Are there any breeders in this forum?

This forum tends to have more pet and working dog owners than breeders yes. There are a few around tho, myself included. If you want a more nuts n bolts forum I would suggest the dogzonline one which is based in your country. I believe you need to pass a membership screen of some type to join/post...esp in the Breeding sections, but I also understand it is very informative and breeder friendly.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/

Thanks for the reply.  I've done DOL for years.  Was hoping to find something in the US . . .  I've moved from Australia to California and am need to better understand the local scene.

There is a Labrador ListServ...are you also on that? I would imagine it's Int'l but there seem to be lots of US members on most ListServ deals.

"To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU with the command SUBSCRIBE LABRADOR-L" This is from the ListServ's page online.

Most of the breeder lists and forums are sub only and invite only. It is a somewhat hostile place for breeders these days, in the US...and it pays to be careful about revealing too much in public (IMO), even if it is well meant or out of pride. Sad but true. Most breeds and regions have their lists...and that is where you'll find them. Go to some shows or join a local dog club and you will probably be able to find a good one to discuss the more breeder bent topics.

rwbeagles

It is a somewhat hostile place for breeders these days

It's really too bad that the bad breeders give all breeders a black eye.  The good breeders tend to hide out because they don't want to get any backlash and that tends to perpetuate the problem because all the general public hears about are the puppy mills and crappy breeders.  Just my two cents worth or in Cali, my ten cents worth. lol

That's so sad. Breeders, especially quality breeders, should not have to go underground!!!!!  If you love puppies, and hate puppy mills, you're left with back yard and more specialized and deliberate (eg, pedigree, in the loose sense) breeders.  Sure, there are lots of dogs being pts in shelters/rescue.  I'd guess that very few of them are carefully bred dogs, and a high fraction are oops pups from accidental matings or people who breed indiscriminatelywith no appreciation of genetics, bloodlines, breed standards, health testing, etc. . . . and secondary fraction are the puppy farm --> pet shop/internet sales, premium price crowd.

With DOL (the main Australian Pedigree Dog Forum) I was forever getting upset about breed snobbism and intolerance of X-breeds or outcrossing/backcrossing, be it for health reasons or for developing specific working traits.  I hate puppy factory/farms, like all good people, but holy-moly, pedigree dogs are deep in our psyche.  You get one clear image when someone says bulldog, another when they say poodle (with further distinction between standard, miniature and toy, another when they say pug or fox terrier.  Many pet buyers, say nothing of working dog owners, want to be able to predict what they'll get when they buy a pup.  If pedigree breeders aren't respected, and quality pedigree breeders aren't respected for taking advantage of health tests, temperament tests, etc. to breed improved representatives of their breed, we're going to loose hundreds of years of work breeding predictable, quality lines.

I gather the negative contingent is the fringe of the animal rights community.  Is there any strike-back organization to make fun of these destructive loonies?  

There are a great many well bred purebreds on line in this country.  Sadly, this often comes down to the breeder not following through, not screening carefully enough, and not offering a life time home to the pups they place.  I worked with a gsd rescue that pulled dogs from the shelters and we had a huge demand for our "kids", but an extremely tough screening process.  And, that is as it should be.

ETA...I am a former breeder as well.

Hi ,

As the last poster pointed out this is more of a pets and their owners type of forum with many people working with a variety of Rescues so as a general rule there are very few breeders on line here.

My husband and I have been in and bred Ridgebacks for over 30 years.  I want to commend you for wanting to learn as much as you can before breeding.  Most Breeds in America have their own forums on line. I've been a member of RR Folk for over 2 decades.  So I would suggest you begin by finding a Laborador forum which would allow you to have access to breed specific information.  I would also try to find one in Australia to assure you have your finger on the local pulse so to speak.  Googling the breed/country would help you to locate the forums you are interested in. If you have a Facebook account that also helps to locate other Labbie enthusiasts to help guide you to the best on line information available.

We require at least one if not both of the dogs in any breeding be a Champion in AKC Conformation and that they have other titles as well to show they are not losing the basic skills the breed was engineered for. So our RRs have Herding, hunting and often lure coursing or other preformance titles. All of them have certified in CGC ( Canine Good Citizen) and most of them are Working Therapy dogs.  This helps us to be sure that we are never breeding from a kennel blind position,  breeding a dog just because we are very fond of that dog. Instead we have the opinions of others trained to observe and offer solid, experienced perspectives.  The Judges are educated in the movement of the breed and how the dog's structure affects that movement.  A dog too straight or over angulated would not be good breeding stock for a breed that must be able to work along side you all day long.  However an inexperienced eye can easily miss something as simple as the length of the upper arm or the angles to the back legs creating ineffective reach and drive.  So again the Titles are not for show to hang on your wall, they are actually a functional testing tool to help establish the dogs being used in your programs.

In Ridgebacks we health test for Cardiac, Thyroid, CERF the eyes, OFA ( Penn Hipp in Australia) the Hips, Elbows and Knees.  Our kennel also does the ATTS test which is the American Temperament Testing to certify the dogs pass under a stranger's evaluation of their response to a variety of stimuli.  I am not familiar enough with Labs to tell you what health testing would be required, and that is where your National Breed club can come in very handy! They will have a Code of Ethics and often Mentors who can help you learn about the health and testing needs of your breed. They can also get you up to date on a variety of things , legislation, vaccines that are required in your area among others.

When you bred before how did you find your Studs? What do you know about selecting  a male to compliment your female? Do you have a list of questions drawn up to ask the stud's owners? What kind of requirements are you looking for in a stud?  What do you know about the lines  in your area ?   Are you planning on a Natural Cover or an Insemination? Why do you even wish to breed?  Do you have a contract drawn up for the puppies? Will the pups have papers or not? Have you thought out your responsibilities for these puppies?  What kind of guarantee you will offering?  When you look in your local paper and then in say a larger city's want ads how many ads represent the breed you are planning to breed yourself? How many litters of this breed can you find on say Craig's list in your general area. what is the average prices being asked for the puppies and what are these breeders offering ?  How will you find the homes for the pups you plan on having? What happens if you can not place all the pups in a timely fashion ? What happens if you have 5 homes and 14 puppies? Can you afford to feed that many for months? What happens if one of the pups has a defect requiring sugery? Will you be able to afford it? What if Momma has an infection and loses her milk, will you have the time and money to bottle feed a litter every 4 hours?

Last but not least I do NOT advocate breeding for most people.  There must be a reason from breeding aside from hoping to make some money. Frankly if you are doing it correctly there is very little money made when breeding dogs. The risks involved in breeding your beloved girl are big. So you need to have a clear cut understanding of the risks both financial and to your girl. You indicated you have bred before so you will be aware of the problems, from an unexpected C Section, to having to spay her due to post whelping complications.  The expenses of the litter it's self.  from whelping a healthy litter to one that has problems.  The latest information on how long to keep puppies, what kind of training should be expected by the new owners before puppy ever comes home to them.  The current thinking about vaccines and diets.  Before we ever bred our first litter we made it a point to make friends with people who could mentor us, then we began researching everything that we should know about all the points I have mentioned in this note.  We went into the litter with eyes wide open. Ready to deal with anything that came our way.  I firmly believe because we were so prepared we have been successful as breeders.  We have a waiting list with people who have been on it for as long as 3 years.  Our pups are wanted for both the ring and the home allowing us to select carefully who will be the best possible home for our pups. It is a big and important choice to make, will you be one of the people who sell puppies at a swap meet or from the back seat of their car ? Or will you be someone who makes a difference in your breed by being incredibly selective and concerned about how your actions affect it?

If you have already thought out all of the above then you will not be offended by my asking the questions in my reply to you. If you have not thought them out then you have a great deal of work ahead of you before finding a stud becomes important.  Each breeder must decide early whether they are part of the Breed's history or a problem the breed doesn't need.

I do wish you the best and would happily discuss any of the topics raised in this post with you.  Ethical Breeders  have an obligation to help out new comers by asking them the hard questions and being willing to chat with them.  To allow someone to possibly go into a litter blind because we are busy or ? is in my book unforgivable. Even if you bred many years ago things are constantly changing and there is much to think about and decide before your girl ever has her date with Mr. Right.

Bonita of Bwana Kennel

I'm still in culture shock, so please understand that this may reflect geographical differences.

In Western Australia I found (a) screening is hard but most of the people who wanted Labrador pups had had one, if not several generations, of Labs and could display that they would be responsible owners (tests: some income, fenced yard, either land owners or renters with a secure contract of someone to fill in in case of rental difficulties); (b) taking a risk on first-time dog owners can be rewarding . . . high frequency of buyers coming back and wanting a second dog and commenting about what a difference the pup made in their lives; (c) divorce, forced lifestyle change due to health or unemployment (I had one case where the wife was murdered) do occasionally result in dogs needing new homes; and (d) if you make a mistake and are insistent that YOU WANT TO KNOW if there are problems, and YOU WILL TAKE THE PUP BACK, your score card is unlikely to show a big zero in terms of pups who end out as dogs in shelters/rescue.

 Long post and lots of questions to answer . . . apologies if I don't hit all points.  No, I'm not offended.  These are reasonable things to ask.  I'm beginning to realize that I had it good in Australia, and am trying to figure out whether it's just too hard to do ethical/responsible breeding in the US.   The maze is more complicated because I have English line dogs, and some of the healthiest looking and geographically closest Labbies in the US are of lankier types with quite different conformation. I HATE Facebook, but have overcome prejudices in the past.  If it's the only way through the maze . . . so be it.

Take that back.  I am a bit insulted by the insinuation of selling at swap meet or from back of car.  I have a science PhD and tend to regard a lot of the 'latest' diet and vaccination opinion as fads and find a lot of breeders don't understand basic genetics.  But I think most educated breeders are in a similar position.  Often the hard science doesn't supply enough information (yet) and is distorted by the agendas of the drug and dog food companies who fund the research.  We have to make best guesses and keep reading and observing.

In Australia I bred for health, temperament, and conformation in that order.  Temperament would be first if it were easier to specify.  Hyperactive, non-biddable, or aggressive dogs are OUT. . . but with Labbies, there's a wide range of acceptable behaviours: from affectionate couch potatoes and athletic companions to working retrievers and guide dogs.   I kept two or three bitches and chose dogs carefully.   I started with a good bitch, and I hope, after six generations, that the bitch I have kept is considerably better than the one I started out with.  I worked with a group of breeders who lived within a ~20 mile radius.  The local showgrounds was a few miles distant, and it was easy for me to identify and select dogs.  I did a lot of AI, and used studs from across the continent and as far as New Zealand (~7000 miles, frozen semen).  Health testing was taken for granted, although the nearest location for doppler heart work was 3000 miles away and hard to schedule, so that test was skipped.  I found that show breeders were producing some dogs with unacceptable temperament, and that chocolates had a hard time in conformation shows due to, among other things, prejudice against sun-bleaching (no way am I going to raise a dog under shadecloth to do well in show).  The traditional working Lab is nonexistent due to outlawing of most bird hunting.

Whether I made or lost money depends on how you count costs and which litter you speak of: could go either way.  But personally, I think that's irrelevant.  The deciding factor is whether the next generation is an improvement on the previous generation.  I do not begrudge anyone who manages to earn something like minimum wage for decades of work spent caring for and breeding carefully selected dogs. 

 You may want to check with forums specifically for labs, hunting forums, or retriever forums.  They frequently have discussions about breeding, trialing, and health of dogs.

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