know that I suffer from clinical depression and it took a couple of med changes before I felt normal again)

J M

Posted : 3/26/2007 7:31:11 PM

Zeus is a little freaky of storms, but not terribly so. So, I really don't know if this applies. Just offerring the tiny bit that I have to offer.

You mentioned a basement...I put Zeus in the basement, turn on the washer or dryer (both if it is a bad storm) run the hot water so the hot water heater kicks on, and even if need be, run the heater or air conditioner.

As you can see, all of this stuff is in my basement. It causes a lot of white noise that he finds to be soothing and muffles the sound of the storm.

I'm sorry. I wish I could be more help. I wish you all the luck in the world.

janet_rose

Posted : 3/27/2007 12:20:48 AM

Have you tried these:

Gentle Leader Calming Cap [link>http://www.sitstay.com/store/health/anxiety.shtml]www.sitstay.com/store/health/anxiety.shtml[/link][/size]

Anxiety Wrap (or a t-shirt snugged with a large safety pin may also work)
[link>http://www.sitstay.com/store/clothing/anxwrap.shtml]www.sitstay.com/store/clothing/anxwrap.shtml[/link][/size]

spiritdogs

Posted : 3/27/2007 5:52:21 AM

I second Janet's suggestion of the anxiety wrap. If that doesn't work, have her evaluated by a veterinarian who is also a behaviorist. Perhaps there is a combo of medications or a protocol that can help you even if it's just the "air", and not the noise. Don't forget, though - dogs can hear the noise way sooner than we can. They also make associations - example: "when I hear raindrops, that noise is going to happen". So, some dogs panic when they hear rain before the thunder.

April

Posted : 3/27/2007 7:09:17 AM

Thanks guys...we have tried the wrap, unfortunately it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. We have also thought about putting her in the basement, but (ugh!) she's kind of afraid of the basement, and we're alo fearful of leaving her alone down there while we are at work (wouldn't want her to start destroying the furnace or something!)

Today she has her vet appt, and she's going to be boarded there during the day since we are due for a couple of storms. If he doesn't have any good ideas we might look for a different vet who is a behaviorist -- even if he does have some ideas, I think we are still going to look for a behaviorist and see if they can help her. I hope she doesn't totally flip out there...my husband pointed out that at least when she's at the vet, we know she won't be hurting herself home alone (my biggest fear in all of this is that I was going to come home and find her bleeding all over the place from breaking things in the house and hurting herself.) *sigh*

So I guess we'll see how today goes, and what the vet says. Poor Lady!

dogslyfe

Posted : 3/27/2007 8:36:13 AM

I have a very thunderphobic dog - and I do agree... if one has never had a severely thunderphobic dog it's hard to understand. June is an indiscriminant bolter - she dashes, darts, and runs blindly. I have no doubt she'd go through a window if given the opportunity.

My vet initially prescribed "Ace" - which actually, IMO, made things worse. As did the Clomicalm. I will never, EVER allow another of my dogs to have Ace again - it causes more problems than it solves.

Right now my holistic vet has us trying out "NutriCalm". So far it seems to be doing well. I initially tried crating her during a storm and she was none too happy, but after a few tries she started feeling much safer about it.

If you think she's responding to the electricity in the air, you may want to take a look at this: [linkhttp://www.stormdefender.com/how_it_works.htm]Storm Defender Cape[/link]

Might be worth a try. If June hadn't been seeing the improvements that she has, I would have asked for Xanax or something in that class of drugs. I would have been looking for a feel-good med that was more short acting - but not a sedative like Ace.

You may want to consider crate training her. Yes, I know she's not a big fan, but at this point her life may depend on it.

April

Posted : 3/27/2007 9:26:23 AM

I agree about the crate training -- my husband and I said last week that we'd like to slowly get her used to the crate, and teach her to feel safe there. Today at the vet's she'll be in a crate all day so we'll see how she handled that. My husband dropped her off this morning and said they sounded very understanding, and that they promised to check on her frequently, especially if storms come through. She'll also get to go outside, which she obviously doesn't get to do while we're not home, so at least she gets one perk! [

]

I agree that the sedatives were not the best thing in the world -- it actually kind of freaked me out to see her on them, plus like I said before, it didn't really stop any of her bad behaviors, it just made her slower.

I still feel sad/guilty for her having to be crated at a strange place, but at the same time, it's a huge relief just knowing she's somewhere with people who know a lot about dogs instead of just home by herself where anything could be happening. I feel like I can actually focus on work now...speaking of which...I guess I should go back to my desk! [

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janet_rose

Posted : 3/27/2007 6:40:14 PM

Have you tried acupuncture or herbal remedies? A vet that uses Chinese medicine can complement (not replace) your traditional vet.

Easy Does It Formula
[linkhttp://b-naturals.com/product_info.php?products_id=50]http://b-naturals.com/product_info.php?products_id=50[/link]

The site below is for people, but canines are not that different from people. The nutrients mentioned should be taken in doggie dosages, of course.
[linkhttp://www.acupuncture.com/conditions/anxietyc.htm]www.acupuncture.com/conditions/anxietyc.htm[/link]

"Nutritional and Herbal Therapy for Anxiety

. Include calcium (1,000 mg a day) and magnesium (500 mg a day) supplements to your diet. Try taking half the amount in the morning and half at night to increase better absorption of calcium. Also, take a B complex (50 to 100 mg a day, best in the morning) to decrease stress effects.
. Avoid stimulating foods and drinks: caffeine, sugar, processed foods and alcohol. Avoid foods that commonly cause food sensitivities (peanuts, soy, dairy, wheat, corn, shell fish). ...
. There are some very safe and effective Chinese herbal formulas that help decrease anxiety and help improve sleep such as Gui Pi Tang, Bai Zi Yang Xin Wan and Tian Wang Bu Xin Dan."

Chi Institute - Chinese Veterinary Medicine
[linkhttp://www.tcvm.com/]http://www.tcvm.com/[/link]

April

Posted : 3/27/2007 10:02:04 PM

Well, it looks like things went pretty good at the vet's today, actually -- no horror stories about Lady going crazy, and she seemed pretty collected when we came to pick her up (and she doesn't seem to be harboring resentment towards us for leaving her there. [

]) She's now snoozing away. The vet checked her out, and once again said she looked good and he wasn't seeing any signs of neurological problems or anything else to be worried about as an underlying factor (which, hey, is always nice to hear.)

We explained the situation to him, and told him the sedative wasn't going to be an option for us. He did give us a different drug to try that is not a sedative that we can use in conjunction with behavior modification. He also gave us a number of a behaviorist that we can contact, which was cool. He is, fortunately, not one of those "oh here, just pump your dog full of pills" kind of doctors, and really did listen to our situation and recognized that we aren't just looking for a quick fix, we just need to have a way to settle her down enough to work on modifying the behaviors. He said that is the best way to approach it and many times if it is successful the dogs do not need to take the meds forever. It was nice to hear him tell us to let him know how things are going; he seemed genuinely interested in helping our dog.

So, I am cautiously optimistic that this could be something that helps her. We have tried many different approaches at this point (from every realm -- natural, medical, etc,) so I'm not banking on anything yet, but hopefully these meds along with a good trainer will help our dog get over her fears. (We will of course be keeping a close eye on her to make sure she is not having any adverse reactions to the pills.) And, hopefully, it will spare our carpeting and vertical blinds (one of which she literally bit in half a few days ago,) and our sanity, too! [

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