Seizures...

Have you had any blood work done on the dog to make sure there's no medical reason for the seizures?  If not, a full CBC would be the first step.

8 minutes is a LONG time to be seizing.  Brains cells can die off during a seizure so you want to watch the time closely.  Our Cocker recently had a 7 minute one.  When we brought him to the vet afterwards the vet said anything over 5 minutes of active seizing warrants a trip to the ER.

Dogs that have lived their whole lives in harmony can turn on a seizing dog in an instant.  And the seizing dog has no way to protect themselves.  We leave Tazer (our Cocker) out with his bestest friend Winnie (Corgi mix) but I know there's a slight chance she could go after him.  Doubtful, but it could happen/  His seizures have only been about once a year so, after weighing the pros and cons we decided to risk it.  I pray nothing every happens to make me regret it.

Diet can play a HUGE roll in seizure activity.  Many people find their dogs seizures greatly decrease (if not stop all together) after removing grains from the dogs diet.

A MUST READ for anyone with a seizure dog is this website:

   http://internet.cybermesa.com/~dalcrazy/Emma.html

This chronicles the life of Emma, a Dalmatian with very bad, VERY frequent seizures.  It shows all the things the owners tried to stop the seizures - what helped and what didn't  - and the final step that almost eliminated the seizures completely.

This website is a great reference tool for seizure-dog owners:

   http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/

Good luck!

ORIGINAL: lauric

Have you had any blood work done on the dog to make sure there's no medical reason for the seizures?  If not, a full CBC would be the first step.

8 minutes is a LONG time to be seizing.  Brains cells can die off during a seizure so you want to watch the time closely.  Our Cocker recently had a 7 minute one.  When we brought him to the vet afterwards the vet said anything over 5 minutes of active seizing warrants a trip to the ER.

Dogs that have lived their whole lives in harmony can turn on a seizing dog in an instant.  And the seizing dog has no way to protect themselves.  We leave Tazer (our Cocker) out with his bestest friend Winnie (Corgi mix) but I know there's a slight chance she could go after him.  Doubtful, but it could happen/  His seizures have only been about once a year so, after weighing the pros and cons we decided to risk it.  I pray nothing every happens to make me regret it.

Diet can play a HUGE roll in seizure activity.  Many people find their dogs seizures greatly decrease (if not stop all together) after removing grains from the dogs diet.

A MUST READ for anyone with a seizure dog is this website:

    [linkhttp://internet.cybermesa.com/~dalcrazy/Emma.html]http://internet.cybermesa.com/~dalcrazy/Emma.html[/link]

This chronicles the life of Emma, a Dalmatian with very bad, VERY frequent seizures.  It shows all the things the owners tried to stop the seizures - what helped and what didn't  - and the final step that almost eliminated the seizures completely.

This website is a great reference tool for seizure-dog owners:

    [linkhttp://www.canine-epilepsy.com/]http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/[/link]

Good luck!

 
I very much agree!  It looks like I misread he was having 8 minute siezures...those are a long time!
 
Eliminating grains in the food is another really good suggestion.  Heck anything that helps, no matter how small it seems could be the key.
 
And those are very good links you posted lauric.  Emma sounds a LOT like our boy...only his ordeal lasted about 3 months..and he eventually had a cluster he could not recover from, and his body started to shut down.
 
Those were the worst 3 mo. of my life...multiple seizures almost every day..and trying diff. meds, and diff. levels...whew..its a battle for the dog and the owner.
 
I think that if your dog has not been to the vet for seizures in two years, but has had them since then, and recently...you should maybe take him in and have some bloodwork done.  Could be an issue with the liver, or something else that is triggering the seizures...it may not be epilepsy..but something that the seizures are a side effect of .
 
 

Will someone else describe their dog's seizures?  What happens and how long?  I'd say that the he can't move for maybe 1-2 minutes but the rest of the time he's shaking, spastic but trying to move.  Mostly crawl into my lap more.  He definitely seems like he doesn't see/hear/feel me during the whole thing cause it's like he's trying to find me but can't, even though I'm right there the whole time.
 
I will take him to the vet again and discuss this with them again.

Emma's seizures vary from seizure to seizure. She has had several different kinds. She has petit mal seizures, where she's sitting/standing, head bobbing, and air snapping or licking. They last less than a minute, and she generally has some mild post ictal behavior. She may just trip and then start acting post ictal.

Sometimes, she clusters with petit mals. Sometimes, grand mals are mixed in.

Usually,her grand mals are stiffening, followed by a short time of paddling. She generally has a long pre and post ictal stage.

Her last cluster was only two seizures. One horrible, 20 minute, full body stiffness, disoriented siezure, followed by one very breif, mild petit mal. She had NO pre or post ictal activity. It was very scary, and I'm still trying (with my vet) to figure out what to do about it. I'm probably going to get some rectal valium to use if she goes over 5 minutes, again.

Quick Question...

Does Kota remember people after he comes out of the seizure (like people he sees maybe once a week)?, does he remember commands as well as he did before seizing?
Does it look like he remembers where he is?

He seems normal after them.  He's looking around, responds to his name, will come to me if I ask, etc....  When he has these, he doesn't move his mouth at all, never any snapping.  All of his have been the same and about the same length.  He gets shaky, falls down, body stiffens, his skin/muscles around his face are all drawn taught, he doesn't recognize me, his legs will stiffen for a time, but then he tries to crawl around but can't stand per se... he would move around if I let him but I don't.  When he begins to pant and/or lick his lips is when I know it's ending....
 
What do you guys do when they have them?  I sit with him on the floor and pet him, talk to him.  He is usually right up against me, against my legs or half on me.  If I don't do that he tries to move around and I don't want him to hurt himself...

I usually just move Emma to somewhere that she'll be safe and leave her alone. She air snaps HARD. I've gotten in her way a couple of times.

hmm... I bet if I left him alone, he'd try to move around.... do you think I should try that next time?  This is kind of why I'm thinking they're not grand mal seizures.... I wish I'd had enough sense to grab the camera and film a little of it.  To show the vet.... 

My 16 year old cocker spaniel has had seizures for 12 years.  I have found that most of them occur when he is drifting off to sleep.   The change in brain wave pattern in sleep must be somehow similar.  I haven't observed that excitement or weather or food are triggers for him.  

He is also hypothyroid, and as long as he gets his thyroid medication on schedule his seizures are infrequent, about 1 every 4 to 6 weeks; they last anywhere up to 5 minutes for the most part.  He does have a very mild illness compared to other dogs I have known or known about.  Because of the infrequency and the shortness of the seizure, we don't medicate for the epilepsy. 

He has a prodrome:  he paces, whines, and salivates excessively.  And has a post ictal phase:  doesn't seem to know us or where he is.  We are careful not to disturb or frighten him in the post ictal phase.  He has both grand mal and petit mal seizures.  He will come to me for comfort, or try to belly crawl to my feet if the seizure has begun.  Poor baby!   In the petit mal seizures, he will freeze and stay unmoving; or stare into space and be unresponsive to voice or gentle touch.  He occasionally becomes incontinent with the grand mal seizures.

My younger dog will lie down next to Max and press himself close to him and provide comfort and protection for him during the seizure.   He will lick him and lie his head over Max's neck.  In the post ictal phase Bear will sit and watch Max.   Bear is 4 years old, we were careful to observe and supervise initially and would have separated the dogs if that had been necessary; it hasn't been.

Tashakota,  I hope that I can be of assistance to you. I personally have owned two seizure dogs. The last being my obedience champion which I lost on Christmas day 1998. His sezures were so bad that he bacame a experiment for the Univ. of S. Fl.  They started him on Potassium Bromide that is compounded at a special Pharm. It was the greatest thing I have ever done for one of my wonderful animals. His seizures stopped almost imm. It is not expensive really and it would be worth looking into if the seizures continue. The experiment is over to my knowledge so you should be able to have a vet order a compounding pharm. order it. I hope this will assist you in some way. I know all to well how hard it is to go thru these with our beloved pets and if you can stop just one it is improvement.
Good luck. here is a picture of my two that I own now.

My Jasper (6 year old mini dachshund, 12 lbs) has had seizures since he was about 6 months old. We've tried a variety of treatments, and he is now on phenobarbital. Nothing totally eliminated them, but we now have them down to about once every 6 weeks. They are grand mal.

As far as the other dogs harrassing him, we have 2 other dogs - a 3 year old female standard doxie (21 lbs) and a 5 year old doxie mix (17 lbs). Jasper is definitely alpha in our "herd", so maybe that makes a diff, but our other dogs never bother him - in fact, Cache, our doxie mix, is like a nurse. He's come to get me when Jasper has started a siezure and I didn't notice - he'll do his "come here, mommy!" dance and makes me follow him to where Jasper is. Either we're just lucky, or we have really bonded dogs

Well I'm going to call the vet today for another apt.  He had another one last night.  This one didn't seem as bad as last Tues and it was at 4 in the morning.  We got a little bit on camera so I'll take that in to show the vet.  He seems totally fine after his though.  He even jumped up on the bed on his own, to join us for the rest of the night.  The other dogs just didn't care.  They stayed on their pillows and didn't bother him, so I'm not worried about them.

I'm not sure what the vet can do at this point.  I reviewed his history and he's had 3 in the last 2 years.  They began when he was 4 years old.  This morning's seizure began at 3:47 am and got bad at 3:50, he started licking lips at 3:55 and was walking on his own at 4 am.  So a total of about 13 minutes, with severe at about 5 minutes.

Thanks everyone for all your information and sharing. 

An after vet update.  The vet felt concerned enough to put him on Pheno.  So now he gets a very teeny pill twice a day for life....  fun.  The vet said that if he doesn't act weird in the first day or two, it means that he really needed the medication... has anyone else ever heard of this?  I"m going to do some research on what Pheno does and how it interacts with the brain and such, but if anyone else knows, I'd appreciate the info.

Thanks again everyone!

I don't know about acting weird the first couple of days but I had a poodle on Pheno many years ago and she did very well.  My vet has a couple of patients on it and they are also doing fine.  I will keep Kota in my thoughts and prayers.
 
 

Reading all of your posts has put my mind a bit more at ease. My little baby girl, my beagle Ellie, just had an episode of four grand mal seizures in 24 hours. The fourth was at the vet, so they got to witness it first hand.

All her blood was normal, urine test was normal, no sign of poisoning. They're recommending seeing a neurologist for possible imflamation of brain (they say it's rare)

She got home and even though they had given her valium at the vet, she paced and paced around the whole house. That worried me. They sent me home with valium and said to bring her on on Monday. I gave her one, and now she's finally relaxed. I'm very concerned, but after reading these posts, I would guess she has epilepsy. One thing I realized, she has the episodes where she "snaps at an invisible fly" ever since we got her. I thought it was her eye lash getting into her eye. I'm thinking now it's a petit mal seizure, and an indication of epilepsy.

I hope that this cluster of seizures is an isolated thing and wedon't have to medicate her, but time will tell.

Thanks, just needed to vent

Just an edited note: She's had an elavated white blood cell count everytime she's been to the vet. She had it when she had her teeth cleaned, and she had it today with the seizures. They gave me antibiotics just in case, but there's no difinitve answer as to why, other than from her being under stress from the seizures. Anybody have any thoughts?