Ear Infection Help

    • Gold Top Dog

    Ear Infection Help

     I'm asking on behalf of a friend who has a Cocker. This guy gets frequent ear infections, and the vet they see doesn't seem to  be able to solve it. In addition to looking for a new vet, they're also looking for something to clean up his ears. I know I used to use a powder I got from dog.com, but I don't think it is still sold. I know some people also mix up something, but I have no clue about what that is. Is there anything anyone uses or makes that might help this poor guy?

    • Gold Top Dog

    I personally am careful with ear infections especially with breeds prone to them (our in-laws cocker suffered from them for years and my GSDs get them on occasion). I do not like liquid solutions that basically flood the ear because they can flood the infection or the yeast (depending on what it really is) deeper into the ear canal.  If I suspect an infection I use an ointment like Zymox, just use a few drops, massage the ears gently, and allow the dog to shake his head so the gross debris gets worked out.  I use pre-moistened ear wipes but am careful to not dig them in and push debris back into the canal.  Honestly the anti-bacterial/anti-fungal ointments are so cheap these days I doubt any home made solution would be worth it.

    I think they should determine whether it's a yeast infection, bacterial infection, etc and then use the right ointment and make sure to use it consistently for a good period of time like two weeks.

    They should probably also look into other causes like diet or allergies.  My in-laws fed their cocker the worst food ever and I swear that was making it worse.  I could not convince them to switch so instead I convinced them to give him a heaping spoonful of their yogurt and they think the probiotic helped.

    • Gold Top Dog
    I agree with Liesje... I'd look into diet first and foremost.  It's often allergies that's causing it.  I like Vet's Best for ear wash... though usually I just put some apple cider vinegar on wipe and clean it out that way.  But ear infections aren't something to mess with.  I would change the dog to a grain free, fish diet while swapping vets.  Blue power ear is supposed to be good cleaner (you make it youself, I don't have the recipe handy) but, it's easy to find.... like I said I personally have been happy with Vet's Best and just simple ol' apple cider vinegar.  GOod luck, that's very aggravating to have a chronic problem.
    • Gold Top Dog

     I am pretty sure they feed him something good, so a food change suggestion really shouldn't be too tough. I know my guy in the past, that Four powder (not Four Paws) totally took care of my problem. I just used it however often the package said, and he never had gunky ears again.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Given that these are **RECURRING** the very first thing is to go to a vet and **ASK** for a culture & sensitivity to be done (before you "wash out" or clean out the ear -- let them culture what is there DEEP in the ear).

    THEN you can clean and whatever -- but let them send away a culture & sensitivity **first** and get to the bottom of whatever is there.  Some vets tend to just treat yeast infections over and over and they never seem to think it might be bacterial or deeper.  A C&S is about $100 BUT it is worth it.  It will tell exactly *what* bacteria (if any) is there but even more, what drug it will take to get rid of it.

    You can get e-coli, strep and all sorts of bacteria in ears and sometimes it takes a specific antibiotic to get rid of it.

    If ear infections go on and on for years the inflammation literally causes the ear canal to "ossify" -- meaning it turns into bone.  Once that begins to happen it becomes **extremely** difficult to treat ear infections because it shuts off the blood supply to the ears (and most antibiotics pass thru the blood supply).  The ear canal down deep may have thinned to the point where very little in the way of "drops" may get in.

    They **must** find this out.  This is why my Muffin lost both ears -- I had an idiot for a vet at the time (boy did I learn a LOT about what signifies "bad" there) -- he'd look and say there was bacteria and play at giving me genticin drops.  Genticin is fine but it's not strong.  And we messed with TONS of Otomax and stuff that soothed but didn't treat -- and eventually his ears swelled SHUT.  That's after me having the dog at the vet over and over and over not realizing that it wasn't just "recurring" ear infections but bad vet care.  Had we known earlier we could have saved his ears.  It surely wasn't for lack of having been vetted -- he was at the vet every other week for his ears.  I never dreamed the vet just wasn't doing the right stuff.

    By the time I got to a good vet it cost Muffin his ears.  There was a TON of e-coli and strep in there (along with a bacteria no one could identify).  It was about $2000 each ear and it deafened him.. He lived thru it -- many don't.  I only *wish* I'd known then what I know now.

    Now -- as to the rest?  Zymox is dynamite stuff -- particularly for allergy ears.  It comes in two forms for the deep ear 'drops' -- it's an enzyme so it literally kind of eats the junk and leaves the ears nice.  The "green" label is just plain Zymox.  The "blue" label has a tiny bit of steroid in it so if the ear is inflamed and painful, it's a good addition.

    BUT it won't treat infection.  You *must* get that diagnosed **FIRST** (once you start cleaning and putting in "drops" then the ear has to sit untreated for several days before you CAN do a C&S)

    Zymox makes a cleaner -- it's not my favorite.

    The 'blue stuff' that most everyone uses has chlor-hexiderm in it.  I won't use it for several reasons.

    First -- dogs (and humans like me) can be viciously allergic to it -- it can provoke a huge red **sore** inflammation in the ear or on the skin.  I can't stand it to touch *my* skin so I don't use it on the dogs.  Muffin was fiercely allergic to it and would **scream** if it was put in his ears (Thank you Nasty Vet #2)

    Second -- my regular vet (not the holistic vet) always urges extreme caution with chlor-hexaderm because IF IF IF there is any problem with the structural integrity of the ear drum, the chlor-hexaderm can transfer beyond the ear drum and deafen the dog.  There would be some hearling loss if the ear drum wasn't 100% ok (occasionally it will rupture or get 'hurt' somehow and then heal over). 

    So -- my favorite go-to is still the Blue Power Ear Solution -- homemade yes -- but safe?  Extremely.  Soothing?  TOTALLY.  IN fact, I use it on my *own* ears.  I've had bad ears since I was a kid and the tiniest bit of water can be horrible -- now I put it on a Q-tip but I wouldn't do that with a dog.

    The advantage of it is that messy as it is, it removes the wax and build-up in the ear without having to probe, rub, use cotton or gauze.  You shake and squirt it in the ear, fold down the ear flap and massage deeply for a full minute (literally massage the cartilage and all around the base of the ear to get it deep).  I generally squirt it in one ear, close the flap and squirt in the other ear then massage both at the same time.  Then I stand back and let them shake their head.  that slings out the 'yuck' and it's done.

    When we got Billy his ears were already swollen shut -- we thot he'd have to have an ear ablation in each ear.  We didn't.  I actually got his ears in pristine shape in about 3 weeks.  But that was AFTER we determined with a C&S that there WAS bacteria and we did a 10 day course of Baytril (Momentamax is probably better now but wasn't around then) ear drops AND Baytril oral.  Once that was done I did 2 weeks of the Blue Power and Dr. Bailey LOVED how his ears looked.  He actually now gives out that recipe to clients because it works so well.

    The boric acid soothes and reduced inflammation.  The alcohol disinfects.  The gentian violet kills fungus and bacteria.  The alcohol **does NOT hurt** because of the boric acid.  I can tell you that absolutely -- because I have used it on myself when my ears were really darned sore.  It's just plain relief.

    This is the recipe as I give it out.  Boric Acid you can usually find in a 'real' pharmacy -- or ask your grocery store pharmacy to order it (about $5-$6 a bottle).  Gentian Violet -- you ONLY need the 1% (about $3 for the 1 oz bottle).  ASK the pharmacist -- they'll love to sell you the 2% but it's four times the price.  Ask for the 1%. Alcohol?  Use the cheap stuff $.89 a bottle.  All pharmacy items.

    BLUE POWER EAR SOLUTION (from the old AOL cocker board)

    The Blue Power Ear Solution was first circulated on the AOL Cocker Spaniel Board.   This is a home-made recipe and if all you are dealing with is yeast ear infections it will really help them.  I gave it to my vets and they refer it all the time.  It's actually safer than the purply/blue stuff that the vet sells you and it's way cheaper because once you have this you can keep making new batches of it.  I often take bottles to folks I know do rescue. 

    DOWNSIDE - this stuff stains.  You ***Must*** put it in their ears outside so they can shake and not stain everything because gentian violet is just like ink!!! (however, plain rubbing alcohol WILL cut the stain and you can wipe it off skin and coat iwth alcohol)

     16 oz. bottle isoprophyl alcohol (just a cheap bottle)4 tablespoons boric acid (use human boric acid - it's not a dog thing)17 drops gentian violet (1 or 2% , but the 1% is MUCH cheaper and is fine)medicine dropper to use to measure the gentian violet Add the boric acid and gentian violet to the alcohol (Yep, it will all fit in that brand new bottle of alcohol -- surprising but true).  Shake well.   Transfer some into a squirt bottle (an old shampoo bottle or a hair dye bottle -- anything with a squirt top on it).  The boric acid never dissolves til it hits the skin so you have to shake constantly.  The boric acid soothes.  The gentian violet deals with the yeast.  It STAINS.  So do it outside, not in your kitchen!  Even 15 drops of this in a whole bottle of alcohol *does* stain.  But it sure works. Gentian violet is the stuff that they give human babies with "thrush" (oral yeast infection).   If the ear is inflamed use this twice a day for 2 weeks -- just squirt in and massage behind the ear.  The first day don't worry about massaging, but thereafter massage for a minute EACH EAR.  Yes, I'm serious -- COUNT.  They'll discover this does NOT hurt, but rather it soothes, and after you are done massaging, they will shake their head violently and all sorts of yuck and junk will fling out.  THAT IS GOOD.  After 2 weeks of twice a day, then do a week at least of once a day, then just put it on maintenance once a week.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Once you get the ear infections TREATED, then absolutely what everyone is saying about food allergies, etc is TRUE.  They can often create ear problems.  But so can atopic allergies -- you could tell what page of the calendar you were on with both Muffin and Billy by their allergies (ears and otherwise).

    But please don't just try to do food alone.  Ear infections hurt more than most humans know -- and bacterial ones are THE WORST.  Yeasty infections cause head-shaking and are miserable.  but BActerial infections cause deep horrible pain -- and often these dogs LIVE with them and have for years.  When we look back at pictures of Muffin AFTER his ear ablation surgery you wouldn't think it was the same dog.  He CAME to us with ear infections and we never knew how much pain he had been in until AFTER the ears were gone. 

    That's why I make such a big frigging deal out of the culture and sensitivity -- it is SO worth it to find out exactly what you're dealing with so you can TREAT it successfully.  And I can promise you 99.99% of owners don't even *know* that you can ask for one!!

    • Gold Top Dog

    I also use the Blue Power Ear Solution.  Have been for several years with great results.  It isn't recommended if there's damage to the drum though.  I also wouldn't fear using liquid solutions for recurring problems cause usually these are the ones that are deeper in the ear and can only be treated with somehting that can penetrate deeper.  I've used the drops lots of time but very seldom did it work for recurring infections..

    I also agree with getting the C&S to find an appropriate drug to use.

    Sending good thoughts out to the little cocker!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Johnny&Tessy
    It isn't recommended if there's damage to the drum though. 

    Almost anything can go beyond the ear drum -- that's ALWAYS a huge consideration but honestly most vets never LOOK that deep which is another good reason for the C&S

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    calliecritturs
    Almost anything can go beyond the ear drum -- that's ALWAYS a huge consideration but honestly most vets never LOOK that deep which is another good reason for the C&S

     

      Really? My vet always uses a cone to look deep into Jessie's ear canal so I thought all vets did.

    • Gold Top Dog

    jessies_mom

    calliecritturs
    Almost anything can go beyond the ear drum -- that's ALWAYS a huge consideration but honestly most vets never LOOK that deep which is another good reason for the C&S

     

      Really? My vet always uses a cone to look deep into Jessie's ear canal so I thought all vets did.

    They SHOULD - but they don't.  Simply because some dogs don't like it and it can get them bitten.  The ear canal "bends" about an inch inside the head -- and they have to get in far enough to tilt the ear canal so they can see "around the bend" and if that's at all sore it can be difficult (the very first time Dr. Bailey met Billy, Billy SNARLED at him which is the only time I ever heard him get nasty!!)

    Some vets will INSIST on sedating a dog to do a C&S because of this (if they aren't confident they can handle the dog and get a swab that deep without losing fingers they'll demand to sedate the dog -- and a lot of vets won't TRY - they'll just say they must sedate.

     That can be off-putting to people so vets just don't suggest it.  Hence me always preaching about ASKING FOR a Culture & Sensitivity!  Glad you raised that issue!!!!!

    • Gold Top Dog
    Check my thread about Cleo's spay Jen. They did some deep examining of her ears and packed them with an ointment. Vet said he's had great results with it...and it can be done on a monthly basis if need be. I will let you know our personal outcome with it when it comes out so you have more info. But what I could find online (new treatment)....is positive as long as the stuff STAYS in the ear LOL.
    • Gold Top Dog

     Callie, the blue power ear treatment is what I was thinking of, but I couldn't remember what that was called.

    I know them from a meetup group (it's a dog  group). This person is actually the one who runs our group (very obviously not just some idiot). They are looking for another vet, seeing as their vet obviously has no solution to this.