Dog Community

Atopic V. Food...I Need Help...

Twin

Posted : 10/25/2006 7:24:24 PM

My pup has been itchy since he was 8 weeks old, he is now 1 years old. He did have fleas when I got him so I figured that was the culprit. When he was 12 weeks old I started him on Frontline Plus, and that got rid of all the fleas, and he has been on it ever since. But then he started loosing a little bit of hair in spots...front of his shoulders, by his testicles, and he was constantly itching, scratching, biting, and licking. The vet treated him for Sarcoptic Mange, which helped but once the treatment was over he went back to itching, etc. Now he was really red on his stomach, had dark dried spots where he was constantly biting, and by his testicles he was loosing hair. The vet put him on cortisone and an antibiotic. He told me it was time to do an elimination diet because it HAD to be a food allergy. He said there was no way it could be environmental or atopic, because he would have to be exposed to the allergen at least through one cycle/season.

He had been eating Beneful...Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy (chicken/rice)...CA Natural Chicken/Rice Puppy. So, I switched him to Natural Balance Duck/Potato. All of the above formulas contained chicken and rice...the later two also had sunflower oil. So, I figured he was either allergic to chicken, rice, or sunflower oil. He was on the Duck/Potato for 2 months and with the help of the food and the antibiotics his skin cleared up and he stopped itching! [

] So, I decided to try Canidae to see if it was the food causing the problem, because Canidae had the same ingredients as the Nutro and CA Natural. Well, he wasn't as itchy, but his coat became dull, dandruffy and smelled. He also got eye boogers bad, which he had NEVER had before even when he was really bad. I then figured it was probably just the Canidae that didn't work for him, but I don't know?

So, now he is on TWO Wilderness Elk. It does not have any ingredients that he has previously been exposed to...it uses Millet and Oats, which he has never had. His coat is now back to being nice and shiny, no more eye boogers, and he looks great. But now all of a sudden he is starting to take on an odor and his skin has dandruff...BUT he is still really shiny and soft...so I am confused. He has not had chicken, rice, or sunflower oil now for over 1 month. So, I can't see how it would still be food related?

He scratches his armpits, his shoulders, his face, and his ears. He also rubs his face on the couch. In addition, he bites near his testicles, at the base of his tail, and his stomach. Pretty much all the same place he had previously itched. But he is eating completely different food, so I am at a loss here?

Does this appear to be atopic or food allergies?
Do you think it was an food allergy in the beginning since he cleared up with the NB?

[&o] Any and ALL advice will be greatly appreciated...I am at a loss here. [&o]

jessies_mom

Posted : 10/25/2006 7:57:33 PM

I'm so sorry your pup is itchy Twin. First; Are you certain that the mites were completely eliminated during treatment; it seems strange that your dog would improve while being treated for sarcops but itch again after treatment stopped. Did the vet tell you that you had to kill all the mites in your home, and it's not easy, or they would reinfect your dog? Callie (user name calliecritturs) knows what must be done to eliminate them; you should send her an e-mail.
The parts of a dog's body that itches are the same for food allergies and atopy. If your dog is a GSD which I assume he is then I can tell you they are one of the worst breeds for allergies; Jessie is part GSD and that's what my veterinary dermatologist has said. I don't want to disagree with your vet but dogs can be atopic younger than a year old. If he is atopic, giving him a fish oil supplement and an antihistamine should help; antihistamines alone frequently aren't very effective but fish oil increases thier effectiveness by about 50%. Here's a link with types of antihistamines you can give to dogs with dosages by weight; [linkhttp://www.utskinvet.org/pdf/antihists.pdf]http://www.utskinvet.org/pdf/antihists.pdf[/link] . Try bathing him with a shampoo like NusalT, which you may have to order online but is excellent, or a shampoo from your vet, followed by a conditioner for itchy skin. I use Epi-Soothe shampoo and ResiCORT leave on lotion; both are made by Virbac and are available at my vet. Bathe him twice the first week and once a week after that; if it's atopy that plus the antihistamines and fish oil should help. If it's food allergies then nothing, not even steroids, will help. It would probably be a good idea to try the NB duck and potato again either before or while you're doing the other things. But also I would reconsider the possibility that you may be dealing with sarcops again.

Twin

Posted : 10/25/2006 8:15:31 PM

Thank you so much for such a wonderful reply! [

]

He was on Cortisone when he was doing the Ivermectin treatment for the sarcops...and then also again while he was on the antibiotics...so I think it was just covering up the problem. Also, he improved when he was on a higher dosage of Cortisone during the Sarcop treatment...but when I lowered it he was itchy again. I forgot..it has been almost a year ago since I treated for the Sarcops. But, yeah he was itchy again when I lowered the dose...so it's like it wasn't really doing anything after the Cortisone was lowered. The time he actually improved was when he was on the antibiodics and the NB.

I, too, am starting to lean towards atopic allergies. But what if its food and atopic? [

]

If it's food allergies then nothing, not even steroids, will help.

So, how would I know if its food if he did improve when I switched him to NB...since was on Cortisone for the first of the two months? I don't know if its the Cortisone then or the food?! [

] But, if the Cortisone did help him when he was treated for Sarcops when it was at the higher dosage...then it CAN'T be food allergies, right? I am so confused, I am sorry if I am confusing you! [&o]

Anyway, I have ordered the Timberwolf Organics Wild Salmon Oil...so I guess I will be supplementing that with Vitamin E. Do you suggest I do this everyday, every other day?

jessies_mom

Posted : 10/25/2006 10:28:58 PM

You're very welcome [

]; It's possible for a dog to have food and environmental allergies; Jessie is allergic to several types of weed, grass, and tree pollens and also has indoor allergies. She is also allergic to chicken. We learned this by taking her to a veterinary dermatologist who did blood and skin testing to determine if Jessie had environmental allergies and what they were. She also had us put Jessie on an elimination diet; that's how we learned about Jessie's food allergy. You don't have to go to a derm vet; your regular vet can take some blood and send it to a lab for testing. It's not too expensive and you will know within a few weeks if your dog is atopic and what he's allergic to. The blood test can also test for food allergies; most dermatologists don't think the blood test for food allergies is reliable but my regular vet has told me about some new tests that are supposed to be accurate. The elimination diet helped but wasn't enough to stop Jessie's foot and ear infections so she was put on allergen immunotherapy; she gets shots of a serum which has extracts of some of the things she's allergic to and it has really helped, and the same can be done for your dog.
You should give the fish oil everyday; I use a brand that already has vitamin E so I don't know how much to add but I'm sure if you posted on the nutrition forum some members would know. I hope he isn't allergic to the TO; I know he's been doing well on it and really likes it; good luck.

M.W.Lewis

Posted : 10/26/2006 11:55:19 AM

If he is now off cortisone and he does respond favorably to the NB Duck/potato again, then it would seem to be food related to something in the TWO.
It would be the easiest first step.

I think you should get his cortisol levels tested (it's an adrenal hormone).
If he responds that favorably to cortisone, it may very well be fulfilling a deficiency within his own body. It's not just a medication but a hormone that our bodies actually make. Dogs who are cortisol deficient often have immune issues such as allergies and infections. Not only that, but it effects the thyroid hormone conversion in the body. It is possible it was helping him utilize his own thyroid hormone (it is needed to convert T4 into T3 in the body). It's a fine balance as too much cortisone/cortisol are immune suppressive but then again so is too little.
So if his immune system improved while on it you may wish to look into it further to see if he was starting with a cortisol deficit and that it was not just a temporary fix once he recieved the cortisone.

You may not have to do anything though is he responds right away to the NB duck and potato. That would be the easiest I think before looking into other possible factors.You could then add the fish oil and supplements later and one at a time, once all symptoms hopefully clear up. Keep in mind some dogs are allergic to fish, even the gelatin (from cows) outer capsules that some supplements come in.