Senior with Thyroid and Liver Issues

DawnG

I also posted below that the vet has him on 90 mg Sam-e now.

  I assume he's on Denosyl? It's expensive, but it is very good quality and I doubt if you could find SAM-e in that small a dose made for humans. If you decide to try another brand, you should know that many brands do not have the amount of SAM-e that is stated on the label, some having much less than they claim;  

SAM-e SO-SO - health claims of S-adenosylmethionine evaluated | Nutrition Action Healthletter | Find Articles

  Scroll to the bottom of the page for the report on the brands that were tested.

DawnG

Thanks Jessie's Mom :)  I have copied the recipe in case I can't find any existing diet that will help him.  I am sure Canidae or Eagle Pack offers a good fish formula.  Once I get it all understood and crammed into my brain, I will look for what may work best.

    I know what you're going through; Jessie was diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis three years ago and it took awhile to precess the information and find the right diet for her. Have you asked your vet why he wants your pup on a low protein diet? It may be best to discuss that with him before trying the cooked diet that I linked or another commercial diet. Low protein diets are recommended for dogs with liver shunts. Also, did your vet mention testing for cushings? The increased hunger and urination are symptoms of cushings. Usually dogs with liver disease have decreased appetites. Cushings can cause hypothyroidism.

jessies_mom

DawnG

I also posted below that the vet has him on 90 mg Sam-e now.

 

  I assume he's on Denosyl? It's expensive, but it is very good quality and I doubt if you could find SAM-e in that small a dose made for humans. If you decide to try another brand, you should know that many brands do not have the amount of SAM-e that is stated on the label, some having much less than they claim;  

 

SAM-e SO-SO - health claims of S-adenosylmethionine evaluated | Nutrition Action Healthletter | Find Articles

  Scroll to the bottom of the page for the report on the brands that were tested.

   

DawnG

Thanks Jessie's Mom :)  I have copied the recipe in case I can't find any existing diet that will help him.  I am sure Canidae or Eagle Pack offers a good fish formula.  Once I get it all understood and crammed into my brain, I will look for what may work best.

    I know what you're going through; Jessie was diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis three years ago and it took awhile to precess the information and find the right diet for her. Have you asked your vet why he wants your pup on a low protein diet? It may be best to discuss that with him before trying the cooked diet that I linked or another commercial diet. Low protein diets are recommended for dogs with liver shunts. Also, did your vet mention testing for cushings? The increased hunger and urination are symptoms of cushings. Usually dogs with liver disease have decreased appetites. Cushings can cause hypothyroidism.

I will check out that page about the Sam-e.  Unfortunately I am sure it will be depressing :(

The vet did not say to me specifically if he checked for cushings, but considering the symptoms I feel confident he did.  I will have to ask though.  I know one specific test he was somewhat concerned about was for Valley Fever which is fairly common here for animals and people. Thankfully that was negative.

 Going by the 4 brands that passed all these tests, I see a couple of them have 200 mg of sam-e.  The dosage my dog is on now from the vet is 90 mg.  Do you think cutting these in half, that it would be safe enough to give him 10 mg more than the prescription ?

DawnG

Do you think cutting these in half, that it would be safe enough to give him 10 mg more than the prescription

   You're not supposed to break or split tablets because it will cause the SAM-e to rapidly degrade. I had Jessie on Denamarin a few years ago, and got it online much cheaper than what my vet charged. Allivet usually has very good prices, and they ship promptly;

  Denosyl , Cat Liver Supplement| Cat Supplements, Dog Liver Support, | Allivet Trusted Pharmacy

  You may also be able to find it on Amazon.

jessies_mom

DawnG

Do you think cutting these in half, that it would be safe enough to give him 10 mg more than the prescription

 

   You're not supposed to break or split tablets because it will cause the SAM-e to rapidly degrade. I had Jessie on Denamarin a few years ago, and got it online much cheaper than what my vet charged. Allivet usually has very good prices, and they ship promptly;

  Denosyl , Cat Liver Supplement| Cat Supplements, Dog Liver Support, | Allivet Trusted Pharmacy

  You may also be able to find it on Amazon.

 

Thank you thank you thank you 

jessies_mom

  I assume he's on Denosyl? It's expensive, but it is very good quality and I doubt if you could find SAM-e in that small a dose made for humans. If you decide to try another brand, you should know that many brands do not have the amount of SAM-e that is stated on the label, some having much less than they claim;  

I'm going to jump back in here -- Denosyl is great *but* (this I'm gleaning from a lot of IMHA dog people's input) it can be pretty danged hard to digest (lots of reports of dogs ralphing it up hours later still in it's recognizable form -- food digested, denosyl not!

You **can't** use most of the human SAM-e easily -- it's almost without exception "enteric" -- this means it's designed to digest in the small intestine.  Dog's don't digest stuff in the small intestine well at all (people do, dogs don't).

HOWEVER -- CellFood's SAM-e is **wonderful**.  It's a little bottle of liquid -- you just put the drops in their food twice a day.  For a small dog start at 3 drops and make sure it's well tolerated -- you can go up to 5-10 drops (I used 13 on Billy at almost 30 pounds).  I wouldn't do less than 5 -- not when you're trying hard to detox the liver.

But it's wonderfully absorbed by the body.  Vitamin Shoppe carries it (it's about $38.95 for the bottle but it's gonna last you 2-4 weeks).  If you're familiar with Amazone (particularly if you are a Prime member) you can get it there (about the same price as Vitamin Shoppe but you don't have to start your car and drive somewhere).  I've also seen it on E-bay -- but as with any E-bay purchase, buyer beware!  There are a few that look danged good priced tho (but it would depend on shipping)

DON'T try to break the SAM-e human capsules -- not to try to use "some" later.  That's not going to work.  SAM-e is flukey -- it's really perishable -- light destroys it (which is why those caps are all locked up in separate blister packs and even the CellFod SAM-e is in an opaque white bottle)

Now to pierce the caps and add all of the cap to food?  That would likely work altho I've never done it.

"Do you think cutting these in half, that it would be safe enough to give him 10 mg more than the prescription ?"

You're talking about the prescription for Denosyl?

Denosyl and human SAM-e aren't fully interchangeable (because it's literally *for* dogs.

owever -- any "excess" SAM-e that you give is just excreted by the body -- it's not dangerous.    I've got some problems with the company -- but it'sa HIGH quality product -- difficult to digest tho.  But SAM-e by itself isn't dangerous -- any excess is just pooped out. (my vet and I have had this SAM conversation)