I am going to try Pella on Milk Thistle for liver repair, from what I have read I should dose at 50% of human dose.
The one I picked up was 250mg/80% Silymarin in capsules form. So, do I just open the capsule up and give her half of the powder. She weighs 73 lbs.
Her liver level is high as I mentioned in another post, over 2000 U/L, but I read this could be a sign of cushings or cancer in the body. And she had a cancerours tumor removed. It doesn't really matter what she has, she is 12, But if the Milk Thistle will help in anyway I will try it.
I'm going to tell you to use more. Milk thistle does many things -- it helps 'protect' the liver, it helps with liver function and it helps with liver detox.
If you make Pasta Pesto -- you're gonna use LOTS of Basil. But if you're helping a jar of premade tomato sauce become pizza sause you may add a touch of basil. (and you realize that "basil" is an herb and it can also be used medicinally?)
Are you going to use the same amount of basil? no -- because there are two different purposes. Basil is the integral ingredient in pesto. In the sauce it's going to be just a bit of help.
Remember - milk thistle is an HERB. It is a plant. Part of how much you use depends on the quality of the herb you use. So you want the best quality you can find.
However -- you have to dose the herb for what you want to accomplish. Some herbs you never ever want to overdose on. If I were telling you to use white willow bark for a 73 pound dog, I'd tell you to use maybe 1/3 capsule. Because like aspirin -- too much can cause stomach burning/ulcers. But for milk thistle -- you use more to do different things.
Let me say that for Marin -- which is the pharmaceutical version of milk thistle you have to use the vet approved dose -- because it is SO processed you lose the protection you get with the natural herb. You can't use "more" of Marin.
To protect the liver when you are giving chemo drugs or immune suppressors - you use HIGH doses to accomplish that -- like up to five TIMES the adult human "dose"
But in your case you need detox and you need liver "assistance" to improve liver function. Those are pretty stiff doses of milk thistle given the degree of problem you're facing with Pella's liver. If this was "mild" liver trouble I'd say 1 -2 capsules twice a day would be enough. But not for what you need to do.
I would use at least 1 teaspoon of milk thistle twice a day (1 capsule is typically1/4 teas.) You can begin with capsules but they are pricey and typically not great quality. You will want to order milk thistle from a good bulk dealer. I usually refer people to http://www.leavesandroots.com -- you can get a whole POUND of high quality organic milk thistel for $20. That's a POUND.
In a health store you will pay about $18 - $20 for a bottle of mlk thistle capsules. In total that might have about 2 oz of milk thistle in it. (usually more like 1 1/2 oz). Most of your weight is the capsules themselves.
You will see the word "standardized" -- that means "averaged" -- it' a misleading term that is popular now. Most commerical companies that sell herbs just have a big "field" of milk thistle some farmer grows for them. They go with a threshing machine and just cut down whatever is there, grind it to powder after it is dried and sell it.
But -- herbs aren't regulated so most of those growers don't weed those fields - so you may have 1/3 of your field that is actually hay or goldenrod or some other "weed" (and frankly all weeds ARE herbs and will likely have other results than what you want). So you want to go with a trusted excellent source (like Leaves and Roots carries Starwest which is a really good brand. HerbPharm is all wildcrafted herbs (no pesticides, very carefully kept "crafted" so that it is 100% the herb you were trying to buy).
But when they say standardized -- they will take what they got from this farmer's field, and Field #30 and the other farmer's field -- dry and pulverize ALL of them mixed together and call that "standardized" -- meaning if the farmer's field had a lot of hay, Field #30 had 10% weeds and the 3rd field had 25% then the whole lot was "standardized" (meaning "average";). Supposedly that keeps it within a "range" of purity. But frankly -- the only thing that is "pure" is what IS 100% pure.
Not everything "organic" is good but it tends to be better. Mostly you want to go with a respected, trusted source -- particularly when you are just learning.
But honestly ... a 73 pound dog is NOT a small dog -- and I give my PUG (who has some ongoing liver issues) over 1 teaspoon of milk thistle twice a day. She also gets other herbs to address specific liver problems.
HOWEVER -- for this dog of yours? I'd have Pella on SAM-e. THAT is what will significantly help bring down liver values. Don't use human SAM-e unless you pierce the capsules and squirt it out. Human SAM-e typically is formulated in gelcaps to dissolve enterically (in the small intestine) and dogs can't do that.
I like Cell Food SAM-e -- it's a liquid and it does have the Cell Food supplement in it too (which also helps with liver function). But it's a little squirt bottle - and you'll use 15 - 18 drops twice a day in her food.
I have seen SAM-e take down liver values that were up in the 3000 to 4000 range. yes, honestly I have. SAM-e is price -- but it si INCREDIBLY helpful.
Your vet probably sells Denosyl - that is the pharmaceutical version of SAM-e (it's by the same company that sells Marin). NutraMax Labs has a good reputation among vets -- I don't like the company much (I loathe their "testing" methods) but it is a decent product.
However -- the problem with Denosyl (or DenaMarin which is a combo of the two) is that it tends to be difficult to digest. I know TONS of owners iwth IMHA dogs who have reported the dog throwing up the capsule an hour later still pretty much intact. That's why I like the liquid one.
TRY the SAM-e -- for what you have going on with Pella it WILL help. Feel free to email me if you want. With all the stuff I've learned having both an IMHA dog and a liver-compromised pug (and I keep her liver values bang in "perfect" most of the time now -- but it IS an effort) I've learned a LOT about these herbs and supplements.
Let me hasten to say: "Herbs ARE medicine -- just because you can safely use a LOT of milk thistle ***DOES NOT*** mean you can use LOTS of most herbs. They ARE medicine -- you have to use the right dose for what you need to do"
I"m also going to say this -- we live in a "take two" society. They package herbs in little capsules and white plastic snap-top bottles to sell in herb shops, health stores, pharmacys and Wal-Mart.
But think back to my basil analogy. Herbs are PLANTS. They aren't processed and formulated to get them to a specific strength to then put in capsules to sell. Most of the commerical capsules are either 00 or 0 sized. One holds about 1/8 teas. and the other about 1/4 teas. It's SIMPLY a standard sized capsule. That does NOT mean that what fits in that capsule of this herb or that herb is an actual sensible dose.
What it honestly means is it is a "dose" that is low enough that they won't get sued if someone abuses the herb. Remember the flap about Kava Kava? It's a nervine herb and people decided they could use it as a sedative or a "chill me out pill" and use it for months on end and take LOTS of it.
Think the same people who actually respond to those crazy SPAM adds for "enlargement" pills and all the prescription only sedatives. The big companies have to sell their products in mind that those sorts of people will abuse them.
So generally you have to go to a good herb book (or 3 or 4) to find out what the REAL dose should be.
**I* wouldn't take the "dose" of white willow bark that is sold in capsules day after day or it would give ME an ulcer. Mostly the big corporations selling herbs willy nilly -- they haven't a clue. They're selling herbs because they are popular right now. The really GOOD companies aren't even widely sold any more -- because they tend to be more expensive because of the quality of their product (like Gaia or Solgar - THOSE are still good brands. Solaray? Nope -- used to be good, now it's crud!)
I've got a zillion books on herbs -- if I can help you find out something just ask me. If I don't have it I can probably tell you where to find out about it.
Sorry -- this was long -- but hopefully it will help you.