Lacey has a back issue. Positive thoughts and prayers, please.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Lacey has a back issue. Positive thoughts and prayers, please.

     Lacey is my local shelter dog adoption.  She was found roaming the streets of Providence, RI, and ended up at the dog pound for over 2 months, as they had an outbreak of kennel cough and had to stop all adoptions (she did not get it). 

    At the time, my vet estimated her age at 5 to 7 years.  I had to have her spayed, and he said it looked like she'd had many, many litters.  Lacey is my heart dog, she's lived with me 6 years now, and it such a love!  So she is about 11 to 13 years old, I guess.

    She started loosing weight, slowly, about 6 months back, her spine started to protrude.  I had to in to the vet, blood work no x rays, and all was well, she checked out fine, so the vet said it could be age related, just as some humans as they age will develop a bit of a hump back and the vertebrae will protrude.

    Friday morning we got up and Lacey was shaking.  First I thought a low blood glucose issue (happens sometimes w/ small dogs) so I gave her syrup for that, but no improvement so we went to the vet.  On exam, she definitely has a sore place along her spine.  So she is on Previcox, an NSAID, for pain relief, and also Methocarbonal, a muscle relaxant. I am 'supposed' to be keeping her calm.  We also noted she has lost more weight, a total of 5 pounds, so she is down to 12.6 pounds, which is what she weighed when I adopted her.  That is about as low as she should go and remain healthy.

    Once the meds kick in, she feels well enough to jump on the sofa, hence I put supposed in quotes. Even then, she is cautious about the jump up, which may be because she feels some pain OR it may be that she is afraid she will feel pain.  If the meds are wearing off, and first thing in the morning, she asks for help to get up on the sofa.  I live in a ranch, one step to go out back, so even though she isn't supposed to do stairs I am allowing her to do that.  I have a set of 4 stairs for the pups to get up and down from my bed, I am lifting her up and down.  She has taken the stairs herself once since the vet visit.

    I'm concerned for a few reasons.  From the physical exam, the vet can't tell if this is a muscle issue or a disc issue.  Lacey is my bichon I've always said has some dachshund / Basset in her background, lol, she has a long LONG back!  The NSAID is once a day as needed; the muscle relaxant is up to 3 times a day as needed.  Yesterday afternoon she was looking woeful, and needed help up on the sofa so I gave her another muscle relaxant and it made NO change.  That worries me.

     She is supposed to rest for a month.  How long do I let this go on before I decide to have the xrays done, any thoughts?

    Bichons are not known for cancer of the spine.  Nevertheless, a few years back I had Ben, my one week foster, who did have a cancerous tumor on his spine and had to be put down.  It was a first in the 14 years the bichon rescue has been helping this breed, and took everyone bu surprise.

    She seems to have trouble eating. Lacey has an epulis (benign tumor on the gums, in her mouth) which 2 vets have assured me is NOT the cause of this.  I know exactly what caused this (it is usually a trauma). Last September she was in a rush to get out of the car and raced over my lap.  Her leash was tangled up, she jumped down to the garage concrete floor but her front legs were caught in the leash and she landed jaw first, I can still hear the CRACK!  (Now, none of the dogs are allowed to get out until I am out first, so I can manage their descent.) She was only dazed a second or 2 and then scrambled up and was off, the epulis developed over the next 10 days.

      I am now starting to feed her small meals multiple times a day, mostly soft food as she eats minimally when she has kibble. She will not eat ANYTHING cold.  Sometimes I give them chicken broth as a topper, if it is a new container from the pantry closet she is fine, if it has been opened, so comes from the fridge, no dice.   She won't touch yogurt, cottage cheese, or anything cold.  Even the hot dog bits I use for treats, she won't take them straight from the fridge, I have to let them sit and warm up on the counter about 10 minutes.  When we got on walks, the baggie is in my pocket, so that warms them up and she will take them fine.

    Sorry so long, hard to know what is relevant.  She is not on any other meds, has no other health issues.  Thanks!

    • Gold Top Dog

    I'm sorry Lacey is having problems.  It's hard to know how long to wait on some of these problems especially when the cause is unknown..  Personally, I'd probably be going in for xrays and further diagnostics, if she isn't better in two weeks.  The weight loss is worrisome and more loss would send me back sooner rather than waiting a month.  She's in my thoughts and I hope whatever is going on resolves and is nothing serious. 

    • Gold Top Dog

     

    Sorry to hear about Lacey's problem, my prayers are with her, and hugs from Ava and me.

    • Gold Top Dog

     ((( Sandie))) I don't have any advice; my thoughts and prayers are with you.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sandie, I don't have any personal experience with spinal issues, but I'm sending lots of good thoughts and vibes your way.  I will say that I'm a worry-wart, so I'd probably have the X-rays sooner rather than later.  Like Jackie said, the weight loss would concern me most . . . she's a little dog to be losing weight to that degree, and weight loss can mean so many things.

    I know you'll keep us posted. Give Lacey some gentle ear rubs from me!

    • Gold Top Dog
     Sandie, I'm so sorry you are going through this with your Lacey. I'm with the others and think I'd go for the xray as well, since she doesn't seem to be better. It would, if nothing else, rule out some things and ease your mind for the time that you are giving her the month of rest. As far as the weight problem, is there a possibility that she has a bad tooth. You mention that she doesn't want to eat anything cold, well that could very well be tooth related. I experienced that with one of my teeth. I just had a problem with one of our cats not eating, a cat that normally acts like he is starving and has never, ever refused food. The vet checked his mouth and his teeth and one of his canines had a lot of inflammation. It looked very sore indeed. We put him on antibiotics and it wasn't long after he had the first anti-biotic, that he was ready to eat like his normal self. Now to see if it gets really bad again, since he has finished the course of anti-biotics. I really hate the thought of having it pulled, since it is a canine and they have one heck of a lot of root. If it does get really bad again, we will have it pulled. So the sensitivity to cold and the not wanting to eat, could both very easily be tooth related. Didn't you mention not too long ago that one of your dogs just had their teeth cleaned and their breath still smelled bad? Or was that someone else spoke of that. Just wondering if it was you and if it was Lacey you might have been referring to. Just as happens sometimes with people, I'd think it could be the same with dogs, that there may be a very small crack that is not able to be seen but can cause one to be very sensitive to things they eat. That was my problem when I had the super sensitive tooth. Unfortunately Lacey can't tell you that and so that would be very difficult to diagnose. That would have to be a process of elimination of other things that might be causing it. Thinking of you and hoping you find out what the problem is and that it is nothing major. Sending along some pats on the head or chin scratches, whatever Lacey likes the best.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Sandie -- what you describe of Lacey makes me think of my Prissy. She was *my* heart dog -- lived to be just shy of 21. Pom/peke mix.

    Eat something straight out of the fridge? No. Excuse me, but absolutely not. Warm it up for me please! (read with a "Ladies do NOT eat cold food" uppity sniff!!) *smile*

    I agree 100% with Jackie -- x-rays right away and have the vet check out the reluctance to eat. They will tell you a lot - LOTS of spinal stuff isn't fatal, just needs to be managed.

    How far away from Kate H are you? She has an acupuncturist that she takes Sinbad to that she *really* likes. *IF* the vet determines this is spondylosis or arthritis, acupuncture can be incredibly good for pain.

    Have you tried massage? Again -- that's something to do **ONCE YOU KNOW** what is truly going on. You don't want to just try things willy nilly until you know, but it shouldn't be difficult to diagnose. Good luck!

    • Gold Top Dog

     

    Thanks for all the replies.  I have decided I will be phoning the vet again Tuesday to set things up.  Part of this is because the pain meds DO help, but a max of once per day is not enough, she is clearly in pain about 8 to 10 hours later.  Plus, she is peeing in bed -- and she sleeps on MY bed.  I can't decide if this is because she is sleeping, or if it hurts too much to get up and to use the pee pad.  Doesn't matter, at this point, I need to start the testing for diagnosis.

     Interesting to me, she still bounces and gets REALLY excited for walkies, and does fine on walks with me and the other pups.

    They can check her teeth while she is in for the x rays.  Lacey had a full dental and 3 extractions in January 2012, so she should be fine in that area.  It will be easy enough for them to check, and take action if necessary, while she is under.

    • Gold Top Dog

    calliecritturs
    Sandie -- what you describe of Lacey makes me think of my Prissy. She was *my* heart dog -- lived to be just shy of 21. Pom/peke mix.

     

     

    Eat something straight out of the fridge? No. Excuse me, but absolutely not. Warm it up for me please! (read with a "Ladies do NOT eat cold food" uppity sniff!!) *smile*

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Oh yes, that is my Lacey as well.  Lacey does NOT eat fruits or vegetables, and should I "DARE" to put even a small piece in her dish, the look of distain is quite clear!  And she has always then walked away, the entire bowl has been contaminated, ha ha haaa.

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog
    Freedom
    Oh yes, that is my Lacey as well.  Lacey does NOT eat fruits or vegetables, and should I "DARE" to put even a small piece in her dish, the look of distain is quite clear!  And she has always then walked away, the entire bowl has been contaminated, ha ha haaa.
    I don't put stuff in the bowl -- if I 'add' something I mash it up and stir it into the rest of the food -- unless I want it seen AS a treat and then it literally goes from my mouth to theirs. I will "bite" off a piece and hand it to them. In fact at my house a lot of training goes into that -- because I literally teach "chew it good" and "just swallow" to mine -- it's really handy when you want to give them medicine (in fact it can save their lives) -- and with multiple dogs it can make it easier because "greed" is a helpful tool. The fussy one LIKES being "fussy" but suddenly when I take that out of the equation by saying "Oh ... you don't want this? Here Luna!!" GULP!!! Charlie was reticent at first -- in fact he'd obviously been punished for taking ANYTHING off the floor! But from my hand is no problem. He'll never be as food motivated as the pug is -- but hey -- is the Pope Catholic?? NO buddy is as food motivated as a pug!! LOL
    • Gold Top Dog

    7 AM gave Lacey her previcox (NSAID) Decided to stop the muscle relaxant.

    8 AM phoned in, made appt for tomorrow for the x rays, left lot of info.

    9 AM, I am out, vet returns call, left message on machine.  The Previcox could be overworking her kidneys, causing increased thirst and the urinating, so top that med (too late for today!).  The muscle relaxant  is too strong, making her dopey all day, so cut that in half again (down to 1/8th of the pill) and see if that is better.  I have not given her that, though.

    The problem w/ the x rays:  only about 60% of disk issues show up on x ray.  So if the x ray shows a disk issue, we know it is that.  If it does not show one, it still 'could' be that.   Of course, something ELSE could show up on the x ray.

    Lacey is barely eating, in all yesterday she ate 1/4 cup of kibble.  I spent all day offering her treats, tidbits, canned food, soft foods, all sorts.  She turned her head away from all of it until about 7:30 PM when she ate the small bit of kibble.  

    Today she is definitely more perky, still not interesting in eating.  Can't get up on the sofa herself, needs me to lift her up.  She does not look so mopey / dopey as she has the past few days.

    At least she has not wet the bed any more that was crazy washing all my bedding 3 times in 48 hours!

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sandy -- the problem with all of the meds is the side effects are **huge** for the benefit and they get so dopey.

    As an alternative -- you might want to consider simply an herbal relaxant.  A nervine herb like valerian root.  That will relax the muscles enough so the NSAID works better.  It won't zone her out at all -- and it's not habit-forming (like muscle relaxers are -- I've 'been THERE done it" myself these past four weeks!!

    As far as NSAIDs - previcox is well known to be not kidney friendly. Rimadyl is hard on the liver. 

    Again -- there *are* herbs, but they need to be judiciously applied and frankly you'd be better off with a GOOD holistic vet.  As  I mentioned above, Kate (FrisbyPI's Mom) -- hs someone in RI she **really** likes for Sinbad (and he's got a lot of issues as well).  But she likes the way this gal combines things to make something work for *this* dog.  Rhode Island isn't that big -- if you want to email me I can forward it to Kate if you want. 

    I will say this - the reason I'm telling you to do with a vet **specifically** for herbs is because just like pharmaceuticals, some herbs can be dangerous.  And on a dog as fragile as she is, you don't want to jump into the frying pan from the fire. 

    There *are* herbal NSAIDs -- like white willow bark -- but she's too small.  Even a 35 pound dog I would only tell you to use like 1/16th of a teas. of white willow bark on a dog-- that's a TINY amount and it can cause stomach upset just like any regular NSAID.

    But there are things you can work in concert that aren't hard on the body, that do bring a ton of relief, and will help her.  But you really need a good holistic vet to help you.

    I would **strongly** suggest acupuncture.  Kate and I *both* prefer regular needle acupuncture to the electronic version -- it quite simply works better.  However, if she's a bite risk, you can have the vet use electronic acupuncture (at least until she got used to being handled).  But I can tell you it is an amazing help pain-wise.

    It is **very** likely the nsaids have triggered an ulcer.  I can send you the recipe for the slippery elm cocktail which honestly is incredible to help the stomach.  You don't mix it in food - you simply squirt it in her mouth.  It's not bad tasting - it has almost no taste at all in fact.  It *can* be room temperature.

    I would also strongly suggest trying the topoical essential oils.  I swear Sandy -- I would have just crawled in a hole and pulled it in after msyelf YEARS ago had it not been for the pain relief I get from the oils.  More than ANYTHING else -- those oils comfort and bring relief.  They don't hurt your stomach ... they just help. 

    The other thing that will help calm her stomach down is chamomile tea.  Just from the grocery store -- brew it in a cup and let it steep fully.  You can use a baby medicine syringe and just dribble it in her mouth slowly enough behind the big canine tooth for her to swallow.  It will **not** hurt the stomach - it will, in fact, settle her stomach.  And you can make it warm so it is soothing for her.

     The other thing I do a lot -- don't *ask* her to eat.  it sometimes stresses them -- especially if the very idea of food is "ick" (my word but it fits, trust me).  Don't even ask -- don't even TRY to 'tempt' her.

     Instead -- take the decision totally out of her paws.  Either puree kibble with some chamomile tea or use baby food meat and chamomile (and maybe a little plain slippery elm) -- make it liquidy enough to put thru a baby food syringe.  Just squirt a bit into her mouth behind the big canine tooth (keep her mouth loosely shut).  Give her a squirt and walk away.  Then 10 minutes later -- give her another bit of it in her mouth.  Walk away.  In other words -- don't hover.  Just do it like it's "medicine" and don't hassle her. 

    They can get SO conflicted over eating (I know Mom wants me to eat but I DON'T want to eat but I want to please Mom but I DON'T want to eat ....) that it can eat them up emotionally.

    so don't even ask.  Just syringe feed her for a couple of days.  Once she begins to get stronger she won't mind it so much and usually you can get them back on regular food that way.  Happens with IMHA dogs all the time.

    I will email you my cell number -- if there is anything I can do let me know.  In fact, if you want to email me (my email is in my signature) I have a small bottle of White Flower Oil right here, right now in my desk and I'll put it in the mal on my way home!!

    It breaks my heart to see any animal or human in pain from arthritis/spondylosis -- because there **is** relief. 

    • Gold Top Dog
    Sandie, I hope you get some answers tomorrow.  Sending lots of good thoughts and vibes. 
    • Gold Top Dog

     Vet just called w/ the results.

    1.  There is a collapsed disk, but we could not use either anesthesia or sedative ("SOMEONE" forgot to lift the water bowl overnight!" so they won't move to surgery for an x ray on an awake dog .  Will use gabapentin for pain relief

    2.  There is blood in her urine, so she has a UTI, will start antibiotics for that.

    3.  She is constipated, but this could be due to the back pain, that she does not want to arch her back.  Need to add some canned pumpkin to her food.

     

    I can go pick her up, on my way!

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    I'm glad you've got some answers.  Poor Lacey!  Can't poop and it hurts to pee and her back is hurting like crazy. Sad With the UTI treatment and some relief for the constipation and the analgesic I hope she's feeling much better soon.