Demodectic Mange on 4 mo. puppy...

    • Gold Top Dog

    Demodectic Mange on 4 mo. puppy...

    Hi :) My boyfriend and I just adopted a beautiful pitbull puppy from the local animal shelter. Her name is Luna and last night was her first night home. We took her to the vet this morning and the vet signed her vet evaluation as "unhealthy" and recommended that i take her back to the shelter and exchange her for a healthier animal. But i can't do that! I've already gotten attached. She's a wonderful dog. We started her initial treatment ($230.00) but we'll have to take her back every week for at least 6 weeks for a $50-$100 treatments.
     
    Does anyone know of any vets in the Los Angeles area that offers low cost treatments? Our local humane society doesn't offer any vet services for animals that are not strays. (I always thought they did for some reason). The treatments are expensive. We going to go ahead and have her treated, but I would like to know if there's another (less expensive way) to get her treated. Haha, we're an artist and a musician. Money's tight. But we've already agreed that no matter what, she will get treated.
     
    Are these prices average in your area? I called another vet, and they said their treatments range from $100-150 [:-] 
     
    Oh! one more thing... I wanted to know how contagious this condition is. I have two chihuahuas at home, and I dont' want them to catch the parasites. One vet said it was. The other said it wasn't. I'm so confused! please help
    • Gold Top Dog
    Beau has had demodectic mange for most of his life. His first signs came at about a year old. Luckily we found out (from Callie) what is was. Now when a spot pops up, it is taken care of right away. The over the counter meds might do the trick, but for spots and not the whole body, I take care of it myself.
     
    Beau currently has two break outs. One on his back and one on his face. The spots are shaved to the skin, then cleaned very well and dried. They start to dry up and disappear within a week or so.
     
    How bad is her demodex now? Any pictures?
     
    Please get a hold of Callie here on the board. She has a lot of good information about this type of mange. And as far as I know, it is not contagious. Do a quick search you can get some more info.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Hi Welcome to the forum! Thank you for adopting this lil one too!
     
    I'm not at home but from my experience we've used goodwinol cream with our frenchie who had demodex. The main issue is the immune system has been compromised. Demodex mites are on every dog, just those who suffer from break outs are affected because of the reduced immune system. It is nothing to worry about for you.
     I'm curious about the "treatments" your vet is giving. I can't imagine what would cost that much to trwat this. Callie has some great info too if she gets on before I get home and back on the computer.
     
    Congrats on your new companion!
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    I've sent Callie and e-mail for you :)
    • Gold Top Dog
    Start here:http://www.critturs.com/mange.html - it's Callie's article.

    Good luck to you!!
    • Gold Top Dog
    thanks so much for your help! i can't believe that this condition can be treated at home. i've been reading on some websites, and they say that almost always, this condition has to be treated by a vet. i'm going to read Callie's article right now!
     
    my first vet bill has the treatments itemized as follows...
     
    skin scraping  -   $27
    Ivermectin Injection /ml   -   $38.21
    Injection Subcutanious (SC)   -   $28.56
    Bath/Comb/Dry   -   32.39
    Medicated Dip   -   $9.60 (its listed twice... i have to call them and check about that)
    Antirobe Liquid   -   $27.20
    BNP OPTH OINT   -   $23. 60
    Conofite Lotion 30 ml   -   $32.95
     
    is this odd??? i'd like to think vets are honest people (even though i was totally swindled one day. I paid nearly $500 for tests on my chihuahua just because he wasn't eatting... (i was sort of guilted into it. dumb, i know)
     
    And thank you for emailing Callie for me! i'll post up pics when i pick her up from the vet
    • Gold Top Dog
    wow, callie's website is very helpful. luna is only 4 months old and she was at the shelter for over a month. she has the stress, malnutrition, and probably a lowered immune system just from being in there!
     
    even if she just doesn't 'grow out of it', the website gives me hope that we can live with it and try to control it. :)
    • Gold Top Dog
    Wow, run don't walk to another vet.  Lots of padding I can see there.  Multiple ointments for what should be controllable with the injection, and you had to pay for both the injection, and apparently the act of injecting?  Wow, wish I got $28.56 every time I gave a subq shot.  That's baby stuff and not even necessary for this condition.

    Demodex can be a real pain, and it CAN be somewhat dangerous in a pup this young.  What you want to be very careful of at this point, is opportunistic infections.  If you are still struggling with this a few months from now, take your money to a GOOD holistic vet for advice on building that immune system.  Keep her nice and clean, treat small breakouts right away, and be cautious about exposing her to anything that could challenge her immune system for the next several months.  One thing that probably was a big catalyst, were the immunizations required to get her out of "jail".  Resist any pressure to do more shots until you've gotten the advice of a holistic vet.

    Also try to find a conventional vet (or work it out with the holistic vet), who will allow you to treat her with ivomec at home.  It is not necessary to inject it - I had a rescue last summer who took half a ml of ivomec every other day, then about every four days or so, and probably eventually will be able to get by with a week of treatment every few months.  I just drew it up ($30 for 50 mls) and squirted it on her food - no hassle.  She had a very severe case - I can't imagine taking her in to the vet every few days at $100 a pop! [sm=eek.gif]

    Please note, this is NOT NOT NOT veterinary advice - don't attempt this without the guidance of a vet - you CAN kill your dog.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Haha, your vet is kind of like the one I went to today for Beau.
     
    It was...
     
    $39 for initial exam
    $18 for Corneal Stain
    $10 for F-Lamp (Black light) exam
    $18 for Schirmer Eye Tearing Test
    $10 for Collar - 25" (to prevent him from scratching)
    $12.50 Neobacimyx (antibiotics)
     
    $108 later... I wonder if I should go back there...
     
    If I were you, I'd definitely look for another vet. Some do simple tests for free. I can't believe I paid $10 for them to look at his eye with a black light. I could have done it for free!
     
    On with the mange. For Beau's small break outs, the area is shaved right to the skin. That way the infection can't fester under the fur. Peroxide is poured in small amounts, then it is dried out. Once dry I put topical meds on it. So far every break out has healed. Luckily. His first one covered an 8" area on his back before I found it. (This was the first break out) I didn't know what to do and within 2 days it spread. Most of his back, by his shoulder blades, had to be shaved. Then I read about Callie's article. So far Beau is doing very well, and I'm sure your little one will do fine if it's taken care of. You just have to keep on top of it.
     
    Like mentioned in a previous post, I'm not a vet, I'm just sharing what has worked for me. What works for me, might not work for you.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Just a quick question here, and maybe a little OT - but shouldn't the shelter have noticed this before adopting the dog out? Since they didn't, shouldn't they be willing to pick up at least a little of the expense? Or maybe let the dog come and be treated by one of the vets that volunteer for the shelter?

    Joyce
    • Gold Top Dog
    My JRT, Emma, has chronic demodex. Her first breakout was at 5 months. She's treated the Callie way[:D] She is kept shaved down (which isn't necessary for a dog with a Pit Bull coat), and on immune boosting vitamins and herbs. When she breaks out, she gets a warm bath in SulfOxyDex, followed by a 10 minute rinse, and a tea tree oil rinse, every other day.

    She's not had more than 2-3 spots at a time since we started treating this way. Before, she was generalized (meaning, she had mange ALL OVER) and the vet wanted to dip her in poison. Ivermectin made her epilepsy 100x worse. It was pretty awful. The immune boosters WORK!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Hi -- I zero'd in on the word "demodex" like it was blinking neon.  Sheesh -- now you know why my husband calls me "The Queen of Mange".
     
    Barby -- email me if you will (not to the Yahoo one -- but just to:
    callie at critturs dot com
    (but don't put in the spaces and use punctuation instead of the words at and dot)
     
    I'll send you my article which is way more up to date than the website (sorry -- it's been a tough year computer wise). 
     
    It looks to me like this vet is trying to treat with both amitraz AND ivermectin -- and that's generally not a wonderful thing to do, altho he's not doing the ivermectin daily?? 
     
    I don't like to see EITHER the ivermectin daily given (ultimately is actually depresses the immune system worse in many cases - the dog's body gets used to it and then can't function without it), nor the amitraz (Mitaban) dips used.  Mitaban is a serious pesticide and it's helpfulness is limited.  it *only* kills the mites on the dog today -- and demodex is 100% totally 'common'.  You and I have them on our faces at this instant.  (sorry folks -- it's unappetizing but true) 
     
    You can do every bit as well by bathing frequently with Benzoyl Peroxide shampoo (available at any vet or you can buy it online without prescription) -- but then while the dog is wet and warm you end the bath with a rinse of tea tree oil and water (kinda pour it over and over and over them -- stand the pup in a dishpan and just let it all run into the pan and scoop it out and pour it back over him!!)
     
    BUT BUT BUT that's only one step -- the real "job" is to boost the immune system -- and you can do that with supplements, vitamins and actually there's a few herbals that do a great job of jump-starting the immune system to get it to work on its own.
     
    Pitties are infamous for demodex (and actually so are chi's!!!).  But your chi's aren't in danger unless, for some reason, one of them is seriously ill.  As I said, demodex mites are literally 100% common -- it's simply that the dog's body is allowing them to proliferate (run amok) on the body and multiply unchecked.  The immune system should be controlling that and it's not ... YET.  That's the big deal -- to get the immune system built up so that it functions more normally.
     
    This pup ought to be able to overcome this and function fine -- BUT, this is a demodex dog.  That means he has a genetically flawed immune system.  That's permanent.  Now that's not a death sentence at all -- quite the opposite.  BUT that does mean that there are going to be certain things you will always need to watch out for with this pup.
     
    1.  Vaccinations -- NO "combo shots" (and vets love them -- you'l have to find a vet willing to give the single "modified live" vaccines SEPARATELY -- not in one visit). 
     
    2.  "Triggers' -- One of the things that has caused this boy to break out was simply the shots and 'stress' he went thru being adopted.  That in fact a 4 month old pup has a 'stressful' life -- your feet are NOT where they were yesterday -- they GREW!!  Their bodies change so rapidly at that age, and they're teething in a big way and sexual maturation is right around the corner.  Was he neutered before you adopte him?  If so that is a VERY good thing.
     
    3.  Good food -- you'll hear tons about food on this website, but I'm going to emphasize one thing to you -- do NOT feed a food that is preserved with carcinogens -- that means no grocery store kibble, that means no Iams or Eukaneuba or Pro Plan kibbles -- you'll have to become a label nazi -- and really investigate food.  You don't want to give a dog with a genetically flawed immune system tiny doses of a carcinogen every day in his food.  It sets them up for cancer. 
     
    4.  Keep the immune system boosted even AFTER you get victory over the demodex.  You'll probably always need to give this dog vitamins and supplements.  Now at first you'll give him a LOT of them, if you choose to do this the way I'll show you.  But even in the 'ever after' phase -- you'll want to be really conscious that he gets excellent nutrition. 
     
    Email me and I'll send you the article.  Bottom line, 9 years ago my husband and I adopted this poor pathetic little English cocker who was literally so infected from demodectic mange that he didn't have one square inch of healthy flesh on him -- he was sore, raw, bloody and oozing all over him.  It took me years to get him truly 'healthy' -- but even on a dog that sick you can do it. 
     
    I don't sell anything -- you can get most of this stuff at places like Wal-Mart -- it doesn't have to break the bank but there will be some expense in herbals and vitamins/supplements and the Benzoyl Peroxide shampoo and the tea tree oil (another Wal-Mart item).  All I want it to give you information. 
     
    I'm glad this pittie has you!!  they are wonderful, loving dogs.  I'm glad to help you.  Most of what's on that vet's list isn't necessary.  The opthalmic ointment for the eyes is because of the dips.  They'll charge you for doing the dips -- they are dangerous to do so that's why they're always expensive.  Giving ivermectin subcutaneously is not really necessary -- they're 'packaging' this so they can control it.  In honesty, they probably won't like you taking off to do this on your own, but it's not at all dangerous.  You'll see results pretty fast. 
     
    I'm glad the vet was at least honest with you about the demodex.  But it's not dire.  Your chis are 'safe' -- demodex mites, incidentally, don't bite the dog -- they live in the hair follicles and skin pores and eat skin oil.  They pass form dog to dog yes... but only because they're normal IN dogs.  But a health dog won't have a problem at all.
     
    The kind of mange that IS contagious is sarcoptic mange -- whole different mite.  And that's a whole different thing -- but the article I send you will help you understand that too.
     
    Good luck.  Callie