Dog Community

Crystals in Urine

Posted : 4/20/2013 10:26:50 PM

So my 9 year old Chihuahua has crystals in his urine he gets bloodwork and urine test done yearly and this is the first it has shown up. On March 21 there were Ammonium Phophate Crystals (4+) he was put on a medication for almost a month and we re tested while these type of Crystals have gone down they are now a (1+) he has now gotten Calcium Oxalate Crystals in his urine at a (3+) so we stopped meds and Vet put him on the Hills S/D diet which to be honest I HATE I am not a big fan of the hills brand I think there food is junk. Its first ingredient is cornstarch yep!!! Now they only want him on it a week before we retest his urine again. But I am thinking maybe I just need to change his food permanently from the research I have done these crystals can form in older dogs who maybe cant quite process all the protein there food gives them as well as the mineral content of there food. Looking up protein is easy for dog food the mineral content not so much. So I am wondering if anyone has had a crystal problem with there dogs urine and if they found a great food that helps a GREAT QUALITY food I might add. Thanks

calliecritturs

Posted : 4/21/2013 12:31:03 AM

Ammonium Phophate crystals are struvite crystals -- usually those happen in urine that is too alkaline (the ph is too high). The treatment for those tends to involve acidifying the urine more.

However -- it's possible the treatment went too far, making the urine TOO acid. oxalate crysals tend to happen in urine that is TOO acid (the opposite from the other).

A couple of years ago Luna came up with struvite crystals -- I over compensated a bit -- **and** I switched her from d-mannose to cranberry (she gets uti's easy) just to do something "different" .... but what I didn't know was that I was using too much calcium in my home-cooked food. One of my vets had suggested I use bone meal rather than the sea calcium I'd been using -- but no one told me to use LESS of it. so I was being way over generous with the calcium -- add to that *cranberry* and suddenly within 2 months we had OXALATE crystals!!

Oxalates are scarey because they tend to be genetic. And they are tougher to get rid of than the struvites (which often correct just by making thr urine less alkaline)

So -- examine the process -- given that you went from one type of crystals to the other -- which is sort of a 180 degree backstep -- I suspect if you adjust the diet (rather than going to this whole big prescription diet) you may be able to get it back to normal.

It jsut seems coincidental that I had a dog that flip-flopped from struvite PAST "normal" in the middle all the way to the opposite type of crystals (found usually in urine that is too acid) - it almost sounds like the correction you made to get rid of the struvites might have set you up for the oxalates.

I got this turned around pretty easily -- and boy howdy am I now really *super* careful of how much calcium I'm giving (bashing head against the wall is NOT my favorite thing to do)..

Dog food companies tend to add *lots* of calcium. Usually more than needed. That's not usually a huge problem unless other things affect it.

Freedom

Posted : 4/21/2013 7:45:11 AM

Bichons are prone to crystals, so I see lots of the discussion on the bichon forum. Keep in mind, breeds do differ somewhat in their response.

The vast majority of bichon owners are having more success with Royal Canin prescription formulas then they are the Hills formulas; to the point that we now guide everyone to insist their vet prescribe the RC line of prescription diets.

Trying to manage crystals on your own, be it processed food, raw diets, home cooked, just has not worked. There is some benefit coming from all the research done, and the prescription diets are the way to go for this problem. One woman's bichon had 2 surgeries in 18 months before she capitulated that she could not control crystals without a prescription diet. This woman did extensive online research herself, home cooked for her dog, used supplements including cranberry tablets for dogs, it just did not work. And then, her poor dog needed a 3rd surgery before we guided her to RC formulas!

The Hills formula which is supposed to break down the crystals (sorry I forget which one at the moment) is so high in fat, that many bichons develop pancreatitis while on it! We have not seen this happen at all with the Royal Canin diets.

Once your pup is cleared of crystals, you may want to consider taking in a urine sample monthly for testing. Crystals can form in as little as 6 weeks. Catching them early can mean use of prescription food will break them down, and you avoid surgery. We have quite a few bichon owners who have had to resort to this.

rellasmom

Posted : 4/21/2013 9:40:13 AM

I did read that yes the other type can form if you lower the ph to much. According to his urine test though we didn't he was a 7.5 on the first test and the second urine test 3 weeks after meds were started the ph was 7 which I think is a normal ph right? Should I worry that these other crystals formed in 3 weeks time and so many of them? I absolutely want to make a diet change just not sure where to go with it. He has been on purina pro plan for seniors for like 2 years sometimes I would buy him a sensitive systems by purina pro plan every once in awhile which is what he had been on before the senior food.

rellasmom

Posted : 4/21/2013 9:44:46 AM

I think he is on the hills sd diet it's canned and looks so gross. Now that you say it's high in fat that has me worried because he has gotten pancreatitis in the past just from his regular dog food. And these new crystals formed in 3 weeks and in high amounts. So with the royal canin diet is that something that stay on for life or just while we try to get rid of the crystals? The vet only wants him on the hills sd for a week before we retest I hope we see no crystals cause this is stressful.

jessies_mom

Posted : 4/21/2013 1:21:39 PM

Freedom
The vast majority of bichon owners are having more success with Royal Canin prescription formulas then they are the Hills formulas; to the point that we now guide everyone to insist their vet prescribe the RC line of prescription diets.

Jessie does not have problems with crystals, but she has chronic pancreatitis. She has been on a combination of a Blue Buffalo product which is 8% fat and cooked diet. Recently she went through another flare up. Last week I discussed options with an internist at a nearby vet teaching hospital and she recommended Royal Canin prescription food stating that dogs with pancreatitis do very well on it. She said "it's expensive, but if you're interested, I would definitely go for it." Jessie is allergic to some of the ingredients in the dry food so I started her on the wet food last Wednesday. She wouldn't touch either the cooked diet she had been on or the Blue Buffalo, but she ate the Royal Canin canned food immediately and it's been amazing how quickly she's recovering. She was weak to the point of being a little wobbly and now she acts completely normal. So, our experience with Royal Canin has been very positive. One thing to also keep in mind when considering a prescription food is that they are regulated by the FDA and the companies have to show proof that the diets are effective in treating the conditions they are designed for.

calliecritturs

Posted : 4/21/2013 9:46:56 PM

Freedom
Trying to manage crystals on your own, be it processed food, raw diets, home cooked, just has not worked. There is some benefit coming from all the research done, and the prescription diets are the way to go for this problem. One woman's bichon had 2 surgeries in 18 months before she capitulated that she could not control crystals without a prescription diet. This woman did extensive online research herself, home cooked for her dog, used supplements including cranberry tablets for dogs, it just did not work.

Absolutely!! I can *NOT* imagine anyone trying to do crystals on their own -- I have a hard time sometimes with TWO vets!! (and they aren't conflicting at all)

My caution about the cranberry is a serious one -- if you've got a higher PHl (struvites) then you're ok, BUT BUT BUT you absolutely *must* exercise caution with cranberry or you can cause the oxalate crytsals

Natasha -- you *HAVE* had both of the oppositie types. The first ones you mentione **are** struvite crysatls. And these latest ones are oxalate.

d-mannose helps iwth the uti's -- but without the risk cranberry can have.

You absolutely need the urinalysis ... and honestly I would *only* do a homecooked diet if you have a vet right there by your elbow guiding you thru it

rellasmom

Posted : 4/28/2013 7:35:28 PM

Been a long week still don't have retest results I took him Friday but go figure he had no urine in his bladder little stinker so we go tomorrow for us again and should have results Tuesday hoping for them to be gone.

calliecritturs

Posted : 4/28/2013 9:37:37 PM

Natasha - I hope the test goes well!!

rellasmom

Posted : 4/30/2013 7:31:54 PM

Alrighty all crystals are gone. His Bilirubin is high at 2+ it was 1+ before. His P.H. went from 7 to 5.5 and his SP Gravity went from 1.050 to 1.018. The next challange choosing new food. The vet wants to put him on a lifetime change to science diet c/d food. I HATE the prescription diet foods they always have like corn as a first ingredient. I went to petsmart and spent over an hour reading dog food labels I narrowed it down to Simply Noruish or Science Diet Ideal Balance which again not a big fan of the science diet brand but at least this one was good ingredients first a meat no corn wheat or soy any thoughts on what to do ???

rellasmom

Posted : 4/30/2013 8:17:41 PM

ok maybe going with the Science Diet Ideal Balance Food. At least there is no corn no wheat no soy it has ingredients like cranberries carrots and apples. Is it wrong to not go on the c/d food that the vet says to I just think that brand of food is crap for food. I have never not feed my dog a good food that has real meat in it. I dont want these crystals to come in choosing to not go on the c/d but dont want another health problem to arise because we went on a crap dog food in my opinion.