UTI, or something else?

    • Gold Top Dog

    UTI, or something else?

    Bailey is leaking. It started about a month ago (that I noticed). One day, we got back from a walk and he had gotten a drink then layed down on his bed, and maybe 10-15 minutes later, he peed. He didn't seem to realize that he was doing it, and looked shocked once he noticed it.  I figured he just drank too much, and was tired from the walk... So I didn't really think anything of it at the time.
    But now... it has gotten much more frequent, he is leaking every day. He doesn't walk around dribbling urine, it only happens when he is laying down and hasn't peed recently. It's never just a few drips, it's usually a puddle. It seems like he just can't hold it in? He is not straining to pee, or going more frequently. He is not drinking any more than usual (he rarely drinks, he gets water added to his meals).

     He went to the vet 2 weeks ago, (friday June 17th), and he was put on Baytril for an infected anal gland. We went back to the vet last week (friday June 24th) for a recheck, and there was a little improvement in the anal gland so the vet said we should continue Baytril for another week. I mentioned the leaking, and since he is on antibiotics anyways we are going to wait a week and see if that makes a difference with the leaking, and do a urinalysis next friday (going back to the vet on July 1st).

    He has been on Baytril since the 17th (10 days so far, and he has 7 more days of meds left). The antibiotics have made no difference in the leaking, (his anal glands are getting much better, though). He is leaking consistantly every day (usually at night). I have been trying to manage it, until we figure out what it is, by feeding him earlier and bringing him out to pee later at night. It helps, he leaks less if I try to keep his bladder as empty as possible before bed, but by the morning, his bed has wet spots again.

    Any ideas why this is happening? If it is a UTI, shouldn't the med's have taken effect by now?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Could this have started with the infected anal gland?

    What caused you to realize about the infected anal glad (yeah, they could be connected). 

    He's altered, right?

    It's tough to know until you get the urinalysis -- but if he's already on Baytril that should have helped a UTI by now (altho it all depends on what the bacteria is but Baytril is pretty broad spectrum for most anything. 

    Have his sleeping habits changed?  does he seem to be sleeping deeper, or in a different place or ??? anything??  The fact that it is *always* while asleep is odd --

     And just to double-check -- you're sure no one else is filling up the bowl (since it's summer I've seen the time here that we've both been filling the bowl unknowing that the other was too) -- so quiz everyone -- that could be critical.  I mean, even tho he's not a drinker -- you do, I'd assume, have water down for him??

    But the urinalysis will show the specific gravity/whether he's concentrating his urine. 

    He's not showing any sign that his back hurts or anything??

    • Gold Top Dog

    calliecritturs

    Could this have started with the infected anal gland?

    What caused you to realize about the infected anal glad (yeah, they could be connected). 

    He was scooting, and licking his rear a lot. I expressed him, and neither gland was full but one (the left) was painful. The vet expressed him again when I brought him in, and there was blood and pus coming out. 

    He had an issue with the same anal gland last year, and he needed to be expressed. Vet said it wasn't infected then, but impacted.

    I can't remember exactly when I started noticing his anal glands bothering him, so I can't say for sure whether it started at the same time or not.

     

    calliecritturs
      

    He's altered, right?

    Yes, he was neutered at aprox 3 years old.

     

    calliecritturs

    Have his sleeping habits changed?  does he seem to be sleeping deeper, or in a different place or ??? anything??  The fact that it is *always* while asleep is odd --

    Nope, nothing has changed. It is not ONLY when he is sleeping. Just mainly when he is laying down. I have never seen him walking around and dripping urine at all. It has only happened when he is laying down, and he will pee where he is laying (without knowing). He acts shocked when he notices it, like "Did I do that?".
    If I bring him out often (every couple hours durring the day) he doesn't leak, but at night when it has been a couple hours since his last potty walk, that is when it happens.

    calliecritturs

     And just to double-check -- you're sure no one else is filling up the bowl (since it's summer I've seen the time here that we've both been filling the bowl unknowing that the other was too) -- so quiz everyone -- that could be critical.  I mean, even tho he's not a drinker -- you do, I'd assume, have water down for him??



    Yes, even tho he hardly ever drinks, he always has water available. I am the only one who fills the bowl.
    He is fed 2x a day, and gets water added in both meals.


    calliecritturs

    He's not showing any sign that his back hurts or anything??

    No, I haven't noticed anything.

    • Gold Top Dog

     I'm wondering if he might have a urolith...

    • Gold Top Dog

    spiritdogs

     I'm wondering if he might have a urolith...

    But doesn't that usually cause painful/difficult urination?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Urinalysis came back negative. No signs of infection, or crystals.

    The vet reccomended I try him on Proin, and see if that helps. Anyone have experience using it?

    • Gold Top Dog

    No -- it's kinda hard on the liver so I'd use milk thistle along with it.  You can just get some milk thistle capsules (you can get them at Wally World I think even) -- give a couple twice a day while you give the proin and it will mitigate any damage/problems while you evaluate the drug.

    Isn't this *always* while he's sleeping?  That would say 'neural' to me. 

    I honestly don't even know Proin well enough to know 'how' it does what it does so I looked it up in my PIll Book Guide to Medication for your Dog and Cat -- VERY Interesting!! 

     Yep -- "neural" is only the start -- I'll type it from the book for you (I can't remember -- do you have one?):

     " Other names of phenylpropanolamine:

    Proin; Dexatrim; Propagest

    Alpha-adrenergic agonist and sympathetic nervous system stimulant.

    Prescribed for:

    Incontinence because of decreased urethral sphincter tone.

    General Information:  Phenylpropanolamine (PPA) is also called norephedrine.  It mimics epinephrine (adrenaline), a neurotransmitter of a branch of the central nervous system called the sympathetic or adrenergic branch.  Receptors are located in all parts of the body, therefore, PPA has the potential to affect many systems and functions, which accounts for both its desired effects and unwanted side effects.

    The primary use of PPA in veterinary medicine is to incrase muscle tone in the urethra and prevent urinary incontinence caused by urine leaking out of the bladder.  Urinary incontinence is caused by decreased tone in the sphincter muscle of the urethra, which is the tube that carries urine out of the bladder during urination.

    PPA is an effective nasal decongestant and appetite supppressant in people, but it is not useful for these purposes in dogs and cats.

    PPA may be used illegally to produce methamphetamine.  Because of this purchase of large quantities is strictly controlled.

    Catuions and Warnings:

    USE PPA with caution in animals with glaucoma, enlarged prostate, hyperthyroidism, idabetes melitis, heart problems, or high blood pressure.

    (skipping part here -- it's a controlled substance tho)

    Possible Side Effects:

    Side effects in dogs and cats are uncommon and generally mild when they occur.  The most common side effect is restlessness

    Rare: Increased heart rate, increased blood pressure, vasoconstruction, and loss of appetite.

    Drug Interactions:

    (skipping part)

    PPA should not be given within two weeks of treatment iwth MAOI Inhibitors such as amitraz (See Amitraz) ++

     (Callie note: Skipping ssome -- most of what I've skipped has to do with heart reactions -- you will need to be **very** aware of the signs of high blood pressure/hypertension/hyperthyroid - those can all go together but are *rare* pretty much)

    ++ Amitraz is in other stuff like ProMeris and other tick collar formulas

    Special Inforamtion:

    Development of urinary incontinence due to decreased sphincter muscle tone is associated with a number of risk factors.  It is more likely to occur in dogs than cats, in females than males, and in spayed females than intact ones.  Large and giant breeds have a higher risk than smaller breeds.  Old English Sheepdogs, rottweilers, doberman pinschers, weimaraners, and Irish setters have a higher incidence and labrador retrievers have a relatively low risk. Obese animals and those with bob or docked tails may also be prone to incontinence.  The problem is seen most frequently when an affected animal is tired, relaxed or sleeping."

    Pill Book Guide to Medication for Your Dog and Cat - Dell Reference (pub. 1998, paperback 2009)

    I hope this helps you -- I've just never had to use it.  If Bailey can cope with the side effects you should be ok with some milk thistle (that can be really cheap when you get it in bulk as a powder rather than the capsules IF this works for him).  But from what it said about tail docking, etc. I'd have to wonder if something got "pinched" or damaged or something when he had that anal gland infection.

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog
    I think Jennie_C_D does?
    • Gold Top Dog

    Good memory, Meg -- and Jennie has always really liked "Leaks No More" -- and she could tell you where she gets it.  Less side effects by far.  And probably cheaper.