Update: How do you know when it's time?

{{Hugs}}  I dont have a really good answer.  I know with Shadow he was young but we just knew.  I questioned that decision several times afterward but that was for us not for him.   I know now, it was time.   Just know that when it come time to make that decision we will be here to support you.

 I agree with what the rest have said, you have to look at the overall picture.

So the dog can't walk; there are wheel chairs for pets, some you can make yourself using PVC pipe.  Would that solve the issues?  Not in every case, this is why you have to consider all aspects of what is going on.

 I've been through it a few times; it is never easy, it is never the same.  I too am grappling with this issue with my Marlin and have an appt with the vet tomorrow to discuss what options I have to keep him going just now.

 Hugs to you, this is the hardest part of pet ownership, IMO.

 I'm sorry you're dealing with this. :( Everyones different, but for me its about quality of life.

I honestly agree with every single person -- but for *me* the answer has been different with every single dog.

There are some dogs who just have such a force of "will" that they are NOT going to be stopped.  Otehrs?  if they are miserable the way they are that tells the story.

I don't mean this to sound anthropomorphic but maybe it will help.  If this dog COULD talk, and you sat down with them to share a fresh bowl of water -- what would they TELL you. 

Little Miss Kee Shu never EVER "gave up" in her life.  She was a survivor to the max -- she was always gonna move *forward* (even if she couldn't remember where the heck she was going!!)

She got SO elderly.  Couldn't locomote at all without falling over.  But she was gonna EAT.  She enjoyed her naps.  She enjoyed being WITH.  No problemo. 

I wanted her to just 'Pass' -- she was SO ... "elderly" is the only word for it.  David and I argued for two months about it.  But it was easy to keep "going" because -- much as I hate to admit it -- she just kept going (think "Energizer Bunny" in 2018 on the same baqtteries??)

But lo and behold -- one day she just plain STOPPED eating.  Then it got easy.  That was the que we'd waited for and she DID give it to us.  Suddenly, nope -- would *like* to want to but nope can't eat.

That night we let her go in perfect peace.

My Foxy - the last "infection" he had was really his body just plain shutting down on him (he was 18) - but HE wasn't done.  NO way.  He wanted to eat, he wanted to TRY to walk, he wanted to TRY to pee on his won.  His will was VERY strong -- and he'd always made himself abundantly clear to me. 

I gave him a few days ... and finally that last morning Nope ... DONE.  He may as well have screamed it at me.  REfused to stand.  I gave him water by syringe -- he SPIT it at me.

Ok ... I get it I get it.  I took him straight up to Dr. Bailey!

Ms. Socks had cancer -- she had a sudden painful "burst" where a nodule ruptured and she came in ... looked at her food bowl, turned around to me -- looked at her bowl again, SIGHED HUGE and turned around and very **deliberately** walked away.

Done. 

All 3 very very different dogs.  All three "quit" at different places.  But all 3 made it abundantly clear THEY were done.

For **me** that's more comfortable.  But you have to be really comfortable making that sort of judgement about what the dog is telling you.

All I can say is think of THIS dog's personality.  How would THIS dog feel about not being continent.  Some dogs are beyond fastidious.  If Billy had ever soiled himself he would have been so beyond miserable it would have plunged him to depression.

Kee Shu?  No biggie to her. 

Does that make sense? 

I think it also has to be what is in YOUR confort zone.  If you've always had a really active, athletic relationship with this dog, and if Elderly or frail types of behaviors are uncomfotable for you, then I don't think it's wrong to consider that warning enough. 

This is such an incredibly personal thing ... compounded by the unique relationship each of us has with each dog -- there are no wrong answers here.

Personally -- I give HUGE HUGE HUGE merit to what Jackie said -- I'd rather let go a day too early than a day too late.

The last "story" I'll leave you with was my original heart dog Prissy.  Pom/peke mix - she lived to be 20.  She went thru all the abuse wtih my ex-husband and all the 'bad days'.  I was so bonded to her it was literally unhealthy.

At the end she had a series of strokes.  Not only was I not mentally able to even *think* of euthanasia (I am NOT proud of how weak I was at this point) but my ex and I were literally half an inch from living on the street -- and I honestly didn't even have the GAS to get her to the vet to beg them to euthanize her and let me pay later. 

I put her thru h#ll that last day.  I allowed her to see me in full grief -- I simply sat and rocked her all day long just waiting for her to die. 

She wouldn't leave ME.  (another dog with a huge life-force and self-will)

Finally the phone rang and I left her on the sofa so I didn't disturb her while going to answer it.  She "left" while I was 15 seconds at the phone. 

I'm not proud of that -- I will NEVER EVER allow that to occur with another dog. 

My point is this -- don't just examine the dog -- examine yourself.  The dog **must** be first.  If the signs are there that this dog is "done" -- so be it.  Gather yourself together and don't let them see you fall apart. 

And sometimes YOUR mental state may be the biggest part of "when" -- because the more frail they get, the more labored it all becomes -- the HARDER it gets to let go. 

Tiffy said "Quality of life" -- I'm going to add "dignity" to that.  Whatever THIS dog considers "dignity".

For every single dog I've ever owned -- that word "dignity" really did mean something different to each.  But it also has to mean something to you.

Either this was helpful or it was totally "not".  But it's a tough thing to put into words.

I'm sorry you are going through this. I have little to add as the others have pretty much said what can be said. I guess all I can add is trust in the love you have for her and you will make that decision when it is right for all of you. Hugs to you.

I am so very sorry that this has happened to you and your girl.  I truly know how difficult it is to try to make a logical choice when your heart is trying to tell you something different. 

When My Soul Puppy had to cross the bridge she was 13, we had spared no expense to control a badly placed aggressive but benign tumor. She had 3 seperate surgeries to debulk it as it was not possible to get clean margins because of the type of tumor. We had changed her diet, I cooked for her daily. If I could have donated a body part to have kept her an additional 6 months I would not have thought twice in doing so.  To say she was the heart of our family would be an understatement. She'd saved my life when I was having seizures from medications by alerting and getting me off the road. Had I ignored her I would have been in a crash that would most likely have been fatal for myself anf others.  The Doctors told me it was a fluke but after that first alert , she warned me twice again and I stopped driving.  ( The doctors felt the adjustments they had made would do the trick and I would be safe but the on going seizures proved them to be very wrong!) She and the rest of my pack alerted and saved my preemie grandson when a SIIDS incident would have cost him his life. 

 Like your girl, she seemed to be handling things far better than we could have hoped. However towards the end  it became apparent she was hanging on for me, not because she truly enjoyed living any more.  She ate because I coaxed her, she went out because I helped her.  The day came and we knew. It was in her eyes, she was tired. As we went in, my husband and I were struggling to cope with the heartbreak of knowing there was nothing more we could do except honor the promise we had made her.  As we were waiting for the vet my very strong husband began to cry ... I have only seen him cry one other time in our, at that time, 26 years of marriage.  I reached out to him and squeezed his arm, when he looked at me I said as kindly but firmly as I could. " You can NOT cry right now.  You MUST be strong and solid for her or leave us to do this by ourselves." He looked at me quite startled, I went on " She will fight the meds if she sees us crying as she will feel she must some how help us. I will NOT have her feel as if she has failed us in any way"  He nodded and managed to pull himself together.  We held her close and when the shots were given we told her to go,  that we would follow when we could, we kissed her and told her what an amazing Girl she had always been, the Best of Girls.....   She was able to gently cross the bridge, relaxing into our arms.  The vet allowed us the room where we sat  holding her and cried for nearly an hour before beging able to drive her home. There our family 2 and 4 legged had a chance to reconcile themselves to her loss.  It was more than a year before I could say her name with out breaking down.  And another year before I could return to the circle of Dog Show friends who had all known and loved her. She was Legendary in our community for her pranks and wicked sense of humor.  Now 4 years later I still long for her, but I know we did the best thing for her. We kept our promise.  I have her 4 month old Great Grand Daughter who is the first pup to display her Great Grand Dam's traits. Like my Soul Puppy her greatgrand pup is a major challenge.

What we learned decades ago from our Mentor, and what we teach our Puppy Families when they join our pack. WE make a promise to these furkids of ours when they join our lives that we will protect and love them all the days of their lives. We make sure they and we understand that we will never make them hang on until WE are ready. It will always be about them and the quality of their lives , not about our emotional needs. 

It is far better a week too soon, than a day too late.  They should never know any thing but love in our hands.

You are the only ones who know this girl well enough to know what the incontenence, or ever weakening legs mean to her.  For our breed it would be a brutal way to be forced to linger.  If she feels that she is becoming a burden, or even worse that because she can no longer control herself she is a Bad Girl for soiling in the house is that fair to her?  As the others pointed out it is different for everyone. Each experience is both personal and somehow the same. All of us know the pain of that question..... when it it time?  Trust yourself,  you love her best. You will know.

When you do have her cross, a word of advice, have the vet do it in two steps. The first shot should be a sedative, to calm her making it easier when the second shot is given.  When done in a single shot fashion many dogs panic at the unfamilar feeling.  And remember to give her permission to go...  she needs to know it's okay.

((((HUGS))))  Don't forget,  there is always someone here that will understand if you need a friend.

I am so very sorry that this has happened to you and your girl.  I truly know how difficult it is to try to make a logical choice when your heart is trying to tell you something different. 

When My Soul Puppy had to cross the bridge she was 13, we had spared no expense to control a badly placed aggressive but benign tumor. She had 3 seperate surgeries to debulk it as it was not possible to get clean margins because of the type of tumor. We had changed her diet, I cooked for her daily. If I could have donated a body part to have kept her an additional 6 months I would not have thought twice in doing so.  To say she was the heart of our family would be an understatement. She'd saved my life when I was having seizures from medications by alerting and getting me off the road. Had I ignored her I would have been in a crash that would most likely have been fatal for myself anf others.  The Doctors told me it was a fluke but after that first alert , she warned me twice again and I stopped driving.  ( The doctors felt the adjustments they had made would do the trick and I would be safe but the on going seizures proved them to be very wrong!) She and the rest of my pack alerted and saved my preemie grandson when a SIIDS incident would have cost him his life. 

 Like your girl, she seemed to be handling things far better than we could have hoped. However towards the end  it became apparent she was hanging on for me, not because she truly enjoyed living any more.  She ate because I coaxed her, she went out because I helped her.  The day came and we knew. It was in her eyes, she was tired. As we went in, my husband and I were struggling to cope with the heartbreak of knowing there was nothing more we could do except honor the promise we had made her.  As we were waiting for the vet my very strong husband began to cry ... I have only seen him cry one other time in our, at that time, 26 years of marriage.  I reached out to him and squeezed his arm, when he looked at me I said as kindly but firmly as I could. " You can NOT cry right now.  You MUST be strong and solid for her or leave us to do this by ourselves." He looked at me quite startled, I went on " She will fight the meds if she sees us crying as she will feel she must some how help us. I will NOT have her feel as if she has failed us in any way"  He nodded and managed to pull himself together.  We held her close and when the shots were given we told her to go,  that we would follow when we could, we kissed her and told her what an amazing Girl she had always been, the Best of Girls.....   She was able to gently cross the bridge, relaxing into our arms.  The vet allowed us the room where we sat  holding her and cried for nearly an hour before beging able to drive her home. There our family 2 and 4 legged had a chance to reconcile themselves to her loss.  It was more than a year before I could say her name with out breaking down.  And another year before I could return to the circle of Dog Show friends who had all known and loved her. She was Legendary in our community for her pranks and wicked sense of humor.  Now 4 years later I still long for her, but I know we did the best thing for her. We kept our promise.  I have her 4 month old Great Grand Daughter who is the first pup to display her Great Grand Dam's traits. Like my Soul Puppy her greatgrand pup is a major challenge.

What we learned decades ago from our Mentor, and what we teach our Puppy Families when they join our pack. WE make a promise to these furkids of ours when they join our lives that we will protect and love them all the days of their lives. We make sure they and we understand that we will never make them hang on until WE are ready. It will always be about them and the quality of their lives , not about our emotional needs. 

It is far better a week too soon, than a day too late.  They should never know any thing but love in our hands.

You are the only ones who know this girl well enough to know what the incontenence, or ever weakening legs mean to her.  For our breed it would be a brutal way to be forced to linger.  If she feels that she is becoming a burden, or even worse that because she can no longer control herself she is a Bad Girl for soiling in the house is that fair to her?  As the others pointed out it is different for everyone. Each experience is both personal and somehow the same. All of us know the pain of that question..... when it it time?  Trust yourself,  you love her best. You will know.

When you do have her cross, a word of advice, have the vet do it in two steps. The first shot should be a sedative, to calm her making it easier when the second shot is given.  When done in a single shot fashion many dogs panic at the unfamilar feeling.  And remember to give her permission to go...  she needs to know it's okay.

((((HUGS))))  Don't forget,  there is always someone here that will understand if you need a friend.

rufftie

strangely, we've been discussing this on another dog forum. good advice i've stored away from that discussion was the "3 loved things" theory. pick the 3 things your dog loves doing the most. eating, playing fetch, following you around the house, riding in the car, whatever it is YOUR dog enjoys. when s/he is unable to or does not enjoy 2 of those 3 things it is time to seriously consider letting the dog go. i hope i can see this when the time comes.

I like that, thank you for sharing this with us.

I'm right there with you at this moment.My 13 year old lab can't walk unassisted on her bad days,has had frequent accidents because she can't feel that she needs to go and has begun having seizures every two or three weeks.For us the time to help her pass will be when she loses interest in food.Like you my girl's mind is still sharp and that's what keeps me from making the call.My thoughts are with you now as this is a time we on this forum know will be heartbreaking but it is the price we all pay for loving our dogs so deeply.

                                                                                    Tena

Bonita of Bwana

When you do have her cross, a word of advice, have the vet do it in two steps. The first shot should be a sedative, to calm her making it easier when the second shot is given.  When done in a single shot fashion many dogs panic at the unfamilar feeling.  And remember to give her permission to go...  she needs to know it's okay.

WHAT SHE SAID!

It is the most important thing said in this thread.

If a dog has been ill a while or is very elderly, often the blood vessels have begun to shrink -- so when the vet asks to bring the dog "to the back" to insert a catheter?  LET THEM.

This keeps you from getting upset.  They'll bring the dog back with a small plastic thingy in a vein -- they then can put the valium (or whatever sedative they use) in first ... no pin at all ... and then whenever you are ready, they do the pink stuff (the euthanasia drug).  Depending on the vet they may charge you an extra $15 for the catheter, but it is SO worth it.

Have zone this three times -- ZERO trauma for the dog.  Far easier for me to deal with as well. 

Thank you everyone for the kind words and advice.  These stories and words are truly helpful.  I know we are coming very close to the time.  Yesterday she had a good day.  She did not have any accidents and she looked to be a lot more engaged.  She was also able to move around a little easier with just some help from us.  She had to think about eating but managed to do it without much coaxing (maybe the scoop of frozen yogurt helped, I know I hadn't seen that much enthusiasm for a while).  Yesterday was not THE day and we'll see how today goes.  When the time comes I think having a mobile vet come to the house would be the best option.  I'll be sure to share our journey and my thoughts here.  It is wonderful having a place where I can talk to people that understand.  The hardest thing I'm having to do is deciding if and how much she is suffering.  It's true that she can't really do and isn't showing much interest in the things the loved the most before all this, but there are still a few things that I can see still please her.  I'll go buy her a meaty bone every day if it makes her happy, and of course it's so much more delicious when our other dog is staring at her eating it.  She loves to gloat.