Sassy's Allergy Test Results

Oh man Cathy,,,,,
You know, my first instict was to say WHY to the two more weeks of Atopica, but you know,,,,it just doesn't matter,,,whats another two weeks????   I would go with the flow,,,,,and then move on from there. I suppose if you did not, the first two weeks of time and money would be a total waste...and you never know,,,it might help! Good luck!

I know Dyan, I feel the same way and sort of sorry to say, I didn't get off work in time to rush to vets to pick up the Atopica.  I had one day left, so I'll pick it up on Monday, but she wanted me to pick it up today.  Another 2 weeks is probably about $200, so I'm just not thrilled about that (having spent $400+ only 2 weeks ago).  Sassy also vomited up her entire dinner 2 nights this week.  That's a first for her, and I felt pretty crummy for her.  It's a very common side effect of Atopica, but it still upset me. 

Many of the allergens she's affected by (of the fungal nature) are increased by humidity and a dehumdifier is supposed to help.  Have you ever heard of anyone trying that in addition to allergen shots or other remedies?

  I'm actually glad the blood test showed she has allergies because if she didn't, well, what else could be causing all her problems?  Are chenopods some type of fungus? Jessie was tested for molds, including penicillium, but not the fungus that you mentioned that grows on their body. It seems that bathing should help with that. Yellow dock is also one of Jessie's worst allergies; she scored 1795 and 150 or higher is considered significant on her test. The dehumidifier makes sense since it would decrease the humidity that molds need to grow; it also helps with dust mites because they need an indoor humidity of about 45% to live. I thought Atopica suppressed the immune system, which may be why you were reluctant to use it. If the Atopica helps, does that mean your dermatologist would prefer that to the allergy shots?  If so I can see why since there isn't a guarantee that allergy shots will help, but has she discussed the safety and possible side effects of using Atopica long term? As you know, it can take several weeks for immunotherapy to help; I hope the Atopica gives Sassy some relief before she starts allergy shots. I'm so glad that you finally got an answer as to why Sassy has been so miserable; now there's light at the end of the very long, dark tunnel you've been traveling through. Kuddos to you for not giving up even though at times it has been very expensive and frustrating; it has finally paid off.  

Hi All, I have been reading the allergy posts and am learning a lot here. My 3 yr old Lab Parker has started itching a lot and seem to have become allergic to something. Now this has just started about a month ago when we switched his food from the small bite Innova EVO to the Large bite Innova EVO. Would this change to the same food but different size make a difference? We started to switch his food back to another food he was on ( Nutro) before this all started but we mixed it in 50/50 his his present lg bite evo. Hope that makes sense? Can I ask you guys whats involved in allergy testing and the costs involved?  I know I am in the early stages and we will be seeing his Vet on Monday...but a heads up would help me make better decisions...Thanks so much for any help....David in Az.

HI, One more thing....when I had an Irish Setter 7 yrs ago he had allergies but not real bad ...and the Vet would just give him a cortisone injection every 6 months and this would stop his itching for the entire time. Im pretty sure he called it a cortisone injection or maybe just an allergy shot...I remember it was a big shot and the stuff was milky white. Worked great!! I was going to ask my Vet this Mon. if my Lab could have a shot like this until I can figure out whats cause him to start itching...any thoughts?  Thanks for any help/...David in Az.

Hi David,
I'm assuming that the ingredients in both the large and small EVO are the same, right?  If so, it shouldn't be causing any allergy issues.   It doesn't mean that the food isn't a problem, but the small vs. large shouldn't be a factor.  You might try one of the Natural Balance Allergen Formulas though and see if that helps any.

The allergy testing we used for Sassy was the blood test, not the skin test.  There were several reasons for this, one being the need for discontinuing the use of antihistamines several weeks prior to the skin testing.  Sassy would be a mess after a few weeks without an antihistamine.  My vet said they're both about the same regarding price and reliability, but I've read that the skin testing is more accurate, so if you can go that route, I'd consider it.  The testing for Sassy cost about $275.  That doesn't include any of the serum, if we decide to go with it.  I don't believe it's extremely expensive though.

I hope that you can find out that your boy's allergic to the food since that seems to be one of the easier things to make a change on.  Statistically though, food allergies are not as common as environmental allergies.

Cathy, I hadn't heard about the humidity issue but it makes sense to me also. I wonder if you can run a dehumidifier in your home everyday?  We used to run one in our other home,,in our basement because it was so damp down there.
The thing about Atopica,,,,it IS great if it helps...but would you have to used it forever???  I mean, sure what about long term effects..but can we afford this sort of treatment for a long time.  Seesh!
david,,, you said your dog is three years old and JUST STARTED scratching?? And you think its because you changed from small bite to large bite??? THAT doesn't seem right.  Are the ingredients the same???      I have a feeling that is is coincidental if they are!  On the other hand,,if you think they are...why fool around? Why not just change back?  The thing about a cortisone injection is that like antibiotics that clear of infections...or prednisone that helps these things...most of us realized that even though they helped,,,the problems come back. With our Ollie,,,the time that he was NOT having issues was getting shorter and shorter between medicines. THAT is when we decided to STOP giving him any of the medicines altogether...and try to work on getting rid of the problem. Allergy shots helped that.  Allergies are because of weakened immune systems...perhaps working on strengthend the immune system is the better answer. We give Ollie supplements, changed to premium food and stopped giving him vaccinations,,,which we believe were weakening his immune system.  We had him blood tested for allergies and found him to be allergic to grass and dust...two things we could do nothing about.   He was put on allergen shots and he is pretty much fine now.   Costs involved are better answered by Cathy and Janice,,,they did this more recent...along with the fact that Ollie is my sons dog. I know he did say that he didn't really pay anymore to take Ollie to a skin specialist then a regular vet.....that he was sorry he wasted so much money trying one thing after another and going from one vet to another...because that is where he wasted more money.

...that he was sorry he wasted so much money trying one thing after another and going from one vet to another...because that is where he wasted more money.

I definitely second that.  My mantra lately is, if you think it's food, try one of the allergen formulas.  If that doesn't help, do an elimination diet.  You'll have an answer one way or the other and be done with the guessing game regarding food.  If it's not food and it's pretty darn obvious it's allergies, get the testing done.  I spent more on antibiotics in one month than the cost of the testing.  Testing isn't the cure, but it gives you some answers and when things are as frustrating as they've been with us, answers are priceless.

Sassy's test results were done based on the Northern Calif. area and were broken down by trees, weeds, grasses, fungal allergens and environmental allergens (which dust mites fell under).   She rated high on fescue & bermuda (both common here and I think what our front and back lawn are).   For trees, high on Palm, Cottonwood, Mulberry and Acacia.  Weeds - Russian Thistle, Dock/Sheep Sorrel and Ragweed.  She was also high on every fungal allergen they tested for.  When I went to the company's website, greerlabs.com, they give suggestions for some things and for the fungal allergens, they recommend a dehumidifier.  That made complete sense to me, so I'm going to look into getting one.

Atopica is a lifetime thing, but you can taper off to 2-3 times a week after a few months.  The vet said the cost ends up being about the same as the allergy serum, but I don't see how that can be.  That stuff is expensive!!  Just like everything else, the price will likely drop once the drug company makes up for some of the R&D.

I looked at Sassy's chin today and it looks worse to me and has spread.  She's been on ketaconazale and clindamycin for 2 weeks now, along with the Atopica, so I'd hoped she'd be better by now.  This girl doesn't ever clear up on the short side of duration though, so I shouldn't be surprised [:@]

The vet said the cost ends up being about the same as the allergy serum, but I don't see how that can be. 
 
Fortunately for us, and unfortunately for you,,,I think California probably takes a whole lot more money to live there...I don't think that Mikes charges on serum was anything like the cost of Atopica......again,,,he said he wished he would have gone to the skin specialist first, before going to other vets and spending tons of money on medications.  If I though he was home,,,I'd call to see if he remembered,,,, or if he would answer email, I would for sure email him. He isn't good an either.

 I get the serum from Purdue University Small Animal Hospital and it's $165, but they have a lab technician who makes it; it may cost more if it has to be ordered from somewhere else. I'm sorry that Sassy's chin is worse, poor girl.

Can I ask you guys whats involved in allergy testing and the costs involved? I know I am in the early stages and we will be seeing his Vet on Monday...but a heads up would help me make better decisions...Thanks so much for any help....David in Az.

I agree with cakana that the itching wouldn't be from the change from large bites to small bites if the food has the same ingredients. What Nutro formula did you feed; did it have the same protein source as the EVO? Since EVO is grain free the itching would have to be caused by the meat sources if it's a food allergy.
This is a bad time of year for allergies, so if your dog has any it's no surprise he would be itching. Jessie recently had to go from a shot every two weeks to once a week because she was having flare ups ( skin infection on her stomach, ear infection in both ears, foot infection);  they've stopped now that she is getting the shots more frequently. She will go back to a shot every two weeks in October.
The dermatologist that Jessie goes to does both the blood and skin testing for every dog. She believes the skin test is more accurate but does the blood test first and waits for the results before doing the skin test. A small amount of each allergen is injected just under the dog's skin for the skin test ( called intradermal skin test). If an allergen has a very high score on the blood test ( 2000 or higher) she won't include it in the skin test to avoid a systemic allergic reaction; that's why she does the blood test first. In Jessie's case there were some allergens that were not included in the skin test for that reason.
There were additional expenses besides the blood and skin test; the blood test was $170 and the skin test was $225, but the dermatologist also had a full panel thyroid done as well as some other blood tests. There were cytologies done where Jessie's skin was red, which was several places,  to see if bacteria or yeast were present; they found both. The charge for anesthesia for the skin test was $36, and the serum was $165.  For three visits, both allergy tests, all the lab work and the serum the total amount was $750. When Jessie goes back for rechecks every six months there is no charge. Obviously they were thorough, but if all you have is a blood test for allergies you won't pay nearly as much.
I wouldn't let Jessie have steroids; while they are okay for short term use you should avoid giving them to your dog long term; my vet says they cause kidney and liver damage, cancer, a swollen belly, and many other problems.
Before you consider immunotherapy you may be able to get by using antihistamines; if you've been reading the threads you know that both cakana and I didn't have the allergy testing done until we tried other options. Here's a link for antihistamines and dosage for dogs by weight;    [linkhttp://www.utskinvet.org/pdf/antihists.pdf]http://www.utskinvet.org/pdf/antihists.pdf[/link]

Hi  All,

Haven't been on this site in a while but get all your forums in my e-mail.  Have been busy trying to find a job so haven't had a lot of time to join in the discussions but I couldn't let this day go to rest without telling you about my success in fighting my rescued Giant Schnauzer Walter's allergies in hopes that it might help you on your journey to less itchy and happier dogs. 

I also went to my regular vet because Walter was itching like crazy and his skin was breaking out in little pustules all over his body (dermatitis).  He was absolutely misserable.  Of course the vet gave me prednisone (for the itching) and antibiotics (for the dermatitis) and it cleared up...for about a month and as soon as I weaned him off of the pred. and he was done with his treatment of antibiotics, the itching and dermatitis started all over again.  We finally did a blood test and put him on the allergy shot serum and we did that for a little over one year because that is how long the vet said it would take to see if the shots were going to do any good for Walter.  He did a little better but I was still having to get antibiotics every once in awhile for the dermatitis and would also have to use the pred. about every 6 months because he would be so crazy with the itching so to me, that wasn't good enough to continue the allergy shots.  When it came time to renew his allergy shot serum for the third time, I told the vet that I didn't think it was doing any good.  She then sent me to an allergist.

The allergist then did her special blood test which she told me was much better and more thorough then the one my vet did and when the results came back, I did know exactly what his trigger points were (some being molds, yeast, dust mites, grass & tree pollens, and some food allergies also) and to what extreme he was allergic to all these things (highly).  She put him on Atopica for several weeks along with pred. (if he really needed relief from itching) and also some spray cortisone for topical use which really helped a lot but only until it was dry and then he'd start to itch again.  I was so frustrated and felt soooo bad for poor Walter I was about in tears the next time I went to the allergist.  The Atopica made him sick and lathargic and I really didn't feel good about pumping all these chemicals into my sweet boy.   I knew I had to do something else to save this poor boy.  He had two options, stay on all the drugs and have a mediocre and short life or get him on supplements and get an air purifier for my 105 year old house and live a happy and healthy long life.  I opted for the supplements and air purifier and you would not believe how well he has responded.  He has not had one breakout of dermatitis since I brought the air purifier into the house and his itching is extremely less with the supplements he gets.  There is still a little itching depending on the time of year and what pollens are out but he also seems to do alot better when he gets enough exercise (maybe he itches because he's bored when I don't get him out as much as I should).

The key to the air purifier is you have to get one that is effective on odors, dander, smoke, mold, mildew, bacteria, viruses, and dust.  I have one that does all that and throughout my whole 2,800 SF house, from one single unit.  I'll tell you that treating Walter's allergies in this manner is not cheap but neither was the allergists option and my way will give him  a longer and better quality life. If you are interested in learning more about the air purifier and reading Walter's story, go to   www.shaklee.net/livingahealthierlife . 

You will not be sorry if you go the holistic route for treating your dog.  I'm so glad that I found this air purifier and the supplements for Walters sake but it has also helped me.  I didn't even know that the air quality in my house was a problem for me until I got the Airsource.  Once it got my houses air cleaned up, I started sleeping better and stopped having that nasty runny nose and eyes in the mornings when I get up, and it doesn't produce that awful ozone smell.  It is so incredibly amazing!!!  I will never live in  another house without my air purifier.

So Cakana, all that to say, I would definitely skip the cost of allergy tests done at the vet and go straight to an allergist and get at least the blood test done.  I too couldn't do the skin testing because of Walter having to be off everything for 2 weeks before the test.  He would have been a bloody mess from all the itching if I would have done that.  At least with the blood test, you'll know Sassys trigger points.  I totally agree with Dyan that strengthening the immune system is the way to get your dog on the right track to a healthier and itch free life.  Let me know if you're interested in what I give Walt.

David, make sure and check that the large kibble Evo you're giving Parker has the same ingredients as the small kibble Evo.  I seem to remember seeing two different bags in the pet store where I get my Innova Evo for Walter and one was the totally raw diet and one had rice or some kind of filler in it.  I may be completely off on that but check to make sure.

When I can figure out how to make my picture files small enough to post, I'll post one of Walter and his sisters.

One more thot about the ATopica -- it CAN stop working, just like any other steroid.  Just out of curiosity how many mg is she on??  That's the Drug Billy is on to depress his immune system (so do be aware it DOES that) -- he's back up to 125 mg a day now (altho they've split it and he's on 75 mg on the morning and 50 at night so the drug doesn't have highs and lows when it's absorbed into the body). 
 
There IS a human equivalent cyclosporine (Atopica = cyclosporin) but I've heard from many sources NOT to use it on the dogs because it not only doesn't work as well it just plain doesn't react well with their systems. 
 
You would also have to factor in blood tests periodically to see what the liver and kidney are doing, so factor that into the costs involved.

Thanks Callie.  I was thinking cyclosporine was the exact same thing, but cheaper, so was going to ask the vet if we could use that instead.  Sassy's been on 200mg, but she should be on 250 mg due to her size (75 lbs).  These last 2 weeks were gratis from the vet who haappened to have these that were returned.  We're supplementing with the ketaconazale, because supposedly that enhances the effects. 

I understand your point about the Atopica possibly decreasing in effectiveness at some point and I understand the post above about using holistic methods.  I plan to do both, but frankly with Sassy testing high on both outdoor allergens and indoor allergens (dust mites), I'm not going to kid myself that I could begin to do enough with filters or supplements to truly keep this under control.  It will be a combined effort but I'll eliminate what I can.  I'm still on the fence about the Atopica.  I really don't want to use it but maybe I'd feel differently if I thought it was making a difference.  So far, I can't tell.  She seems to be tolerating it well.  She vomitted up dinner 2 times, but I've adjusted her dosing and feeding schedule and it seems to be fine now.  

Maybe it's not a relavent anology, but my ex-DH and my current-DH both went thru allergy shots and had great success.  My ex had some of the worst allergies I've ever seen.  He went thru a few years of allergen shots and then they told him to stop them and see what happened.  He was (and is) fine and it's been over 10 years.  Other than a swollen area from the injection that lasted a day at most, neither of them had any side effects.  That's what I'd really like for Sassy [].