allergies are back?

Tavist is now typically said to be the 'best' antihistamine for dogs.

 
   It works the best for Jessie; I tried it after chlorpheniramine and Benedryl didn't help. Here's a link for the dosages of different antihistamines you can try;  [linkhttp://www.utskinvet.org/pdf/antihists.pdf]http://www.utskinvet.org/pdf/antihists.pdf[/link] .  Sally has an allergy dog and her dog does well on Hydroxyzine; my vet has prescribed Doxipin for Jessie and it seems fairly effective too. Fatty acid supplements like DermCaps increase the effectiveness of antihistamines so when you're able to add supplements those would help.
 
  About heartworm medication; Jessie was switched to Interceptor when she was on the elimination diet because it doesn't have any flavorings your dog can react to; Heartgard has a beef flavoring.
 
  The dermatologist Jessie sees is also an Associate Professor of Dermatology at Purdue University and she thinks food allergies are more common than what is generally believed. That being said, if it's been a month since you gave her the liver, yogurt, and milk, it's very unlikely she's still itching from those foods if she's allergic to them.
 
  I didn't know your dog was already on medication for yeast when I suggested the Vagisil; did the vet swab the area and look at the skin cells under a microscope before prescribing the meds; Jessie has had both bacterial and yeast infections in that area. I don't know of any home remedies to try if it's a bacterial infection. If you happen to have some Bactoderm ointment from a previous prescription it would help though.
 
 

It takes 6-9 months to see a change with the shots - we've seen a little change but are waiting for more. Good luck. Please do the testing and, like it's been said before, it's cheaper in the long run ! ! !

  I'm glad Bogie's making some progress; we saw rapid progress in the first few months after Jessie sarted the shots, then more gradual improvement after that. Are you trying an antihistamine and fatty acid supplement; the shots help but many dogs still need some supportive care. 

OK,  I *think* that Heartguard makes a hypo-allerginic version.  When I was last at my vets, she wanted me to switch to it b/c I currently give Interceptor.  I wouldn't b/c she is a shepard mix.  So, I think there is a version of Heartguard that can be purchased that is not beef based.
 
I just have to disagree with Callie saying that just a bite of food can make a difference.  I have seen my girls reaction 12 hours after ingesting cat poop while on this elimination diet.  I have seen her redness and itching diminsh a great deal.  But whenever she snags a "bite" of cat poo or for some insane reason, the dirt in my back yard, she does SHOW it 12 hours later. 
 
If you can't control the atmosphere, but you can the food, then why not lessen what load you can.  Maybe that will mean that my girl doesn't get to eat turkey, or rice, or something.  But, there are lots of other foods out there.
 
Most people who have went the way of this elimination diet understand that they can not give "one" thing from here on out or there dog will likely develop a problem with that one food.  You still have to provide variety and supplements, etc. 
 
If you discovered you threw up everytime you ate seafood, wouldn't you just stop eating seafood?  Gee, I would.  Only with our dogs, they eat what we give them, and for these types of reactions, they don't understand that that food is going to make them itchy a few hours later.
 
There are other proteins out there. Right??  and Yes, keeping variety is very important.

If your dog is not a herder and tolerates HeartGuard then why not just give ivermectin liquid?  You'd bypass all the 'flavorings' and it's majorly cheap -- you just need to dose it carefully (literally you use mere drops of it - one bottle would do fourteen 75 pound labs every month for the 5 years of shelf life of the product and you'll still throw some away.  I figured that out once.  A bottle of it is under $50.  If you are counting ingredients closely that would be the easy thing to do if you don't want to use Interceptor for some reason (and I use Interceptor even tho I don't have a herder any more just because it works well for us).   You can just put the drops of ivermectin on a small piece of something - you just want to make sure the dog ingests it *all*. 
 
See, I have to admit - I make a difference between a food *intolerance* and a food ALLERGY.  And most of what we're talking about here is 'intolerance' not allergies. 
 
I'm allergic to fresh basil -- one bite of a fresh basil leaf and I break out in bright red itchies from the tips of my fingers to the tips of my toes and it takes a mega dose of Benedryl to bring me back to earth.  It's something that has 'developed' in my middle-age and I figured out it was a problem before it actually shut down my breathing or anything. 
 
But yes -- and as a matter of fact, shrimp CAN be a 'sensitivity' for me -- it's apparently what the shrimp are washed in more than the shrimp themselves because sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't make me itch.  To a degree I 'avoid' -- I avoid basil totally because I get such an enormous reaction to so little of it.
 
But I don't typically avoid shrimp because the reaction is pretty rare and it's minor. 
 
I can't eat spinach because of the oxalic acid in it -- that's an intolerance (it makes arthritis worse) -- but it's not an 'allergy'. 
 
If a food provokes an instant reaction that causes redness, major itching, swelling or hives then yes, that IS a true 'allergy'.  But most of what we're talking about here is an intolerance and if the dog is in a lessened state of allergy sensitivity it's often not even noticed at all. 
 
ANY food can become a problem.  The real danger in all this is that people tend to try to jump around to different foods, RATHER than doing a true elmination diet to find real culprits.  If you are doing a real elmination diet (and I may not have made this clear enough before) then yes -- you absolutely must stick to it because that's the only way you get results that are valid.
 
The other thing that can influence all of this is how the food itself is processed.  If you ever look on the bag of ... well, let's use the Hill's"Z" diet -- it's full of stuff that is typically cautioned as "allergens".  I don't have the list off the top of my head but the reason they offer it as an 'allergy food' is because it is actually processed differently.  The molecules of the food are broken down SO far that chemically the food is 'absorbed' completely differently than most food.  That's how they get away with calling it an 'allergy food' when it's got all those known allergens in it. 
 
But the point I was trying to make (and obviously made it badly) was typically one bite of a particular thing isn't going to send a dog into "allergies" particularly if it was eaten a month ago.  Now if it's a true allergen and the body reacts immediately and strongly to it then yes -- it's an allergen and you'd better stay away from it.
 
And yes, if you are trying to lessen the allergy load on the body by avoiding certain things that may be helpful too -- but I get discouraged because I hear people ALL the time who avoid ALL beef, ALL lamb, and anything but white meat chicken thinking they are avoiding 'allergens' -- and the dog isn't getting nearly the nutrition that it should.
 
Allergies are *strongly* linked to the immune system and one of the best things you can do for an allergy dog is boost their immune system. 
 
One of the best things about an elmination diet is typically a 'true' elmiantion diet is homecooked.  And as you ease the dog into more foods, I've seen people just begin to homecook as a result.  And that, in and of itself, can really help because the dog gets better nutrition with fresh nutrition. 
 
However -- putting a hypoallergenic cover on your bed, duvet and pillows may do more for the dog than you would believe.  I just try to be the voice of reason a bit because so often people simply *assume* allergies HAVE to be diet.  And usually they are led that way by a vet who sees diet as much easier to 'attack' than anything else. 
 
Will somebuddy PLEASE have pesto for me?  Dang I miss it -- I love it and I can't even THINK about eating it.  *sniff*

The example I gave about a vet sending home several different medications at once is a true one. The dermatologist that teaches at the vet school I attend will send home 3-5 different antihistamines with instructions to try each one for two weeks, with a one week break between prescriptions. Then he will write a script for whichever antihistamine the owner feels worked best for their dog.

I also disagree that foods can't cause an immediate reaction. Romeo has been on a true diet trial for several weeks now, and was completely itch free for the first time in months. Then the cats knocked over the bag of buiscuits I use for my other dog when I crate her, and romeo at 2 of them before I was able to pull him away. He was itchy (chewing his feet again) the next morning, and for several days thereafter as well.

The z/d diet you are talking about is lyophilized soy. Soy is a common food allergen in dogs, but there have been several studies that show improvement in known soy allergic dogs when eating the z/d food.

I also disagree that foods can't cause an immediate reaction. Romeo has been on a true diet trial for several weeks now, and was completely itch free for the first time in months. Then the cats knocked over the bag of buiscuits I use for my other dog when I crate her, and romeo at 2 of them before I was able to pull him away. He was itchy (chewing his feet again) the next morning, and for several days thereafter as well.

Answer from Callie:

  Now if it's a true allergen and the body reacts immediately and strongly to it then yes -- it's an allergen and you'd better stay away from it.

Sounds like your agreeing to me Misskiwi67.
Miss, is this dermatologist giving free samples of all of these antihistamines at the same time, or making in clients pay for them?  If he is giving them and giving the dog a chance to try them out before writing prescriptions,, that is one thing, but somehow I doubt that he is.  But if I took my dog to him and had to pay for this medicine, I would NOT!  Who has the money to purchase 5 different drugs all at the same time that supposedly do the same thing?  Now we may end up buying all of those five drugs, trying one for a while and finding it doesn't work and then go on to another...but to buy them all at the time is kind of stupid to me.
 Hey Callie,,,,I wish I could give you my tolerance to basil,,,,, I made a dish last year and made pesto to go with it, but I HATED the pesto.  lol!

 
Callie,  I'm not terribly fond of basil, and only like pesto on sandwiches, but, gee, for you I'll look for some next week.  []
 
Honestly, girl, I believe what you say about the basil, but you must be one-in-a-million,  Whoever breaks out in hives from a leaf of a herb???? How very odd that seems.
 
About the "allergy" definition;  I dunno, it's not worth arguing over, but I'm going to continue the conversation anyway.  And, I'm not trying to argue, btw.
 
My take on Callie's explanation (yes, it did make sense) was that if a dog had a severe reaction, then it's an allergy.  If a dog's system is "bothered" in some way, then it's an intolerance.
 
That makes sense, but I still wouldn't know in what catagory to place my dog.  We discovered she's allergic to brown rice.  ARRRRGGGHHHHH.  So, she takes in brown rice, and not immediately - not within minutes- but in a few hours starts itching and her skin does become red.  She does have a reaction to it.   The more she eats, the worse her symptoms get.
 
So, I think Callie would call that an "intolerance". 
 
But, now lets also say that her poops following this are partly black, and take days to clear back up to all brown.  Which indicates upper GI intestinal bleeding.  Pretty bad gut inflammation.  In this case senerio, would you still call it "intolerance".
 
I look at it a bit differently.  If I give my dogs a top brand, higher protein diet and they have runny poops for one month straight - I call that "intolerance".  My boy eats brussel sprouts (not again, if I can help it), and his gas could fuel a motor bike, then I call that "intolerance". 
 
If the reaction is bad enough to migrate to the skin - in an attempt, perhaps, by her body to eliminate the problem??- and my girl is now red, or itching on her skin, then I think it's a bad enough reaction to her body to qualify as an allergen.
 
When you break out in hives from that dreaded Basil leaf - oh no [&o]- then you are having an allergic reaction.  Right?
 
So, when my girl's skin turns red and itches (like in hives), then why wouldn't it also be considered an allergy just because of the time difference.  I'm not convinced that just because it shows up in your skin with 60 seconds makes it an allergen, but if it shows up a few hours later, then it's not?
 
I would call the first case scenerio a severe allegen,  but still consider the second case an allergen since it still has the same basic outcome for the body.  
 
[]
 
Lynn

Well,
 
according to my vet, she says a food intolerance will show as itching, gas, diarrhea, vomiting, seizures, colitis, etc.
 
She says that dogs can have adverse rections to foods, and these may be simple allergies, or something more complex, which is called a food intolerance.
 
So, to her, an allergy is less severe than an intolerance.  I was thinking of it the other way around.  But, she's an expert in her field, so I guess my thinking was backwards.....??
 
In my mind, I will have to start comparing it to a seasonal allergy that some people have with pollen.  We call that "allergy".  That is not as severe as these other reactions.  So, maybe I can remember that "allergy" is not as severe by thinking of this.
 
Allergy == milder reaction
 
Food intolerance == more severe reaction.
 
According to this, Callie, you would be "basil leaf intolerant".  Not basil leaf allergic.     
 
hoo boy, I think I've officially wasted enough time on this topic today.
 
But, it would be nice if we could all agree on what the meaning of each is == simply because we've all had this discussion before.  Same one.  Is it allergy, is it sensitivity, is it intolerance........... 

ORIGINAL: dyan

Miss, is this dermatologist giving free samples of all of these antihistamines at the same time, or making in clients pay for them?  If he is giving them and giving the dog a chance to try them out before writing prescriptions,, that is one thing, but somehow I doubt that he is.  But if I took my dog to him and had to pay for this medicine, I would NOT! 

The dermatologist I work with is at a veterinary teaching hospital. People will drive hundreds of miles to see him, so it doesn't really work well for them to try one antihistamine for 2 weeks, then drop by and pick up something else. He will send them home with several prescriptions of several drugs, and when they come back for their 3 month recheck, they get to tell the doc which prescription they think worked best. So basically, this isn't your typical vet, so things aren't done in typical ways. I'm pretty sure he doesn't do this for everyone either... its one of many options people have to try to control their dogs symptoms.

The dermatologist I work with is at a veterinary teaching hospital

 
 
   The dermatologist Jessie sees also works at a vet teaching hospital and she has given me free canned IVD for an elimination diet and free syringes with a medication to use in case of an emergency ( severe allergic reaction). Also, I'm not charged for some of the consultations.

Well,

according to my vet, she says a food intolerance will show as itching, gas, diarrhea, vomiting, seizures, colitis, etc.

She says that dogs can have adverse rections to foods, and these may be simple allergies, or something more complex, which is called a food intolerance.

So, to her, an allergy is less severe than an intolerance. I was thinking of it the other way around. But, she's an expert in her field, so I guess my thinking was backwards

 
 
  Your vet is correct in the definitions of a food allergy and an intolerance. They are two completely different responses to food.

He will send them home with several prescriptions of several drugs, and when they come back for their 3 month recheck,

 
Well yes,,,and if he sends them home with several prescriptions they wouldn't have to get them filled at the same time,,,if one didn't work - then they fill another. THAT makes sense and saves a bit of money because if it works they don't get another filled AND they don't have to go back and pay another office visit.   

Jessie's mom,
 
OK, so now I understand "intolerance" (and I still think my girl's reaction falls into this catagory),
 
but I'm not understanding an example of allergy.  So, if an allergy is not as severe a reaction, what would be an example??

 

if an allergy is not as severe a reaction, what would be an example

 
I'm not sure that is right. An person that has an allergic reaction to a bee sting.. could die.  My mother-in- law became allergic to the drugs she was on for a bladder infection,,,she swelled up soo much all of a sudden that she almost died.   We have a friend who's son almost died from eating peanuts...many people are allergic to them and other legumes.  Many people die from an allergic reaction.
I can't believe that an allergic reaction is less severe than an intolerance.

Jessie's mom,

OK, so now I understand "intolerance" (and I still think my girl's reaction falls into this catagory),

but I'm not understanding an example of allergy. So, if an allergy is not as severe a reaction, what would be an example??

 
This explains the difference between  food allergy and intolerance; []  [linkhttp://www.mayoclinic.com/health/food-allergy/AN01109]http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/food-allergy/AN01109[/link];   

"In a true food allergy, your immune system mistakenly identifies a specific food or a component of a food as a harmful substance. This causes certain cells to make antibodies to fight the culprit food or food component (the allergen). The next time you eat even the smallest amount of that food the antibodies sense it and signal your immune system to release histamine and other chemicals into your bloodstream.
Signs and symptoms of a food allergy usually develop within an hour after eating the offending food and may include:

• Hives, itching or eczema
  
• Swelling of the lips, face, tongue and throat, or other parts of the body
  
• Wheezing, nasal congestion or trouble breathing
  
• Abdominal pain, diarrhea, nausea or vomiting
  
• Dizziness, lightheadedness or fainting

Other reactions to food don't involve your immune system or, for this reason, the release of histamine. These reactions aren't true food allergies. Instead, they may be food intolerances. Because food intolerances may cause many of the same signs and symptoms as food allergies do — such as nausea, vomiting, cramping and diarrhea — people often confuse the two."

  That's what I meant when I said they are completely different responses; there is no histamine involved when your dog has a food intolerance; she wouldn't itch and have red skin; she would vomit or have diarrhea or gas instead. Your dog is allergic to brown rice. [] If she had gas or diarrhea from eating the rice, that could be food intolerance or allergy, but food intolerances do not cause red skin and itching. Is she still losing weight? You said she's on thyroid meds; sometimes the amount needs to be adjusted up or down; has that been checked lately?