Dog Community

My dog needs help!! What is this problem?

Posted : 1/15/2007 11:31:05 AM

Hi, I'm a new member, and am trying to reach out for help and answers for my dog. He is about 4 1/2 years old, male Brittany Spaniel. He is not neutered yet, but that will be happening soon, but his skin problem are using all the money right now. So here is the story.

Last summer a flea treatment was missed. I had been using Frontline. So he got a decent 'bad' amount of fleas for a month or so. The dog lives at my parents house, and is outside as much as he wants. There are indoor/outdoor cats as well, and acres and acres for him to get dirty and get bugs & the like. He had never had any problems untill last summer though. I noticed that the flea bites were abnormally red and irritated. He was licking them a lot, and seemed very itchy. The bites were all over and some had scabs and looked pretty bad. So I started bathing him a lot, getting all the fleas off, putting hydrocortisone lotion on them, and also septi-clense lotion along with Sulfodine. Every day I check him, cleaning his spots that look bad, and after about a month the majority had healed up and he was looking better.

At the same time as all of this, my mom had run out of the 'good' dog food I buy him, and had been feeding him some Iams canned food. The other thing that happened was in the fold of his neck it got very raw and goopy. He has an electric fence and right where the box on the color is, in the folds of his skin on the kneck, all the hair fell out, and it got very raw, red rashy, goopy. We used Sulfadine on that and it actually cleared up after about a week and never came back. Also, during the height of this, his hair was getting very thin on his rump and underside and there were scabs all over his back end/rump area.

One of the things I did was lots of research on the internet, and it seemed like a flea allergy. So I started giving him the proper dose of Benadryl. This helped a lot, and really helped clear him up. I also took him to the vet, and he basically told me to keep him on the Benadryl for a few weeks and he gave him a cortisone shot. Buckley (my dog) had also been licking at his anus a lot during this, so while at the vet he had his anal sacs expressed.

So that is where I was at the end of the summer. He was fairly cleared up while on the medicine, and I thought he was getting better. But once the cortisone had worn off, and he was done witht he benadryl, the spots started coming back. Every week, or two he would get about 6 or so 'spots'. These were just like red little areas that seemed inflamed, and he would lick at them a lot and they would be very irritated. So we would put septi-clense on them, or hydracortisone cream and they would kind of diminish but not completely go away. Then a week or so later, they would be back. I tried the Benadryl again when I saw some areas flair up and him start licking them. This helped to a degree, but they just kept coming back.

So that was how it was for the fall. Every week & half, or two he would get half a dozen of these and we would try and treat them. But then on Christmas he broke out fairly bad. His kneck got realy raw and goopy again, which had not happened since the summer. I tried to think what triggered this, and found out my mom had fed him some of the Iams canned food again, and it was literally like over night that his kneck broke out. So then I thought maybe it was a food allergy. The vet didn't think so because he didn't show any other signs like vomitting or diarhea. I currently have him on the Natural Balance brown rice/ vension allergy food exclusivley to see if that helps. But I also took him to the vet again.

At the vet I explained all of this just as I have, and she seemed to think it is probably a flea allergy. And maybe thats true, but thats a big problem where he lives. I am getting both the cats on flea medicine, but the amount he is outside, it seems there is always one or two fleas on him. He has been on flea control (advantage is what the vet recommended) every three weeks. And yet, even just a week or less after I put the flea medicine on him, I might see a flea on him, like literally just one. And yes, I know it only takes one to trigger a reaction. But thats the weird thing. There have been many times that he has maybe one flea on him, but he doesn't have any break outs or spots, and seems to be getting better. So if it was a flea allergy it seems like he would certainly break out when he has a flea on him, but that is not always the case... so thats kind of confusing to me. It always just follows a weekly or 10-14 day pattern more or less.

At the vet, she shaved his kneck and cleaned it up, gave him another cortisone injection, and took skin scrapings. He had a bacterial skin infection, which really could have been on going since the summer. So now he is on antibiotics for three weeks, he has about a week to go before those are done. She said he has pyoderma

So now for the current problem. He responded very well to the antibiotics. Everything really started clearing up very very well after a few days, and his fur was getting very long on his under belly. But maybe about a week ago he got new spots/eruptions happening. The first one was right next to one of his nipples and was actually bleeding. Then the next day he had one in almost the same spot but on the opposite side, again close to a nipple. Then another lesser one or two appeared, all having very dark bloody scabs. His kneck area also had began to get a very dark scabby thing on it. It also began to stink really bad. Basically all the exact places he used to get the red infalmed hot spots. But now they are much worse with larger crusty scabs and even bleeding. Today I found one of his armpits had some general redness/scabiness. The entire area looks like there is small little dried blood at the base of every hair folicle. So it actually resembles flea dirt, but there is no way it is because its such a large area, and appeared in just hours. That is like in his kneck and armpit, the other areas are mainly scabs. It cleans up ok with hydrogen peroxide. I also found a large crusty scab on his rib area which seems to have apperaed over night. It is almost dime size and one of the pictures.

Ok, so now what? I read that deeper bacertial infections can need to be treated for up to 1-3 months. Could this still just be the same bacterial infection, even though he's been on the antibiotics for over two weeks? It is on the same 1-2 week cycle of flairing up as before, but why are the spots so much worse now that he is on the antibiotics? Or is this something else? I took some pictures and hopefully they work. This was right after I cleaned them a bit with hydrogen peroxide and the pictures make them look a bit wetter or bloodier then they are.

I really just need some help because I am in college and running so low on money for all of this. I was so excited because I thought he was getting better, but now I don't know. I am at my wits end with this, day in and day out checking him and cleaning them, I just want to know whats wrong and when/if it will get better. Here are some pictures from this morning.

[linkhttp://img413.imageshack.us/img413/3662/pic004iv9.jpg]http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/3662/pic004iv9.jpg[/link]

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9230/pic006zx8.jpg

[linkhttp://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4868/pic007gh0.jpg]http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4868/pic007gh0.jpg[/link]

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6598/pic008kq8.jpg

[linkhttp://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1619/pic009jy2.jpg]http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1619/pic009jy2.jpg[/link]

Dan Wilcox

Posted : 1/15/2007 12:02:52 PM

Udate:

Well I just called my vet and told her about it, and she said that what this means is that the cortisone injection has worn off, and since he is having these problems right away, that it means he probably has not only a flea allergy but a food or inhalent allergy as well.

So she wants to start giving him a perscription antihistime. She doesn't think benadryl is good because it takes so much and she doesn't think its affective. There are three levels or types of perscription ones and she thinks only the strongest one will be affective. So she wants me to give him one every 8-12 hours, which will be like $60 per month! I can't do that. I would consider one a day, but damn it, how do I know shes right? She would also want to do a perscription food trial, because she doesn't think Anything from the store is good enough or whatever, but the Natural Balance allergy food is really good, but I dont know. Anyone have any thoughts?

ladiebug

Posted : 1/15/2007 12:12:52 PM

Welcome to the forum.

Wow! You and you're poor dog. I can only share my experience this past year with my GSD and his allergies. I thought I was going to lose my mind, but the information and instructions my vet gave me along with the information I found on this forum saved us from losing our minds!

The last photo you posted looks similar to what Draico had his first bout with allergies. The vet examined him and concluded it was Atopy (airborne allergies), in Florida they're the norm, unfortunately. He gave Draico a shot and a Rx for Prednisone; which I wasn't too happy giving my dog steroids, but it it was only for a week and it helped.

Once his allergies cleared up, I "beefed" up my dogs diet; they get sweet potatoes with liver (chicken or beef) twice a week, heart (chix or bf) twice a week, sardines, mackerel, or salmon 3 times a week; and they were (and are) getting Stoneyfield's Plain yogurt with fish oil nightly. Plus, I'm trying to incorporate Kale into their diets. This is all to support the immune system.

About 6 weeks ago, Draico had another bout with allergies; but this time it was much worse at his hind end. I thought I had it under control, but it was close to a Staph infection. I took him in and the vet said it was a flea allergy. Of course, I couldn't believe it because, as I explained, I check them for fleas nightly, and have seen NO signs. He explained to me that all it takes it one bite and the animal will have a reaction as the flea's saliva is highly allergenic. OK, my dog needs relief, so he

rescribed antibiotics this time for 10 days, I gave it to Draico, and the condition cleared up.

I bought Coal Tar shampoo to bathe them with, and a fellow member, Callie, suggested I rinse them with a Tea Tree Oil solution (10 drops oil per gallon water). So, I used fairly warm water for the bath, then mixed the oil with a bit cooler water to rinse, and they LOVED it. I mixed a quart of the oil solution and keep it in a spray bootle in my garage. Before the dogs come inside, I spray them, towel wipe them, then brush them. Also, now when I apply the Frontline oil, I start at the base of the tail and apply it along the length of the spine, not just between the shoulder blades as directed; it seems to work better.

The allergies have cleared up, Draico has not had any more reactions. I keep a close eye on both dogs, if they seem to be scratching too much, OR if they bite their feet, I'll give them a dose of Benadryl. My vet instructed me on the dosage was 1mg per pound every 8 hours. Peanut was bitten by an ant one day, so I used some Benadryl spray on that bite, and it cleared up in 2 days.

Oh, their food, they get Royal Canin Maxi GSD formula for breakfast, and the home cooked for dinner. And I truly believe that the home cooked has boosted their immune systems, and I KNOW that the yogurt saved us from Draico's killer farts when he was on the antibiotics.

Please search for Callie's (calliecritturs) posts, she's extremely knowlegable about these things and offers terrific advice, solutions.

Dan Wilcox

Posted : 1/15/2007 12:40:52 PM

Thanks for the tips/support ladiebug. I know lots of people go throught his, but he doesn'tt seem to get better so its really frustrating. I think I'm going to try putting him on an anti-histamine again because that seemed to help before. This vet seems to insist on prescription only which I don't realy want. I would much rather find a natural way to cure him. But before he was on Benaadryl and it seemed fairly effective and is Sooo much more affordable then this perscription stuff she wants to give him. But I've tried to control his contact with fleas, and changed his diet to be really healthy, and nothing seems to help. It could be an atopic allergy from inside my parents old house, but I don't know how to control that really. So I guess I'll try two tablets of Benadryl a day and see if that helps, but I don't know if thats good for him or not......[>:]

jessies_mom

Posted : 1/15/2007 4:32:46 PM

So she wants to start giving him a perscription antihistime. She doesn't think benadryl is good because it takes so much and she doesn't think its affective. There are three levels or types of perscription ones and she thinks only the strongest one will be affective. So she wants me to give him one every 8-12 hours, which will be like $60 per month! I can't do that. I would consider one a day, but damn it, how do I know shes right? She would also want to do a perscription food trial, because she doesn't think Anything from the store is good enough or whatever, but the Natural Balance allergy food is really good, but I dont know. Anyone have any thoughts

Hi and welcome to the forum; [

] Natural Balance now includes flaxseed , which is a common ingredient in most dog foods, in it's formulas so I don't think it's a good food to use for an allergy food trial anymore. IVD makes some good allergy diets; potato and rabbit, venison, fish, or duck, have similar protein to NB (19%) and they don't use artificial preservatives. You could also cook using a 50-50 mix of one protein he hasn't had before such as pork, and one new carb such as buckwheat, but you'd need to add a multi-vitamin.

   You are right about deeper infections needing long term treatment; [linkhttp://www.hillary.net/school/dermatology/derm.lec.10.30.98]http://www.hillary.net/school/dermatology/derm.lec.10.30.98[/link];
" the most common cause of an inability to
resolve skin infection or for relapse days after tx is *insufficient
duration of therapy*"

Concerning antihistamines, the one my veterinary dermatologist prescribed for Jessie, called Doxipin, worked better than any of the OTC ones. Also, of the OTC antihistamines, Tavist worked better than Benedryl or chloraphineramine maleate. Here's a link to the dosage to give dogs according to their weight of the different antihistamines;   [linkhttp://www.utskinvet.org/pdf/antihists.pdf]http://www.utskinvet.org/pdf/antihists.pdf[/link] ; you are probably not giving your dog enough Benedryl. Jessie is 63 pounds and can 2 Benedryl 3 times a day. They are safe for giving to dogs long term and any sleepy side effects usually wear off after a few weeks. Check this thread for other suggestions;   [linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=240720]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=240720[/link] . I gotta run so hope this helps.

Jenny Stromsdorfer

Posted : 1/15/2007 9:00:58 PM

Guster900 - welcome to my life. I, too, have a Brit. She's 8 years old and we went through the EXACT same thing. The pics you posted look just like Bogey's belly. I used to use Benadryl and it no longer was working. It all started when she had terrible fleas last summer. We finally got rid of them and over that hurdle. Then the itching never stopped and the chewing and gnawing at her toes and pads. I know money is hard for you, but it is pricy. We had her tested for allergies and the results that came back shocked not only me and my hubby but the vet. She's allergic to many foods: corn, beef, lamb, turkey and milk, as well as outdoor stuff: grasses, weeds, pollens, ants, bugs, fleas, etc and indoor she's allergic to dust, dustmites, and many others. So, she's itchy no matter what. We decided the next route to go was allergy shots. We've been doing them for about 2 months now and we are beginning to see an improvement. We are feeding her Natural Choice Senior mixed with Nature's Recipe vegetarian canned. We are extremely careful and read all the labels of anything we feed her anymore. So, it's a learning experience. I feel bad for you since your situation sounds exactly like ours and it's pricey and money is tough for you. You said that your dog lives with your folks. Is there any way they could help you out?

sallya

Posted : 1/16/2007 4:16:38 PM

I always say this. Been through AWFUL allergies with food and pollen, dust etc. I wasted money and time and finally went to a dermatologist. They are the best to help with skin and allergy problems. He has her all well now.

Trudy eats Natural Balance Fish. It is great food for her and her coat has never been better, skin too. This photo shows how pretty her hair is. She was SO ill with allergies before we went to the dermalologist. They find the cause and then no steroids are needed. It does cost money, but dogs need help when they are ill.

calliecritturs

Posted : 1/17/2007 12:38:36 AM

Given your financial situation you may just need to do what you CAN do now. There are a lot of things you can do for allergies. And there are some better ways of dealing with them than others.

It's probably environmental + food.

Supplement the food with omega 3's in a big way. Flax (if you can grind your own it's cheaper if you want to add to what's in natural balance -- don't use human flax oil ... it's both expensive and it won't work well with the dog's system. But fish oil -- sardines, jack mackerel, etc. -- or even fish oil capsules GIVEN WITH antihistamine can help in a big way.

You have to dose benedryl right for it to work and frankly your vet's kinda off target on the antihistamine. IF the Benedryl is helping then fine. But use 1 mg/lb body weight -- and give it three times a day if you can.

all antihistamines are dosed differently -- but Benedryl is cheap and it's effective for your dog so don't worry about it right now.

Frequent bathing is a big deal with allergies -- use either tea tree or lavender in your final rinse and it can help the coat from becoming too dry. Tea tree is cheap -- Wal-mart has it for $5 for a 2 oz bottle -- 20 drops in the final 2 gallons of rinse water will do a LOT to help control itch, keep away staph infection and keep the coat soft and not dry. Lavender is GREAT but it's a more expensive oil -- get a small bottle and add just a few drops of the lavender to the tea tree and it helps cut that intense smell of the tea tree.

Fleas- Frontline or Advantage are a must -- you don't want to use anyting on a flea allergic dog that means the flea HAS to bite the dog to die. So no Revolution, Bio Spot (which is bad bad stuff anyway) ... but again, if you can get your hands on some old Avon Skin So Soft bath oil. -- half a teas. in 8 oz of water and about 4 oz of alcohol -- that makes a dandy spritz to spray on the dog every few days to help repel fleas. (Your dog may look at you like "MOM -- you're making me smell like a French House of Ill Repute!!" -- but it does help *grin*)

Frankly I would threaten your mother within an inch of her life if she ever feeds Iams to this dog again - it's JUST not worth it. It's obviously part of the problem and that part ought to be a no-brainer!! TALK TO HER.

I'd compare the ingredients in the Iams and Natural Balance and START a list of suspected food allergens. You don't have to do an elmination diet (altho YOU can -- just home cook one. If you do a search on here you'll find a lot of stuff) -- but one YOU do with fresh food is a lot more satisfactory. Home cooking is not hard -- and if you are willing to haunt veggie stands to get cheap produce it can be pretty easy. And if you save money at the vet you can be money ahead.

It's great if you can go to a dermatologist, but you probably just are not at that place in your life when you can. You gotta keep a roof over your heads AND decent food in the dog's stomach.

If you want to email me I can give you a few other things I use. But given the dog's age the two things that are truly critical are neutering (which will reduce stress and may help ultimately) and the thyroid test. At your dog's age, it COULD be thyroid and nothing will work well if the thyroid is out of whack.

DO NOT bother to have the regular vet do the thyroid test. It's just plain a waste of money and vet visit. You need to either send it to Dr. Jean Dodds (Hemapet) or to Michigan State (she set up their lab and they use her protocols exclusively -- it's a good place).

It doesn't sound to me like your vet is working with you monetarily -- yeah, a more expensive antihistamine might be nice but they ALL have side effects. Right now, do what you CAN do that keeps it all balanced as well as possible.

And holler -- trust me, I've been there done it with allergies and sometimes you just do what you CAN do and try for 'more' next week.

But even just RINSING the dog off every day or wiping the dog down with damp paper towel can help ENORMOUSLY to reduce allergens that can be absorbed in the body.

Dan Wilcox

Posted : 1/23/2007 9:22:22 AM

Update on Buckley:
First of all thank you all for your posts! I am very sorry I did not respond or even read them sooner. I thought I would get an e-mail when people responded, and I did for the first few, but then they stopped so I didn't know anyone else responded. Lots of good info for sure!

Ok, when I posted the topic, about a week ago, Buckley was having a bit of an outbreak. Since then, I had been cleaning them with hydrogen peroxide, and giving him Benadryl. They have been getting progressivly better, and are 97% totaly cleared up right now (or as of yesterday when I saw him). Yesterday was his last anti-biotic as well, so we'll see what happens. I know the dose on Benadryl for him is 50mg 2-3 times daily. I will up it to 2 times a day if he needs it, but right now, he seems to be responding to just the one dose a day. I am going to order some Omega-3 oil capsules today, along with some Biotin. But I'm not really sure on the dose, the only thing I found on a Omega -3 fish oil capsules for dogs was like 3,000mg-4,000mg or even a little more. Which would be 3 or 4 capsules. Does that sound right?

So since he had been to the vet, three weeks ago, he has had one flair up. They were different then any other time, they were more inflamed and bloody (pics from original post), however they were treatred fairly effectivly with hydrogen peroxide and cleared up in 3-4 days. Is there any way that the anti-biotics made them 'different' while he was on them? Another thing I noticed was the location, all of these eruptions or scabs were either on, or right next to a nipple. Does anyone know of a reason why they would be at the nipples? Also, this is soon to be scheudaled but I wanted to get his skin under control first, will neutering help in any way with this?

So my plan right now is to keep him on the Natural Balance food for another month or so... however long $75 of canned meat will last because he still has lots of the dry. He really seems to like it so I'll go with it for now. He has had nothing else but that for a month & half now. I'm going to give him the Omega-3 supplement along with Benadryl as long as it seems to be working. I can always up the dose or try Tavist later. But I would expect him to have another outbreak in a week or so, so I am waiting to see how long this works. Are there any tell tail signs of a Thyroid problem? And how do I get it tested by the recommended vets mentioned in an above post? And how much does that cost? I'm willing to do anything I can,but money is the main issue. My parents can't help at all, and in fact, Buckley will probably be living with me in 3-6 months because I'm betting on forclosure & divorce for my parents situation... so the dog doesn't seem to take priority because they know I'll take care of him like a child. But anyway, any help, answers, recomendations are greatly appreciated by myself and Buckley!

jessies_mom

Posted : 1/23/2007 2:31:35 PM

    I'm glad to hear he's doing better. Last summer I fell behind in flea treatment and Jessie started scratching her sides; she would get scabs by her nipples from scratching. I *think* it's because the nipples are higher than the surrounding skin and the nails catch on them.

     Some signs of a thyroid problem are; thinning coat on the trunk of the body, preferring warm places, weight gain, tiring easily or lack of energy, skin problems, including susceptibility to skin infections, and poor appetite. A dog may have some or all of these symptoms. For the thyroid test, all you need to do is ask your vet to send the blood to Michigan State University for the test; most vets don't mind doing that; it cost me $30 to have it done but fees vary a lot with different vets.

   The neutering won't effect this except for the fact that surgery puts the body under more stress, lowering the immune system, which may make him more susceptible to the outbreaks, so you may want to wait until he's better before having him neutered. Also, if his vaccines are due soon, please don't have him vaccinated until this problem is resolved because that is likely to make this worse. I have an allergy dog and my vet won't give her vaccinations the same week she gets her allergy shot or if her allergies are flaring up because it places the immune system under too much stress.

jenhuedepohl

Posted : 1/24/2007 1:57:08 PM

For allergies to environmental stuff the best things for our dalmation were more frequent baths with a tea tree oil & oatmeal shampoo and Allercaine spray on the itchy spots to help them heal. Both are quite inexpensive. We also tried to keep him out of grass as much as possible. During times it wasn't possible, like when we aare camping, we try to wipe his feet & legs down with a wet towel several times a day to help get some of the allergens off of his skin.

Dan Wilcox

Posted : 1/27/2007 4:08:16 PM

Welllllll, almost like clockwork, he had another 'breakout' today. Today I gave him his bath on schedual like the vet said, and then inspected him afterwards. He has two or three new red eruptions soon to have scabs. I can always tell when he is about to because there are little dried blood spots around his belly button and nipples. They honestly look like flea dirt, just at the hair folicales. But it is NOT flea dirt. I have consistently looked everyday and I know it is not from flease. Especially not in the pattern, same exact spots. Also he has one or two spots the just wont go away. Even after three weeks of antibiotics, which is now over. I'm going to have to take him back and have more skin scrapings and see if the bacterial infection is gone. My own personal feeling is that if it is an allergy, then its an inhalent allergy. I doubt its thyroid because he really doesnt have any of the symptoms.

But does anyone know of anything else it could be? Are there any other things that could be mis-diagnosed as allergies? Please help....

Misskiwi67

Posted : 1/27/2007 4:15:39 PM

The little black dots on his skin are called comedones... they're the doggie version of pimples. If he has little red spots that are leaking blood/serum, then he has an infection in his follicles and he should be on antibiotics for a minimum of 4-6 weeks, possibly even longer. The three weeks of antibiotics is for a regular infection, an infection in his follicles is much more serious. Sounds like you need to see your vet again. What antibiotic were you on? If your dog isn't responding to the antibiotics at all, then I would your vet for fungal culture, bacterial culture and/or biopsy.

Skin infections usually have underlying allergies, but you won't be able to figure out the allergies until the infections are controlled.

Dan Wilcox

Posted : 1/27/2007 4:28:03 PM

Ok, so I will schedual a vet apointment... agian... and will they do another skin scraping or what? How will they determine if his skin still has a bacterial skin infection?

But so lets say that's the case, and he's on the antibiotics for another 6 weeks. When the infection is cured eventually, should those eruptions stop? Should the comedones around his nipples go away? Or are those things caused by an underlying allergy. Like, how will I know when the bacterial infection is gone, and we're just dealing with an alergic reaction?

Misskiwi67

Posted : 1/27/2007 6:40:11 PM

When the skin doesn't have the little red "eruptions" anymore. The comedones around the nipples may be due to accumulation of dirt in that area. Cushings and demodex also cause comedones, but I'm not sure that they'd localize around the nipples like that? I've only seen comedones once, so I'm really not sure about those specifically.

Your vet will decide what he wants to do to decide if the skin is still infected, and with what. Its really hard for me to tell because I can't see the dog... sorry.