Advice on the itchies...

  I was asking chaza []. I'm sorry that he got into some food and was itchy; hope you don't have to start from the beginning again. I was walking Jessie at a park today and she scarfed up something at a picnic area and from the crunch it sounded like bones, so I figured it was chicken bones. She was shaking her head more than normal this afternoon.

Haha... yeah, I noticed that after I'd already typed and posted my message. I figured it didn't hurt to reply, and I don't mind looking silly now and then.

I'm also curious what the common ingredient was?

I went to an Animal Dermatologist, and he advized me to do an elimination diet.
 
And guess what? It worked!
 
The next step was a serum test.

I went to an Animal Dermatologist, and he advized me to do an elimination diet.

And guess what? It worked!

The next step was a serum test

 
  It's great when it's a food allergy and you don't need to go through the testing; Jessie has food and environmental allergies. Sometimes dogs have both types of allergies and eliminating the offending food gives enough relief but that wasn't the case with her. Your dog is a cutie.[]

Jessies mom,
 
It was brown rice, of all things, brown rice!!  I'm still fuming over that one - it's just sooooo common, and I never once thought it might be rice.  [sm=banghead002.gif]    Not one time did rice as an offender ever enter my mind.    I guess ??? I will test later for white rice since it has the bran removed, maybe she won't be allergic to it ????
 
The thing I hate is I have to wait 2 weeks between testing for individual foods.  I figure we will be at this a year before it's over. Problem is that she has lost a ton of weight.  Way too much.  And keeps loosing.  I had trouble with her during the 3 weeks we were to go without supplements.  Apparently she is in the 5% of dogs that didn't "store up" nutrients to get her thru it. She lost alot of weight then.  And, she is still losing weight, which is a problem.  Hungry all the time, of course.  She is on supplements now, but still losing.
 
I guess I will increase her food amount, but at 29 lbs. now, it seems that 10 ounces of food at each meal (2 times a day) is alot of food for one feeding.  I look at the bowl, and think that's alot for one little girl.  But, I weighed her yesterday, and she had lost another pound (after staying steady for a couple of weeks), so I guess I will increase the amount.    She seemed to lose the last pound after I tested her for the brown rice, so her body might have used up extra energy in dealing with it.  The weight loss is the most frustrating thing for me at this time.  I am currently giving her 1/2 tsp of oil at each meal.  I guess I need to increase that as well.  It's just so hard to know how much oil to give.  Any sugggestions?
 
Another thing that I noticed is that she tried to eat alot of dirt (not just grass, but dirt), which I think was a way to get more minerals into her body.  Thing that I discovered, oddly enough, was that she was allergic to the dirt (pesticide free).  Yep, she had problems with the very dirt she was so badly craving.  So, that in conjunction with the horrible time we had for those 3 weeks w/o supplements makes me think her body isn't able to utilize the nutrients she has been getting.
 
I think most kibbles use carbonate forms of minerals - which is not as absorbable as citrate forms.  So, maybe she wasn't able to store up to begin with - and maybe her body is just "allergic" to that form of mineral????  Her supplements now are citrate form.
 
Lynn

A dog that is losing weight even after the caloric intake has been increased makes me wonder what other issues are going on. Have you had her to the vet lately for bloodwork and a physical? 

  Oh Lynn; You must be very worried; why don't you put her on a prescription diet like Jessie's on right now; it's IVD Potato and Rabbit;
 [linkhttp://www.royalcanin.us/vetdiet/caninepotatorabbit.html]http://www.royalcanin.us/vetdiet/caninepotatorabbit.html[/link]. They also make Potato and Duck, Potato and Venison, and Potato and Whitefish. Jessie's immune system is always under stress because she has serious environmental allergies so I didn't want her to do without vitamins and minerals, so I'm using a prescription diet to see if she has any new food allergies. If your vet doesn't carry IVD, Eukanuba makes a Kangeroo and Oatmeal Rx food. Natural Balance used to be a good food for an elimination diet and was similar to the IVD diets, but now they've added flaxseed, which is in most dogfoods. I supplement the Potato and Rabbit with EVO canned rabbit with the vet's okay to give her more protein.
   I  wouldn't have suspected rice either; it's a low gluten grain so it's not as likely to cause food allergies as a higher gluten grain like corn or wheat. I'm not sure what your vet told you, but you should only have to test for the ingredients that were in her old food, not including the vitamins and minerals, so I'm wondering why it should take a year?
  Has your vet done any testing to see if she has absorption issues? I'm not sure what types of tests they do but you may want to consider it. 
 
 

Jessie's mom,   That's a very good suggestion about absorption issues.  Thank you.
 
I appreciate the suggestion on the food.  I checked their site, and it has salmon oil in it.  I haven't challanged for fish oils, yet.  I've come so far - we have been on this for months, that at least we are in the testing stage.
 
I will be emailing the vet next week.  In the meantime, I have decided to add a "third meal" by giving about 4 ounces right before I leave for work and again at bedtime.  I hadn't wanted to do that b/c they are in the living room when I am at work, and I didn't want any accidents.  But, I have to increase the intake.
 
I would love to switch to potatoes - I would imagine it has more calories that the quinoa grain I am currently giving.  But, I have to test for it first.  She's been on so many foods and had so many things in the past.  The vet first suggested potatoes, and I said, "great, she loves potatoes!"  Well, nope, can't have it then for the testing time.
 
But, maybe if I test her on it next, and she is alright, then I could switch it.  I think a person could probably lose weight on this other grain.  I hadn't thought of "switching to potato", so thanks for helping me to think of that.  I will ask the vet.  Seems if she reacts fine to it that it would be alright.
 
She had bloodwork done in October.  She does take thyroid meds, but I think it's the diet.  Rabbit is NOT fatty.  I bought some cans of chicken to feed her brother, and that stuff is unbeliably fatty. I hardly see any fat in the rabbit. 
 

oooh, that definately makes sense. I had to nearly double Romeos food intake when I started his diet trial too. I never realized just how many treats I was feeding him!! I also agree that the diet trial foods don't seem to be a good choice for long-term. I can't wait until I'm at the testing stage where I can finally find out what Romeo is allergic to...

I think the diet trial is one of the hardest things I've ever done. Even my hardest vet school courses don't take the 24/7 constant supervision and dedication that this diet trial requires.

Misski,
 
I didn't realize you were doing a diet trial as well.  The hardest thing for me to watch out for is the cat poo hidden in the leaves.  She has it before I even know she was going after it.  And, darn, that is one thing I'm not going into her mouth after with my bare hands.  So, she snatches it, she gets to keep it.  I hate watching her chew it.  Yuck, apparently it's like gum and is all chewy.  Eeck.
 
How long are you having to  wait between new food challanges?  My vet said two looooong weeks in order to get all offending food out of her system.  I would love to shorten that by a week, but she said two.  It just takes soooo long with so many foods I need to challenge with.

Two weeks to test a food, and two weeks between as well I believe. I'll have to check my class notes. I'm working with a dermatologist, but I also took a class, so I only talk to my professor/dermatologist when I need help with something specific.

I have a wonderful question to ask when I get back... if romeo spent all christmas vacation hoovering up treats and food from the other dogs, do I have to start all over again?? I think I do, and I really don't want to hear it...

Misski,
 
I like your new avatar.  What kind of lizard is it?  You seem to have a range of animals around.  []
 
I do think it will set you back.  My vet's handout said that it would be back to square one and would have to restart the diet for anotehr 2-3 months if  she ate unallowed foods.   However,  my girl has eaten cat poop and such, and I did not start over.  I will wait at least a week before testing again.  Thing is, I can't completely stop the  cheating - so I'm just going to do my best to work around it.
 
I guess if it were me, I wouldn't do any challanges for another three weeks, and let everything out of his system.  You might want to add in a good probiotic in the meantime to help heal the gut.  My vet recommended Culturelle - can be ordered online from the manufacturer and it is the more expensive one.  They have a cheaper one, but it's not hypo-allerginic. 

Thats Harley, my baby crested gecko. I have 7 of them, and they are amazing little creatures. VERY easy to care for compared to the other geckos I've kept, which is part of their charm.

Lucky for me, Romeos only clinical signs are itchy feet, and his feet have stopped itching the past couple days, so I don't think I need to worry about a probiotic just yet. They absolutely love yogurt, and obviously thats not on their list of edible foods right now... I really think its something in the buiscuits I've been giving him. Chicken maybe? He's been snarfing up my parents Nutro (they're shephard doesn't clean his bowl) as well, so I guess I'll have to see what does and doesn't match between the two...

Lucky for me, Romeos only clinical signs are itchy feet, and his feet have stopped itching the past couple days, so I don't think I need to worry about a probiotic just yet. They absolutely love yogurt, and obviously thats not on their list of edible foods right now... I really think its something in the buiscuits I've been giving him. Chicken maybe? He's been snarfing up my parents Nutro (they're shephard doesn't clean his bowl) as well, so I guess I'll have to see what does and doesn't match between the two...

 
    I also like your new avatar [] . I supplement Jessie with acidophilus pearls; they're encapsulated and are supposed to be more effective since the capsule protects the contents from stomach acid and more acidophilus survives to reach the intestines. This explains it;  [linkhttp://www.bodybuilding.com/store/et/pearls.html]http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/et/pearls.html[/link]   although I don't use that brand. They don't effect an elimination diet since you're giving the probiotic but not the other components of the yogurt ( diary). It's awful that Romeo has gotten a hold of so many things he shouldn't have lately; I really hope you don't have to start over again.

ORIGINAL: RobDar

maybe my vet does a different kind of test of something....cause the test our vet does includes common food allergens like corn  etc...etc...
if you dog show allergic to corn in this test then it is very likely you should not feed it in their food...
I never really asked if there is different testing "groups" and differnet testing "depths" in the allergy tests. maybe all the allergy tests do not include all the same things...

I'm new here so I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds, but from my understanding (years of experience with equine nutrition), the food allergery tests (serum or otherwise) are not that accurate when it comes to dogs --and they are also quite expensive for the owners. On the new dog that I just acquired (please see my post in this section, "New Dog, New Owner - Help!") it was around $150 for a complete test (food and otherwise) that I had performed by my equine vet at a reduced rate.

Food elimination seems to be the only accurate way to diagnose a true food allergy, but as it is very time consuming and difficult for some owners. I see no problem in getting an allergy test to start to narrow things down, but at the same time, I would not put someone down for making educated and researched decisions with a food elimination diet.