my poor pomeranians matts!!

a badly matted dog is a different story, like i have said many times. so i wouldnt fear some other shop would do a bad job, b/c i would gladly shave a dog that truly needed it. to tell you the truth i have done many dogs with undercoat that looked like they needed to be shaved, started brushing just to see what i was working with, and found that undercoat matts brush out a lot easier than some other dogs. this is not true for all dogs, but i have seen a lot of dogs whose coats could have been saved, but the groomer was either too lazy to brush, or too concerned with doing what the owner wanted.
 
i would not shave dog with undercoat who had a healthy coat that did need shaving simply because the owners want it done. there is an answer to all the reasons people have for shaving. the dog is too hot-well he will be worse if shaved, b/c the coat is needed for warm and cold. the dog is shedding too much-well ever hear of brushing? to correct, i do not own my own business, however i have worked in the same area for awhile, a lot of customers have followed me (thats what i meant about business). i do not want a business based on customers who are vain and want their dogs to look different from the dog the actually got. i want to do good by the dogs and if i feel im not doing that, then i would rather not do it at all. there are so many good and knowledgable dog owners, that i just dont feel like i have to put up with people who are the opposite. i dont want or need their business

Price is a HUGE issue for people here.  I don't work in the salon at Petco right now, but I do help out in there sometimes.  The new girl asked how much to charge for scissoring a Border Collie all over.  She had told the owner around $55.  I told her for a scissor all over, nothing less than $70.  Its so much more work than shaving.  The owner didn't want to pay $55, so I doubt shed pay $70, but there are people like that every where.  We had a guy who brough in a Great Pyr for a shave down (skin problems) and he spent well over $100 and was totally fine with that.  He just wanted his dog to be comfortable and healthy.

We seem to be in agreement that we don't like shaving dogs down, however I am single and have to make my own living so I will shave these dogs before they go somewhere else, I don't like shaving them but I do like paying my bills.As for combing out these dogs instead, if the owner wants the coat saved and it is possible to do without hurrting the dog and if they are willing to pay the extra $$$$$$$ then I would much rather, but many of these people want the hair off. I don't think there is an easy answer to this dilemma, we have to go with our own conscience. If a groomer really does not believe in shaving down and can afford not to do these dogs then that is great, but I cannot. As I said before  these dogs represent a great deal of our business  in the summer months, we even cut down a Lab that belongs to aVet. I could not make a living in the summer if  I suddenly stopped doing these dogs.

ORIGINAL: nyiceprincess

Take this as a lesson learned that Poms with a long coat need DAILY brushing.Get him shaved so he doesnt suffer for your mistake.He will grow back pretty fast and you can start a daily brushing routine without him being traumatized from you trying to tear out mats for hours.

do u know how much time we spend brushing him a day?? u have NO rite to judge me so quickly. he's a pomeranian, its very common they get matts, and why do u all of a sudden attack me when its already hard enough for me?? HEAR MY DEADLY RAWR

do u know how much time we spend brushing him a day??

Do you get right down to the undercoat with a comb or just glide along the top with a brush.Because if you are brushing him properly everyday he shouldnt be full of matts.

u have NO rite to judge me so quickly.

Perhaps people wouldnt have to "judge" you,as you put it,i see it as giving helpful advice, if you had of been clearer in your first posting and not waited for 4 whole pages and nearly 2 weeks to pass before commenting again,and then only to hurl out abuse,because you didnt get the replies you perhaps wanted to hear.

So hows about posting again,this time in a fashion that will enable posters to help your dog and leave the hissy fits at the door?

do u know how much time we spend brushing him a day?? u have NO rite to judge me so quickly. he's a pomeranian, its very common they get matts, 

Well, if you "brush him daily" why is he all matted-up?

It sounds like you are not brushing him correctly, or at least not very thoroughly.  Are you line-brushing, where you methodically part the hair, and brush all the way down to the skin, never flexing your wrist?  And are you following-up with a comb to check your work? 

It dosen't sound like you resorted to everyone's advice to have your dog professionally shaved.  I don't think anyone is judging you, everyone is here to help. []  We have your animal's well being in mind.
 
Edited for spelling[8D]

I just want to say that I own a pomeranian and you literally have to brush in every which way to make sure all the knots are out. If the comb does not go through there hair smoothly, then you aren't done brushing! Missi takes about an hour -hour and a half to have her completely brushed out.
If your pom has that many mats, don't you think it would benefit the dog to have them removed properly? Even if that means shaving them right down? Just my 2 cents anyway.

Hear my deadly roar?  Oh please.
 
It's not how much you brush but whether or not you are brushing properly.  Brushing a german shepherd is a lot different than brushing a cocker spaniel or a pom.
 
My cockers would mat, until a groomer showed me how to brush properly.  This when I had to have a couple of them shaved.  It's incredibly frustrating to spend a heck of a lot of time grooming and STILL have matts that have to be cut out or shaved.  Knowing the right way to brush, and the right tools to use, made all the difference in the world.
 
This thread has been way off topic and gone all over the map, but I haven't seen anyone flaming so much.  You asked for advice and you were given our best recommendations.  It's only fur.  It'll grow back.  Get it shaved and ask the groomer to teach you the proper way to keep it matt free.

With a double coated breed, brushing does not do the trick. A brush will only get the surface hairs, the hair and undercoat next to the skin will not be touched. What you need to use is a comb or undercoat rake, and you need to know how to line comb.

It's easier to show someone how to line comb, but I will try to describe. First, place your left hand on the dog and slide it away from you a little bit. At the base of those hairs being held down by your hand, use the comb to make a part in the coat, maybe 3 or 4 inches wide and parallel to your hand. With the comb in your right hand, gently comb out the side of the part towards you. Then gently pull over some hair from the side under your hand, so that the part moves up a bit. Comb that section out, then pull some more over. You need to do the whole dog in sections like that. How much you can pull over at a time depends on how long since the last combing, how thick the coat, and how much shedding is going on. With my Samoyeds it's between 1/2 inch and one inch. More than that and there is too much pulling and the dogs don't like that.

With a double coated breed, brushing does not do the trick. A brush will only get the surface hairs, the hair and undercoat next to the skin will not be touched. What you need to use is a comb or undercoat rake, and you need to know how to line comb.

Line-brushing is really more effective, and not as painful a way of detangling.  A soft slicker brush is suited for a pomeranian.  An undercoat rake will tear-out live hair.   It is designed for a blowing coat, not general brushing/detangling.  I also believe that combs are better suited to check your brushing work, and for picking-out only tiny knots.

I stand corrected...I honestly don't recall precisely what I used with the cockers, but they had quite the array of tools. My point was that a groomer WILL show you what you need and how to use it properly and painlessly.

ORIGINAL: Firestorm

ORIGINAL: PomeranianLuvr

oooooooooooooh no we're NOT about to shave him. this is a POMERANIAN he's not even a year old. we've waited 4EVR for his hair to become like this, and its not even poofy yet. if we SHAVE him, it will take forever, and that'll take the beuty out of him....sry fellas.

Can you say that his looks matter more then his comfort?  How much more selfish can you be.?
How often have you been grooming your pup?
It won't take forever and besides how would you like your hair all knotted up so tight it pinched you?  Your poor poor pup.

 
This was my exact same thought when I opened this.  You did this to your little baby by not properly caring for him.  Now you fix it - get him to a groomer.  Yep, he'll need to be shaved.  But it will grow back for crying out loud.  Sheesh.
 
I just picked up a cocker spaniel foster dog.  He had mats so bad they were matted from his chest to his legs to his stomach.  Every time he walked it pulled the skin.  He has a tear in the skin on his chest from it because it was so bad.  It's neglect plain and simple. 
 
If you do love that dog, get him shaved down.  And as it grows, take the time to care for him properly so this doesn't happen again.  He's a pom for pity sake.  You couldn't possibly have thought that his fur gets that way on it's own with no care.  Did you research the breed before you got him? 
 
Sorry, this just frustrates me to no end.  How can people let their pets that they supposedly love get in this condition and then say they won't shave them, knowing the mats are their fault and causing the dog pain???  I'll just never understand people. 

Might I just remind everyone that nasty isn't necessary to make your points?

do u know how much time we spend brushing him a day?? u have NO rite to judge me so quickly. he's a pomeranian, its very common they get matts, and why do u all of a sudden attack me when its already hard enough for me?? HEAR MY DEADLY RAWR

PomeranianLuvr, if you would like I can PM you a video I took of us line brushing a Newfoundland dog.  This may help you[]  At our grooming shop we try to show people how to properly groom their dogs and if they are unable to do so then we just ask they bring them in more often.

Also, to make you feel better some of the worst pelted/matted messes we see at times are from show kennels.   At one kennel the owner hired a groomer to work with her dogs brushing daily and keeping them in show shape.  Then she would have my Sister trim them up before the show.  Well, this groomer didn't groom them properly.  She was only brushing the outercoat but, not brushing  the undercoat.  These Newf's were a pelted, matted mes.  Mats behind the ears, groin etc.  Since the Newf's were going to a show the next day we had to brush them entirely out ourselves.  So trust me, I can certainly emphasize with you. 

Just let me know if you would like me to PM you those video's.  I can also PM another video I have of how much undercoat you can get out brushing a double coated breed out while sud's up...non solid mats, bur's etc just slide out.  We get many double coated breeds in that are matted solid, we have a system that works great, and easy on the dog - easy on us.  I know you don't have a h/v dryer, but, these are really handy for a double coated breed, dry from the skin out about an inch from the skin.  Our dryers never blow hot.  I do not recommend using a hand held dryer that blows hot air as this can burn the skin...or be very uncomfortable.     

Hear my deadly roar? Oh please.

[sm=rotfl.gif]

Sorry..I dont know why reading this line cracked me up so much! I can just see Glenda sitting there with a perplexed look on her face saying out loud "Hear my deadly roar" and rolling her eyes []