Laryngeal paralysis; GOLPP

Unfortunately I have no experience with that at all -

I've had older dogs have surgery but with a vet I trust HIGHLY and after bloodwork.  I really can't help you tho, sorry

 I'm new to this too. Vet says no supplement or medication can help this condition. Just monitoring. I hope it doesn't become worse.

 I'm reading up and apparently acupuncture can help (not cure) the condition. How it does so, I don't know, and would like to know if anyone has tried acupuncture 

Also, his weakness in the limbs isn't *all* due to arthritis (it could be, or not). LP does lead to neurological degeneration and can cause weakness in hind limbs. I've noticed how he drags his left hind sometimes but stumbles over the front.

 ((( HUGS))); Hopefully, I can help you and ease your mind somewhat. Jessie will be 14 next month and was diagnosed with LP in the summer of 2009, when she was 10. No vet can predict the outcome; each dog is different. Her LP has been progressing slowly and she has not needed surgery. If it ever affects her quality of life to where she doesn't have the energy to go for her walks, then we'll have the surgery done. What types of surgery are done in Thailand; I ask because in this country they do a unilateral tieback and the success rate is 90%. This surgery has fewer complications than older procedures. It is extremely important to have a surgeon who is very well experienced with LP surgery do the surgery when or if your dog needs it.

Lee debbie

weakness in the limbs isn't *all* due to arthritis (it could be, or not). LP does lead to neurological degeneration and can cause weakness in hind limbs. I've noticed how he drags his left hind sometimes but stumbles over the front.

  LP doesn't necessarily mean your dog has a neurological disorder; Jessie has been examined by a veterinary neurologist and has no signs of a neuropathy .Any dog can experience muscle loss in their rear legs as they get older. The best way to prevent this is by regular exercise. Jessie is walked at least 30 minutes daily.

  There is a forum for owners of dogs with LP;     LP : for owners of dogs who have laryngeal paralysis

  The people on this group are very supportive and can help. Many of them have been through the surgery with their dogs and can answer questions you have about it. Dogs with LP can have aspiration pneumonia; Jessie had a mild case 2 years ago. She acted fine, normal appetite,  but had developed a cough so I took her to my vet. A cbc and xrays confirmed pneumonia. She was put on antibiotics and recovered quickly.

  Edited to add;  The only real way to diagnose LP is to have a surgeon examine Ashton's larynx while he's under very light sedation. If too much anesthesia is used, the sides of the larynx won't move, so you need someone who knows what they're doing. Jessie also has chronic bronchitis, a condition which can also cause wheezing. That is diagnosed by xrays ; there will be interstitial patterns in the lungs. It is not an infection and white blood cell count will be normal.

 The vet who 'diagnosed' him was the one who did the ultrasound. She was explaining how his breathing/wheezing didn't come from the heart so she's not concerned about his heart, though I'm still scheduling a heart ultrasound. She seemed to be sure that it's a stridor while I heard a faint wheeze. I wish if it really is LP, it doesn't progress to a dangerous stage. I tried going to my local forum, and nobody seems to experience this before, but this French vet told me it could be repaired via surgery, which I'm not too keen on, unless absolutely necessary. I don't know how specialized she is or experienced with this condition, and I don't want Ashton becoming a guinea pig for her. I hope the heart ultrasound will reveal more.

 I'll want to investigate more on the wheezing, just to rule out everything else or at least find the real cause. This is really worrying, especially the 'wait and see if it worsens'...

Lee debbie

This is really worrying, especially the 'wait and see if it worsens'...

  I understand how you feel. If Jessie needs the surgery, there are vets at a nearby vet teaching hospital that are very experienced since most dogs with LP in our state have the surgery there. My vet doesn't recommend it until Jessie's quality of life is affected since there is a 10% mortality rate, but some people have the surgery done on their dogs right after they're diagnosed. Regarding your concern for having surgery done on an older dog; most of the dogs on the LP forum are 9 or older when they have the surgery, and they did very well. Jessie had an MRI last February, which required being under anesthesia for almost an hour. She did fine. I doubt if the french vet would do the surgery if she wasn't experienced. The placement of the stitches that tie back the arytenoid are critical. You can ask the french vet how experienced she is with LP surgery. She may also be able to refer you to a good surgeon.

jessies_mom

You can ask the french vet how experienced she is with LP surgery. She may also be able to refer you to a good surgeon.

I'll ask her, unfortunately, she isn't there full time, we had to wait a month for the ultrasound appointment. Apparently she's the best in Singapore for ultrasounds (and the most expensive ). She came up with this pre-diagnosis so I'm assuming she's pretty well-versed and she's also a cardiologist. As for surgeries done here for past LP issues, I'll need to check. I hope it's not the case that when dogs suffocate here, the owners just take the horrible route of PTS. IF the vet gives the ok for surgery, I'll just have to trust. Then again, they gave the ok for Axl's dental, and IMHA came knocking 2 weeks later. THAT is my greatest fear, and then comes AP. 

We hardly have specialist vets here, the French vet and her husband are the closest to what we'd consider as specialists; a cardiologist, ultrasound and orthopedic. The rest of the vets have special interests in internal medicine, holistic medicine, acupuncture, but mostly are like GPs.

I sat with Ashton a good hour this morning before leaving for work, and didn't hear a single wheeze, maybe because he was busy whining and making baby sounds. ARGH I just really hate the fact that they are now 'seniors', he's still that little fella who sits on me while I drive.. though 75lbs.

Lee debbie

he's still that little fella who sits on me while I drive.. though 75lbs.

 

 LOL; that's quite a picture.  Hopefully he lays in your lap so you can see. I feel so bad for you; you're really at a disadvantage finding competent vet care. In the summer of 2009, Jessie was diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis, LP, and chronic bronchitis. Needless to say, it was a rough time for us. The vet teaching school that is nearby was a tremendous help. Jessie has food allergies and can't have most RX or over the counter dog foods, so my vet consulted an internal medicine specialist at the hospital about how much fat Jessie could have in her diet and I was able to find a food that worked for her.  Another specialist at the hospital prescribed Flovent for her chronic bronchitis; it is a tiny dose ( less than 1/4 mg) of inhaled steroid that goes directly to the lungs to control the inflammation. The usual treatment is oral steroids, which have serious side effects. Have you joined the LP forum yet? There is information about acupuncture and other alternative treatments in the file section. 

 I've joined the forum and already have quite abit of information on acupuncture for LP. It's very disheartening to hear that no medication actually slows the progress or stops it. Ashton has been lethargic and we're going in tomorrow to stress him further with cardio ultrasound. He doesn't cough except when he drinks. I might get his lungs checked too, just to rule out any other problems. I'm so afraid that when I have to go to Hongkong end of November that anything could happen during the days I'm away.

I've read that certain bach rescue remedies could also help in calming the dog especially during an attack? He doesn't have attacks, but he gets upset when there's thunder. Also, have you tried cooling vests? They are so expensive including shipping, so meanwhile I'm thinking of taking along a spray bottle to spray on his underside during walks. The weather here really isn't dog friendly,  as well as the vets. Well, credit given we have good vets for joint surgeries (Axl had one and had been jumping till the day IMHA hit him) otherwise, I've never heard much success in other ailments.

Lee debbie

Also, have you tried cooling vests? They are so expensive including shipping, so meanwhile I'm thinking of taking along a spray bottle to spray on his underside during walks.

  I've looked at them online but haven't tried them. It does get hot here in the summer and this year we had more days in the 90's than usual. I or DH walk her early in the day, while there are still long shadows and the sun hasn't had a chance to warm the air. On days when it's in the mid 60's or higher in the morning, I do use a spray bottle and wet down her belly, chest, and armpits just before we begin our walk. It really does help. We also carry a small bottle of water and a collapsible bowl and offer her a drink about halfway through the walk.

Lee debbie

He doesn't cough except when he drinks

    Jessie does this too; it's a common symptom with LP. We use a glass pie pan for her water dish because it's shallow so she can't drink too fast, and it's elevated. This has helped.

Lee debbie

It's very disheartening to hear that no medication actually slows the progress or stops it

    I give Jessie CoQ10. I think it can be helpful in dogs with this condition;      Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University

   The veterinary neurologist I saw didn't recommend any supplements for Jessie because she doesn't have any signs of a neuropathy, but some of the members of the forum have had co enzyme Q 10, fish oil, and L carnitine suggested by neurologists.

    Good luck with the ultra sound; I hope he doesn't have a serious heart condition.

Did Ashton's ultrasound for the heart today, vet confirmed he has LP in the early stage, as well as congenital heart disease as well as dual something valve regurgitation. This explains his stumbling because his heart is not functioning well and isn't able to pump blood efficiently to the rest of the body. We did acupuncture today for the nerves and hopefully will help in conjunction with the medication he's prescribed. I am so upset, I've always thought he was the healthiest and in the best condition. 

Lee debbie

This explains his stumbling because his heart is not functioning well and isn't able to pump blood efficiently to the rest of the body

  I'm so sorry. Did the vet suggest any supplements for the heart condition? I think Callie may know of some that are helpful. ((( hugs))).

 He's been given a drug pimobendan at a very low dose. I wish I could remember the exact condition he has. I can only vaguely remember the vet saying he has 3 issues. 2 with the valves regurgitation and aorta something, and that each problem isn't worrying but together, she wants him observed. He's not on this med, and coQ10 and omega(which I've started awhile ago), Taurine and L-carnitine. I'm so terrified now, I don't know if I should restrict exercise, or restrict. I don't know how dangerous the situation is, and the vets might have sugar coated the diagnosis or told me as it is.

Lee debbie

I'm so terrified now, I don't know if I should restrict exercise, or restrict. I don't know how dangerous the situation is, and the vets might have sugar coated the diagnosis or told me as it is.

enough exercise to keep them strong enough to be healthy but no more than that.  Like I said in the other thread -- if I were you, as reactive as they both can be, I'd keep walks close to home (around the house if need be -- around and around and around) -- to minimize chances of them having a meltdown on lead

I doubt the vets have "sugar coated" the diagnosis -- but I think you need to ask the acupuncture vet where "reality" lies.  The worse thing you can do is let yourself get all freaked out. 

Just back off on the exercise.  You don't have to avoid it totally.  Your TCVM vet should be able to give you the heart herbs they want them on. 

I think I asked either above or in the other thread -- do you have them in harnesses rather than collars?  Have you elevated feeding bowl so that dog doesn't have to swallow "uphill" .  I owuld also make sure that dog eats SLOWLY -- even if you have to put obstacles in the bowl (like some big plastic toys so the dog has to pick the kibble out from around the toys -- just make sure they are toys that are too big to eat.

 Yup I have them on harnesses when we walk, the collars are put on only for the sake of ID tags. As for feeding, I am using the slow feed bowl which has grooves so they take couple more minutes to finish. Haven't elevated Ashton's bowl, I'll start to do that.

TCVM vet didn't actually answer the question about whether she is going at the points for LP, except that she's trying to balance his Yin/Yang and increase his Qi so there is a certain balance and that *should* iron things out. She also prescribed Heart Qi Tonic for both of them, so actually nothing specifically for LP.