Heart problems in seniors, any help is appreciated.

Lee debbie

Another thing about CoQ10. I've read many people see results after giving awhile. I've been giving for months and hardly see an improvement in Alphie's panting, and now Ashton's panting more. I'm reading up about ubiquinol which is a reduced form of CoQ10. Think it's worth a try?

My bet is the Co-Q-10 is helping more than you'd think -- that's not a vitamin that takes months to be effective - it is literally effective within 15 minutes, so it probably IS helping more than you know.

 You can however, double whatever you're giving if you want to -- I used to give Ms. Socks four times her weight in mg (so about 200 mg) -- but usually I could hear less distress in her breathing after giving it.  It simply gets the oxygen TO the cells a bit better.   You're probably looking for a "change" that won't happen because it's already *doing* something that you may not even notice.  It was always a subtle change for Socks, but it did make her more comfortable.  She'd lie down and be comfortable rather than INSISTING on being outside.  (sometimes a dog having trouble getting oxygen will demand to be OUTside all the time simply because they feel there is more 'air' out there and it's easier to breathe -- that's mental but it's not an uncommon feeling) 

Lee debbie

And those who have experience with supplementing, please do chip in.

Vet says to give both of them 500mg of L-carnitine twice a day, 1000mg of taurine twice a day, CoQ10 100mg once a day.

Mordanna says to give Alphie about 2000mg L-carnitine twice a day and 500mg of taurine once a day, 200mg hawthorn berry twice a day and CoQ10 60mg twice a day. (haven't received Ashton's diet plan)

I'm having trouble finding a middle ground. 

I've supplemented L-Carn and Taurine with several dogs.  Typically they're more generous with the L-Carnitine than the Taurine.  Usually 500 - 1000 mg L-Carnitine twice a day and 500 mg of Taurine once a day.

For some reason Billy always did better  with more Taurine so I always gave him 500 mg of Taurine twice a day as well.  Dr. Demers never had a problem with it -- he says some of them just don't absorb it as well as others.

I bought hawthornberry in bulk -- I gave 1/4 teas. twice a day.  (that would be one capsule twice a day) - it tastes like dusty strawberries -- Billy thot it was yummy. 

I have zero experiences with a coolling vest -- sorry.  I know we use a backpack on the pug sometimes and she seems to find it hot.  But she finds ANYTHING restrictive hot

 OK We'll see how it goes with these guys. I'll give them that dosage.

 Today, we had an acupuncture session. TCVM vet said Ashton's heart seems to be beating stronger than before but at a really low rate. 60+. Alphie's is 90+. She just said with such a low heart rate she wasn't too surprised that Ashton seemed lethargic, but it does sound serious to me. For a golden, anything below 70 isn't normal. I'm worried.

Lee debbie

She just said with such a low heart rate she wasn't too surprised that Ashton seemed lethargic, but it does sound serious to me. For a golden, anything below 70 isn't normal. I'm worried.

why?  if he's relaxed?  a high heart rate worries me far more than a low one.  And as long as it's strong I wouldn't worry. 

 Really? I saw the vet's reaction and got a little concerned. Yeah I would think too high a heart rate is worse. I just took his heart rate (i just got home, he was happy to see me, but walked to me slowly), and it's ard 60+ as well. I can find much information on high heart rates, but not much on low, EXCEPT some sinus thing which is correctable only by pacemakers.

At Shane's last regular vet visit, his heart rate was about 60 bpm and the vet commented how great that was. Shane is on Atenolol (a beta blocker) and prior to putting him on that, his heart rate was about 90 bpm, so the medicine is doing it's job. If you're able to get a low heart rate without meds, I'd consider that a good thing too.

When I took him to the TCVM vet, she sent us home with a product called Canine Cardiac Support. It's a powder that you add to their food and it's fairly pricey IMO but the cardiologist said she was fine with me giving him that. She (the TCVM vet) also had me start him on Carnitine but I can't remember what the dosage is.

Our vet said Ashton being big should have a rate of around 80, and even commented that Alphies (90+) was strong and good. I guess coupled with his slowing down, it became a 'problem'. just like his ultrasound results, 3 minor issues became a larger problem. I hope for Ash, the medicine is also working.

My TCVM vet also got me the heart Qi tonic. Someone had a sticky poop after that. I spoke to the vet on the phone, and told her I was concerned that she was concerned, to which she said the heart Qi tonic should get everything better. And in 2 weeks we're seeing the cardiologist to monitor Ashton's progress on vetmedin. And then I read that vetmedin shouldn't be given for aortic stenosis. I'm confused. That's what he has.

calliecritturs

I bought hawthornberry in bulk -- I gave 1/4 teas. twice a day.  (that would be one capsule twice a day) - it tastes like dusty strawberries -- Billy thot it was yummy. 

 

I can't get the actual thing so I got the supplements. Thing is; hawthorn berry or hawthorn extract? Hawthorn berry is [(Crataegus oxyacantha) (Fruit)] while hawthorn extract is [Hawthorn (Crataegus laevigata) Extract (Leaf & Flower) (Standardized to min 1.8% Vitexin)]+ [(Crataegus oxyacantha) (Fruit)]. Both from NOW foods.

 The box of supplements first given had an ingredient listed "hawthorn berry extract".. so yeah... both sound about right. So leaf & flower or just berry.

 I pierced the CoQ10 gelcap as I normally would do, and some got on my fingers, so I took a sniff and it smelled like lemon. I checked the bottle label and saw a d-limonene on the "also contains" line. I googled and found it is a substance normally used in flea prevention topicals. Is this safe for dog's consumption?

I'm happy and vet is happy to say that Ashton's heart contraction capacity has increased ALOT. It's now in the 50 range, previously 32. Vetmedin, with acupuncture and supplements are truly helping. Unfortunately, the chinese heart medication (or could be anything else) is causing soft stools so we'll continue that once his tummy gets better. I'm so happy and relieved!

 That's great news!!!

calliecritturs

Don't change both at the same time -- try giving the probiotics and add the herbals back in ... then if that's ok try to phase out the probiotics or just give them every other day.

I'm now stopping the chinese medication, not all, but only the most recent one. And giving probiotics. Stools are slightly firmer but still tad mushy. Another thing I thought of could be Glycoflex 3. This was started around the same time as the heart qi tonic. I'll have to stop both and once stools are firm, start them back slowly.

When my golden retriever, KayCee was about 6 we found she had an enlarged heart chamber.  My vet put her on low dose blood pressure med (same brand as hubby takes, only 1/4 the strnght he tkes) daily, and a baby apsrin every other day. 

 She never had a problem with her heart at all, and I lost her at 8 yrs.9 months to cancer.  Sending worlds of good thoughts for your "fur kids.".

Lee debbie

I'm now stopping the chinese medication, not all, but only the most recent one. And giving probiotics. Stools are slightly firmer but still tad mushy. Another thing I thought of could be Glycoflex 3. This was started around the same time as the heart qi tonic. I'll have to stop both and once stools are firm, start them back slowly.

If mushy stool is a side effect to NEEDED medication for the heart, then treat it as a side effect rather than having "perfect stool" be the goal.  In essence -- priorities.

You can always add something to make the stool firmer -- "perfect stool" isn't high on my priorities list when they're taking meds for something they need -- it depends on what the meds are FOR. 

In other words -- go by what the various things are for -- and strike the less important ones not the important ones.