Telling the difference between Demo and Sarcops

A skin scraping is the only surefire way to tell the difference.

Most scabies dogs have thickened skin on their ear edges, & elbows, as well as other hair loss throughout their bodies.  They are usually very itchy, & can have raw areas from self inflicted trauma.

Demodex dogs are, generally, not very itchy.  Their hair loss looks different.  In less extreme cases, their coats look almost moth eaten.

The **first** thing I'll tell you is that a dog CAN have **both**.  More often than you'd think.  (Both thrive in a dog with low immunity, and sarcops are opportunists and if a dog's already weakened immune system has allowed sarcops to proliferate then it's even more attractive to sarcops b/c the body won't defend itself.)

Some dogs can itch pretty fiercely with demodex (because they are almost "allergic" to what the mites leave behind in the skin pores), but **generally** the itch from sarcops is literally mind-numbing.  It's constant, and it's **all over** the body.  As Amanda said, dogs with sarcops have often itched for SO long that they've literally made part of their skin almost calloused and thick -- broken off hair in large sections of the body from scratching.

With demodex the skin moves towards infection *far* faster -- because the reaction in the skin pores/hair follicles where the mites are makes fertile ground for staph skin infection -- very often the areas where the demodex is active may look "wet" and sticky ... hence the Southern name "Red Mange" (from the red, infected sticky skin).

 That leads to another difference -- but this one is NOT nearly as "easy" nor as reliable.  **TYPICALLY** demodex is a puppy thing -- generally 19 months and under (that 6 - 9 month marker when sexual maturation happens is often a big trigger for demodex).  An older, mature dog *can* have demodex but that's sad -- it's a signal then that there's something else wrong. 

But sarcops can hit at ANY age at all -- you'll see young dogs with it, old dogs with it -- any and all.

but for ME the most surefire way to tell the difference is SMELL -- Demodex has a really funky, sickish-sweet "ewww THIS DOG needs a BATH **now**!!" smell.  Sarcops don't really have a smell altho the dog may have yeast or simply be filthy dirty.  But particularly in generalized demodex (all over the body) or demodex that's advanced enough to infect the skin you will **SMELL** it ugh ... so quick. 

DON"T bury your nose in their fur -- but rub your fingers on the hairless spot and sniff your fingers -- demodex tends to be a bit oily because the mites live in the hair follicles and skin pores.

I'll also say -- a LOT of shelters (particularly the animal control type) will euthanize a dog with sarcops upon entry. 

A cheap bottle of Paramite Dip (it's about $8 at Tractor Supply) can treat -- if someone would do it.  They DO need to be quarantined from other dogs which is why they tend to PTS

Callie, how about pointing folks to one of your first pictures of little Tinkerbell?

Nevermind, I found the picture I was thinking about.

Her picture is way worse than how most demodex/sarcops dogs look when they come into a shelter.  But Janet's right - it actually does show some good examples.

Now Tink actually had *both* Demodex and sarcops when it started out.  (And this isn't the worst of the pics actually *sigh*)

But it's the demodex that typically gives rise to the big infections -- demodex mites live & feed in the hair follicles and skin pores.  They don't "bite" the dog.  They eat skin oil.  But anything that eats ... poops, right?  It's actually the allergic-type reaction that the dog has to the mites' poop that causes the infection to blow out.  

Amanda's description above of the "Moth eaten appearance" is a good one -- because typically it starts on the face -- and actually the mites just plain kick the hair out of the follicles.  Typically you'll see it start in small hairless (often with flakey skin at first) patches on the face. 

But look down on the front of her shoulder -- see how there is some hair but you can see thru it and it's ... "moth eaten" is a good description?  THAT isn't demodex -- that's sarcops and contact allergy.  Those flat pink 'bumps' across her chest - that's Contact allergy.  The tiny pustules that are sarcops eggs are much tinier.  There was *some* demodex there but not much.   Most of that was all irritated skin from contact allergy and the sarcops.

She'd been put outside because she was stinky -- St. Augustine sod is all over the South but it contains a couple of fierce contact allergens so you get a dog whose skin is *already* sore and the contact allergy exacerbates it.

NOW Tink can go lie in the grass and it doesn't bother her. 

 The hair-loss in sarcops is "broken" hair because the dog breaks the hair in the process of scratching. But all the hair in an area doesn't 'fall out' -- it simply gets scratched thin and broken

One of the fun things about going to get Tink was that David and I got to stop and have lunch with Janet on our way thru!!

This was a couple of weeks later after antibiotics.  But again you can see here on the skull there are still bumps -- *those* are demodex.  But look back down on the chest area -- see those big huge flat pink spots are gone but see how sparse the coat is down there all over (her whole body was like that). 

Shoot -- that makes me realize one more thing -- Beejou -- a demodex dog's skin is HOT .... blazing hot.  Sarcops doesn't make hot skin like that -- but as long as the demodex is active you've got staph skin infection simmering in those skin pores.  The skin doesn't cool off until you actually get the demodex to resolve.

I totally forgot above to mention how hot demodex skin feels to the touch.

calliecritturs

One of the fun things about going to get Tink was that David and I got to stop and have lunch with Janet on our way thru!!

I enjoyed the visit, too!  I was lucky that you guys didn't realize that Dallas was actually out of your way. 

Gina's right -- sarcops dogs will literally scratch in their sleep or wake up TO scratch but itching typically dominates their thoughts. 

Gina also made an excellent point about ringworm.  Ringworm is NOT an insect/mite nor a "worm" -- it's a fungus.  Again a moth-eaten appearance but very typically on the tips of the ears, tips of the back toes, or tip of the tail -- ringworm also doesn't cause huge itching usually but VERY CONTAGIOUS to people.

Dog's don't get the little red rings like we do -- but the hair loss originates in a 'ring' but one overlays another so you just get this raggedy edge to the hairloss.

All very good info, thanks guys! I do consider all dogs at the shelter to be harboring something nasty (we have a max of 200 per dog, most testing and vetting isn't done until someone puts in an adoption ap) and we've got a lot of kennel cough that goes around. By law strays cannot be PTS unless in seriously bad condition, so contagious dogs are kept out back in outdoor runs :( I am not allowed to see them. I digress,

The dogs with mange don't seem to itch any more than the rest of them with fleas. The picture of Tink is so sad, I can't believe it! We have a pittie that has that look on his back and feet. I can't imagine it all over. We have a little pup who has been there longer than I have who is almost all white, pink skin, blue eyes,and his coat is looking BAD. Starting to get the "bumpy" appearance with the tufts falling out. I think he's starting demo. Is ther anything I can do for him to help? Bathsor something ? I just wanted to be sure it wasn't dead on for Sarcops. I am going to ask if I can post a little sign on the demodex dogs cages with some info about the illness and not to be scared. I think people get freaked out by it.

Beejou

picture of Tink is so sad, I can't believe it! We have a pittie that has that look on his back and feet. I can't imagine it all over.

bottom of the back and hind-quarters feet -- that's probably NOT demodex -- it's probably flea allergy dermatitis.  That always gets super scabby looking and nasty.  One bite -- literally ONE -- can produce skin that looks like that.  It's an allergy to the flea's *spit* (so the adopter should be cautioned not to use something systemic like Revolution nor Comfortis nor BioSpot because those mean the flea has to *bite* the dog TO kill the flea, and on a dog like that you want something like Advantage where the flea gets killed by contact.).

Beejou

Starting to get the "bumpy" appearance with the tufts falling out. I think he's starting demo. Is ther anything I can do for him to help? Bathsor something ?

Email me and I'll send you my article.  Bathing in benzoyl peroxide will help gi-nor-mous-LY ...altho the immune system has to be helped to kick in as well, but the bathing will help the appearance.  I don't mind if you give it out but it is a LOT of work.  Not expensive but *work* which some folks don't want to do.  You can get Pan Oxyl's new facial wash (4%) at Publix (you might have to order it - ask them) really makes it easy and WAY cheaper than the stuff at the vets.

The little guy with the flea allergy dermatitis?  Bathe him in Selsun Blue - red top - don't leave it on llong, but it will help heal the staph - but he probably needs a steroid shot from the vet to help resolve that when someone adopts him.

People DO get freaked out when an animal looks kinda 'bad' right at the shelter.  some folks like me want to "help" - others just get queasy and walk by.  It's human nature.

 One test for scabies is the thump test. In this test, the ears of the dog are rubbed together. If the hind leg "thumps" up and down, the dog is considered to have tested positive for dog scabies.  I'm not sure what mechanism is at work to cause this, and the test is only suggestive. In terms of demodex, it may appear similar to dog mange or scabies, but does not have one key characteristic itch.  Demodex also tends to be localized to the muzzle.