Enlarged heart in senior

I'm sorry you're facing possible heart problems with your girl. My golden has a heart defect and the cardiologist said to give him 150 mg of CoQ10 daily. I also give him fish oil. That was the extent of what she'd allow other than the beta blocker she prescribed. It really is important to run everything by your vet first. I know the feeling of wanting to jump on it and get started with something that might help but it's rarely that urgent and the downside could be huge. In our case. the cardiologist said that hawthornberry would be a very bad thing for Shane because it works to strengthen the heart muscle and he doesn't need that to happen. Until you know what you're dealing with, proceed cautiously. I wish you the best of luck.

Has her blood pressure been checked?  Have her thyroid levels been checked?  Has she been checked for tick-bourne illnesses or heartworms?

This is a good site on how to support the heart:  http://www.dogaware.com/health/heart.html

Other sites:

http://www.2ndchance.info/heart.htm
http://www.dog-illnesses-n-symptoms.com/canine-enlarged-heart.html
http://www.lbah.com/word/causes-symptoms-of-heart-disease/
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2096&aid=3584

Debbie -- I've posted it a ton of times -- go to Page 1 of the thread and look for it in the index "how to give meds".  There IS a trick to it -- but DO NOT NOT NOT hide meds.  It will bite you!!

You gotta SHOW them you're putting it in something slippery and yummy -- "just swallow".  in other words dear doggie -- the taste sucks!!!  SWALLOW it!!

 But there's a way for you to give it so it will slide down -- if you have questions let me know.  But it's 12:30 a.m. and I don't have it in me to type it out again tonight!! *sorry*

 Oh, I was about to look to purchase hawthorn berry.. Other than what the x-ray showed, vet didn't further investigate, until we have the ultrasound done. She kept telling me not to worry, how could I? It *could* be due to old age, it *could* be a heart problem, it *could* also be laryngeal paralysis. We had her thyroid levels tested (T4), they only do T4 and cholesterol here and not the full panel unfortunately. Her levels have gone up after starting with a herbal formula called thyroid activator. But that's been only about a month, so maybe we need more time. Her heartworm test was done last month, when she donated blood to Axl. I'm reading much about hawthorn berry, L-carnitine, taurine, but all I have here is L-lysine, but haven't started on any of them.

I took a peek at her from far when she was asleep; she's quite an anxious pup, so she springs up when she knows i'm near, and tried to count her breathing rate while asleep. Not too fast, but I could be wrong, breathing looked deep and slow, but I might not be able to see the small pants from that distance. When her eyes open and she's awake, she pants again.

Lee debbie

I'm reading much about hawthorn berry, L-carnitine, taurine, but all I have here is L-lysine, but haven't started on any of them.

l-carnitine and taurine are typically gotten from red meat -- but often are supplemented in dog heart patients.  I used both on Billy at my vet's request.  L-Lysine is an amino acid -- related to the immune system usually.  Not seen that used for heart.

The T-4 is the least reliable of the thyroid levels -- that one bounces up and down easily.  You do understand that even if the vet prescribes thryoid "pills" they ARE a supplement.  That's not a difficult thing for her to take -- but they are prescription only.  I'm not at all sure and OTC supplement would change the actual thyroid levell  You should discuss that with the vet.  But if you DO start to supplement him, you will need to do bloodwork to check it -- both to establish the dose and to maintain it.  But again -- I'm sure it's difficult where you are.  Your vet needs to guide you on that.

Usually with heart stuff shallow pants aren't indicative - that is typically pain or heat (or prednisone as you know).  But rather deep slow labored breathing is the bad sign to watch for. 

 I've asked for a thyroid panel and told them it's not the T4 i'm looking for. My vet in nice and all, but she said that's all they do T4 and cholesterol.  That's probably all they do here. It's very discouraging and frustrating that we're so limited in this aspect while they boast to do stem cell therapy bla bla bla.. They are now on thyroid activators because it's not a good enough low in the T4 so she's not medicating them, but mostly because they seem to have the symptoms, like being over weight, coarse fur, and simply being golden retrievers. We took a T4 before starting on the supplements, and took blood 2 weeks after, it did go up to a mid normal. I'll speak with her about this again.

Yes, the panting (when Axl was on preds) seemed too familiar which got me frightened, and my youngest boy doesn't pant this way, so the contrast was there.

Maybe you can get them to improve their testing.  Here is a quote from Dr. W. Jean Dodds, DVM - an internationally recognized authority on thyroid issues in dogs and blood diseases in animals. 

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-BEHV-THYROID.HTM
"While diagnosing thyroid dysfunction in companion animals can be particularly frustrating, especially when used for wellness screening of potential breeding stock, veterinarians may fail to appreciate that a simple total T4 test is usually nondiagnostic. In fact, the in-office testing of T4 has recently been shown to produce unreliable results in 52% of dogs and 62% of cats, and therefore should not be used even as a general diagnostic screening test."

I don't know if it would be practical to try to send blood from Singapore to Dr. Dodds (Hemopet.com) for a thyroid panel, but it might be worth a try.  Maybe she can recommend a testing location closer to you.

 I've told my doctor that quite honestly the T4 isn't sitting well with me, I'd prefer a full panel, she showed me their diagnostic charts, T4 was the only thing on the list for thyroids. Perhaps I'll ask for her to medicate them anyway starting with a low and safe dose while using T4 as a gauge. And it doesn't come cheap, it's $106 for a T4. I don't know if the blood could be viable if sent over it probably takes 3-4 days. That's why it reallllyyyy sucks being here and so far from actual good help. I thought the hospital we go to is the most sophisticated in singapore, apparently not. Other than the fact they have an MRI machine and some sophisticated expensive diagnostic machinery, but they don't even do Coombs test for instance. I think the vet is aware of the inaccuracy of the tests, which is why she prescribed some supplements. I'll talk to her again

Lee debbie

it *could* also be laryngeal paralysis.

  Jessie was diagnosed with laryngeal paralysis three years ago; she was lightly sedated and her larynx was examined by a surgeon. It's the only way to confirm the diagnosis. If your dog's not coughing, then it's very unlikely she has LP. The reason Jessie was examined for LP is because we were trying to find the reason for her cough. A dog with LP will often cough after drinking and when exercising (like when chasing squirrels).  Another common symptom is voice change; their bark is softer or muted.

 I've dealt with some serious issues with Jessie over the years; three years ago, in the space of three months, she was diagnosed with pancreatitis, chronic bronchitis,and LP. I can tell you from experience that you should take a deep breath, step back and try to think calmly; (((hugs)))

I think you need to take some deep breaths, and try to slow down and relax a little.

 I'm trying hard, so hard, Janice. All this is making me so crazy. I think you know what it is like. I'm trying to keep calm, and not worry too much. It feels better when I'm with them and hugging them and knowing they are ok.. and then watching them and getting worried over every small little odd behavior. I'm sorry you had to deal with so many issues with Jessie, I'm glad it's all good now.

I'm trying to think hard now and recall did she cough or was she clearing her throat, she does that funny odd sound twice after drinking and during exercise.. sounds more like a huge sigh or an "ahem"..., and burps after eating. She hardly barks, (Axl was our policeman), so though i can definitely recognize her bark, I can't say for sure it has changed. I'm speaking to another vet tomorrow, and I'll mention all the possibilities and see if she would do any tests.

 Took them in for a second opinion today. This vet says the Free T4 is sufficient and doesn't even suggest any thyroid supplements. I also spoke to her about Alphie's slightly enlarged heart and explained what I remember what Dr S said about the x-ray because I don't have the x-ray with me. She said it's no point treating something that isn't there, and leaving it till something comes up would be better. Another option, EKG or ultrasound. I asked about supplements like taurine, hawthorn berry and L-carnitine. She said no, not at the moment, and just told me that I could walk them more often like 4-5 times a day... this is where i wish i didn't have a job. She was more interested in treating Alphie for her joints and arthritis. Now I'm getting confused (more than I already am).

 It sounds like she agrees with Dr S. Concerning carnitine; there isn't a correlation between the amount of carnitine in the blood and the amount of heart muscle. It's expensive and you would have to give your pup large amounts to have any effect. Also, you are worried about her thyroid values; carnitine can effect the thyroid and people who are hypothyroid aren't supposed to take it.

 The cough you describe does not sound like an LP cough. An LP cough is very harsh; some people describe it as a goose honk. Jessie looks like she's gagging when she coughs.

I agree with Janice. It sounds like the vet(s) are saying there's no real concern regarding the thyroid or the heart. I'd take that as good news.

Ok, it's always better to know I was worried for nothing. I was going to sign up for hydrotherapy but told the therapist about her enlarged heart when she decided she wasn't going to take the risk with Alphie. But Alphie still does her walks with me and though she comes home and slums herself there and start to whine from the pain, I thought hydrotherapy would be less tough on her joints. I might just go ahead with that and continue to pray that her heart is doing good.

My golden retriever,  KayCee, had an enlartged heart chamber that was found due to chest x-ray abut about age 6 1/2.  It was not detectec by sound at all and more or less surprised my vet.  He put her on a very low dose of blood pressure medicinedaily--same as my hubby takes, onl much lower dose, and also a baby apsrinevery other day.  I lost her at 8 yrs. 9 months to coancer, but she never had a problme with her heart.  Hope you can get your girl on the right stuff.