Bloat Study (Cautions included!)

Whoa, I thought raised food dishes were to help prevent bloat in breeds like Danes and wolfhounds??? 

Yep, that was the consensus for several years, but apparently it's not good after all.  I feed my dogs raw in their crates so they get quiet time before and after eating. ..... with bloat you just cannot be too careful.  It's terrifying to think of how fast it can happen.

I had read several years ago that raised bowls had been associated with bloat and I'm pretty sure I posted that info on this forum.  Thanks for sharing this Lani.  Owning two deep chested mixed breeds, bloat is at the top of my list of things to be concerned about.  The citric acid with water info is very interesting.  I need to check my dog food label because I always float my pigs, er dogs, dry food.

I live in constant fear of bloat.  I think it's like the number 2 killer of GSDs.  By the time the dog is in real distress, it's often too late.  There are new bloat stories almost daily on the GSD boards.  I strongly believe there is some genetic component but like hip dysplasia, it's not as simple as yes this dog will get it and no this dog won't.  I've heard of dogs bloating on dry food, wet food, raw, raised bowls, non raised bowls, food with water, food without water, meal too soon before or after exercise, meal nowhere near exercise, 1 meal a day, 4 tiny meals a day.  You name it, dogs/GSDs have bloated.  I just watch my dogs like a hawk and prefer to hear them belch after a larger meal.  When it's nice out, I feed them like chickens (we call it "free range dogs";) where I scatter kibble all over the lawn so they can't scarf their meals.  I've always been told water and soaking is good/OK (as long as the food is not high in citric acid).  When it's not literally freezing out, I don't add water to the food but have a bucket outside and let them drink at will.  When it is freezing, I do pour some water in the bowl with the food (I don't pre-soak the food) b/c the water bowls freeze over.  If I feed a meal (2 cups or more), I kinda wait around and usually the dogs will each give a burp and I'm satisfied.  Weird/gross, but when you have all deep chested dogs the burp is like music!

Can someone explain what deep chested is to me ??

Deb W.

iluvjamison

Can someone explain what deep chested is to me ??

Belle has a deep chest as you can see in this photo.  Beagles do not.  Deep chested dogs have a distinct vee shape to their chests.

Thanks, Jackie !!

Deb W.

I've never heard of floating dog food, but when I was into champion Koi and Ranchu I ALWAYS floated so they would not ingest too much air or overeat and then have the food expand. Is this done for the same reason with dogs?

Beejou

I've never heard of floating dog food, but when I was into champion Koi and Ranchu I ALWAYS floated so they would not ingest too much air or overeat and then have the food expand. Is this done for the same reason with dogs?

Yes, it's based on the same theory concerning excess air intake contributing to stomach twisting which can be quickly fatal.  As Liesje said, there is no definitive answer to why some dogs bloat.   Sometimes it just happens despite all precautions.  :(

 I wish it were easy to figure out, too... I definitely agree there is a lot more to it being genetic than there is to any other "cause".  A dog that's going to bloat is going to bloat regardless of where you put it's food bowls.  I think being mindful of things that seem to be triggers never hurts, however. 

 I've heard, and I have no idea how valid this is, that depth of chest to a really high tuck up is more prone as is a very deep chested dog that is narrow in overall body width.  I know in my breed that there tend to be a lot of narrow dogs.... and though the standard asks for a "moderate" tuck-up, often times that is a subjective term.  We can see dogs with a ton of tuck-up at any given show/event.  Anyway, there seems to be a higher incident in the more extreme tuck-up as well as the narrow dogs.  Not to say a dog with no tuck up cannot bloat/torsion, but something to watch for. 

 The only thing I do 100% of the time is rest an hour prior to feeding and 90 minutes after eating before they get exercise.

 Bloat is terrifying and until they have some solid answers all you can do is minimize the risk and pray.  

 Question to you guys, speaking about bloat being genetic, have you noticed dogs that have bloated continuing to be used in breeding programs in your breeds?  Either dogs that have died from it (being used via frozen semen) or animals that pulled through?  Or are they generally culled, if so, do they continue to use first degree family members?

iluvjamison

Can someone explain what deep chested is to me ??

I don't know the official definition, but GSDs for example generally have a chest that drops to the elbow (lower than that is considered too low).  The chest is also narrow.  GSDs also have pretty visible tucks.  Triple whammy. :(

Lani, good question about breeding.  It gets brought up from time to time on GSD boards.  I think the hardest thing is that often a dog will bloat after it has already been bred, sometimes multiple times.  And unfortunately, it seems like half the time, it is fatal so the dog is naturally "culled" so to speak.  For example, one of the most well known and frequently used GSDs of all time recently died fairly young of cancer.  No one saw it coming but this dog literally has over a thousand registered progeny and already has some highly used progeny.  Ooops.....

I think if we avoided all dogs that have bloated or produced bloat we'd narrow our gene pool such that we're causing more harm than good (since unfortunately bloat is only one of many devastating health conditions that plague the breed).

Very true, a lot of dogs die of things after producing litters.  That stud dog that produced thousands of puppies?  What do you think of that?  Sounds like "popular stud dog" syndrome, that always worries me, in a few generations he'll end up in everyone's pedigrees.  This always makes me cringe, in my breed there is a dog that was highly (let's call it it) "linebred" and he gave our dogs several of the health problems we are still dealing with, because he was so widely used you cannot get away from him in pretty much any pedigree.

Regarding bloat, I would hesitate using a dog that died/survived bloat.  .... or progeny/get of that dog.  I think any dog can probably produce it, because it's probably polygenic and has to do with how the dogs conformation is arranged, much like hip dysplasia or bite issues.  But, using a dog that has bloated is more than I'm willing to do, as a dog geneticist told me; If you use a dog that died of bloat at 5, you've probably just cut your average lifespan in your line in half. 

I was wondering what the prevailing thoughts on this subject was in other breeds prone to this disorder.  Because, you can take another deep chested breed, such as the Pointer.... and they really don't have bloat to speak of in them, it *must* have a genetic component.

T-Bone's breeder pulls a dog who bloats and survives out of her breeding line and spays/neuters, and places into a pet home. She also isn't a breeder of dogs who's close relatives have bloated or had other genetic defects. When I purchased T-Bone one of her claims to fame is the fact she has a VERY low instance of producing bloaters. One of T-Bone's siblings had some sort of problem with an intestinal prolapse..  it IS genetic and usually fatal, but his owners opted to keep him and repair it by having a length of his intestine removed. He is doing fine today :) T-Bone's parents will never be bred together again, but bred to other dogs they have never created the problem. They just can't have their lines crossed apparently (I am not good with technical terms, sorry!) If it ever shows again, the dog will be altered and retired.

T-Bone is a super narrow dog... he could disappear behind a lightpole if he stood next to it head on. That with being purebred GSD makes me really worry for him. Small meals and prayers!