Glucosamine for chronic limp?

I don't think it can hurt, though I'm not sure how to dose it.  I know many sport people that keep GSDs on similar regimens even without already having bad joints or an injury.  In the case of Nikon's problem, it won't really make a difference but I may still start eventually just because of how active he is and how many sports he does, there may be other wear and tear later on where it would help.

A few things might help --

Glucosamine and chondroitin are both supplements -- chondroitin is a bit more of the anti-inflammatory but both are essentially going to hydrate connective tissue (the cartilage that is there) - literally it plumps up that cartilage so it cushions better.

That works pretty well -- some even like to use it as a preventive measure -- as long as there IS sufficient cartilage there to "plump up".  The other thing is - if you stop using it, it stops helping.  It's not a pain reliever -- it simply cushions better so there is less rubbing of bone on bone (which is part of arthritis -- only the bone itself actually becomes inflamed).

However -- you might want to also consider something like Knox NutraJoint -- it's another supplement -- mostly it's bovine cartilage and calcium and some minerals.  It essentially puts the "stuff" (the building blocks) at the body's disposal so it can *re-build* cartilage that has worn away (which often happens when there has been damage).

I've used Knox NutraJOint on ME and on the dogs for several years (and several different dogs) with extremely good success.  It's not a tempoary fix -- but rather it helps actually re-build cartilage.

Knox NutraJoint website -- Now they also have a product that has both Knox NutraJoint AND glucosamine/chondroitin in it -- and truly I've never used it.  The NutraJoint alone has always worked really well for me (and it's not at all expensive).

It takes 2-3 months for NutraJoint to reach maximum effectiveness -- because there is a re-building process going on, not just temporary avoidance of pain. 

However -- in honesty, before you do a lot of stuff like this, you truly should   consult a vet who can specifically address this problem.

And I really don't mean a "regular" vet.  In my experience, TCVM (Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine) -- with the use of acupuncture and herbals -- is INCREDIBLE to help this sort of problem.

This is *not* instead of going to a regular vet, but rather it's a compliment to it.  If you want to let me know the zip code of where you're going to be here in FL I can probably connect you with a good vet.  The Chi Institute headquarters is in Reddick (up near Gainesville) and we're really fortunate here to have some awesome TCVM vets in the whole state.

Acupuncture is particularly good for several things -- it's incredible for pain management (which is how I, personally, got connected to it -- and it was a vet who steered ME towards acupuncture for my own arthritis).  But it's also superior for healing -- even an old injury that has not quite healed properly can benefit in a big way from acupuncture.

It does not hurt at all -- in fact, if you go to the video section on the board you will see a video I put up of Billy getting needled by Dr. DiNatale - it's just a typical session and it's pretty obvious he's not in any distress (other than hoping for Tom the Tech to come by and give him more treats?? Except that happens AFTER the session *grin*).

The exam that a TCVM vet gives is completely unlike anything else -- yes, they'll look at x-rays or anything else you care to bring, but that's not their primary diagnostic tool.  They put their hands all over the body -- feeling for heat, resistance, and how the blood courses thru the body to identify areas of injury or sluggishness. 

Dr. Roger Clemmons, up at the University of FL is known all over the world for his work with GSDs (particularly with DM).  He's the head neuro-surgeon at the University -- and he also teaches at the Chi Institute.  They actually teach acupuncture (and herbology) at the Vet School -- but he's found ways to use it in neuro cases that are amazing to see. 

http://www.tcvm.com -- there's a locator on the left.  Because I've had several dogs up to Gainesville for treatment (and because I know Dr. Clemmons and Dr. Xie and several ot the other vets on the faculty) I'm glad to help you find someone if you want.  Not every holisitic vet is a "good" one.  But finding a good one isn't as diffficult as you might think.

Let me know if I can help.  But honestly -- before you try a ton of supplements, getting a good diagnosis to begin with so you can address the particular sore point would be the best place to start. 

I know Amanda's vet does a LOT with acupuncture with Bevo (and with her other dogs) if you want to check it out with others.  But holler if you're interested.  And good luck!

I'm not trying to sound rude or bitchy, so I apologize in advance if this comes out that way.  That really isn't my intent.

Before starting him on anything, he needs to be diagnosed.  It's very difficult to try to treat something when you don't know what you're dealing with.  And, in the process of starting supplements, you may actually mask a serious issue that needs to be dealt with.  There is no reason that he should still be limping this long after the accident, unless there is something wrong.

I use a number of different supplements on both Bevo & Brutus.  We also utilize acupuncture.  I have been thrilled with the acupuncture results.  Even with gold bead implants, Bev still gets wobbly from time to time.  I can take him in, stumbling, & an hour later, he walks out of the clinic as normal as can be.  Brutus has very bad spinal arthritis.  It is so bad that the majority of his vertebrae are fused together by the arthritic changes.  Without acupuncture, he cannot navigate the stairs.  He can't get up on the couch, & he can barely stand up on his own.  With acupuncture treatments every three weeks, he can get around pain free, & relatively easily.  (We still carry him up the stairs, & lift him on to the couch, so that he doesn't have to overwork himself, but he can do it himself if need be.)

Thanks guys, and Amanda, you don't sound bitchy at all. I've been concerned that this is still going on, though my vet assures me it's going to keep healing and will be okay. You and Callie are right.... he needs a solid diagnosis. I'm going to seek a second opinion from a different vet. Now the decision is, wait until I get to Florida (early October) or try to find a second vet HERE - which doesn't seem practical because I won't be able to keep bringing T-Bone to him/her. Thoughts?

I do trust my vet and he's been worth his weight in gold (though he did write me a super rude letter after T-Bone was hit... I guess I deserved it) but something does seem wrong. Should he see a normal companion animal vet first, then move on from there or start with a surgery center that is skilled in looking for joint damage or TCVM or....? I've never dealt with this kind of issue.

Where was he hit?  Do you have x-rays?

Nikon's kind of in the same boat.  He's limped for as long as I can remember.  He's having a new set of x-rays taken (by a different radiologist) on Sunday.  Nikon will probably always have his limp.

Personally if he were mine my first step would be x-rays.  You can see breaks, arthritis, and other problems and it's not that expensive.  In Nikon's case, if I'd gone straight to acupuncture or chiro it would have been a waste of time and money.  Especially with a dog that has had a traumatic event that caused the problem, I guess I would want to see x-rays before anything else.

Liesje,

When I rushed him in, I assumed he'd get X-rays, but the vet said no need. He touched, felt, stretched everything... looked for shock, checked his heart, vision, etc. and said if something were actually damaged he'd be having a lot more trouble. (Crying, in shock, something) Granted this was a friday evening and he WAS trying to leave town - I actually called his cell and caught him as he was leaving with his family to Seattle. I refuse to believe he would overlook my dog, though, because of a trip he was trying to take. He's a good person. I asked if I should take him somewhere else for Xrays or bring him back for Xrays the upcoming Monday, and he said there wasn't a need for them. If something were broken, dislocated, etc. he would be able to feel it. Since there's nothing out of place, it has to be soft tissue damage that either will or won't heal on its own. That's what I gathered, anyway. I don't know why he'd feed me B.S., but it does seem high time to get a second opinion. (I was really shocked when I got my almost 400 dollar emergency visit bill - not by the price, but by the letter inside with it. "If you'd neutered your dog, he wouldn't have been in the road to begin with." which really wasn't why he crossed, but... anyway)

So first things first - find out exactly what we're up against, and then explore treatment routes. Seems I'm getting the cart before the horse.

He was struck in the front right shoulder

Beejou

If something were broken, dislocated, etc. he would be able to feel it. Since there's nothing out of place, it has to be soft tissue damage that either will or won't heal on its own.

This sort of a strange statement for a vet.  If he could always "feel" an injury, why ever do x-rays? 

I would be wondering about a crack in a bone or a small bone chip.  I cracked a bone in my foot and the doctor needed x-rays to tell the difference between a crack and a bad sprain. 

Beejou

"If you'd neutered your dog, he wouldn't have been in the road to begin with." which really wasn't why he crossed, but... anyway

I wonder how he explains the fact that a lot of neutered dogs get hit by cars?  Definitely not a very professional letter IMO. 

If he had said "less likely to be in the road", he would be right.  However, neutering does nothing to lessen prey drive!! 

He definitely wasn't acting like himself the last time we saw him... and the letter really shocked me. We've been his client since T-Bone was 7 1/2 weeks, he knows us and knows T is well taken care of and well loved. He's usually very gentle and I had a hard time thinking he really wrote that... but on the flipside, he loves T-Bone too and has the right to be upset I let what happened, happen. He really drove it home how easily T-Bone could have lurched forward when he was it, into and under the wheels, instead of backward, away from the tire. He probably would have been killed or suffered much worse injuries. I guess he's very disappointed in my ownership.

 He doesn't seem to think he requires X-rays because if he did, he'd be much worse off. Whatever is wrong with him is mild and should go away. I'm going to get them done anyway.

If you do x-rays I would go to a vet school rather than having them done just by a 'regular' vet -- as Amanda says, yOU DO need a good diagnosis.  When you go in, tell them you will need COPIES TO KEEP of the x=rays (that can be done) so you can bring them with you.

October isn't that far away and honestly if you are anywhere close to Gainesville I'd be telling you to go see Dr. Clemmons.  The man knows shepherds like nobody else and their ortho team is incredible (and it would get you in at the Chi Institute at the same time).  In fact, I'd tell you to email the Chi Institute and see when they are doing an acupuncture clinic on "injuries" and you might get lucky and get him seen for nothing at Reddick.

U of So Fl is NOT the same -- not at all alternatively friendly.  There are good acupuncturists down there but not out of UF at Miami.

You are almost IN October -- so making an appt for when you first get here wouldn't be a bad thing.  Like I said -- holler if you want and I will find someone good for you (cos all I gotta do is call Dr. DiNatale and she'll tell me where to tell you to go if Gainesville is too far).

But I would surely plan on x-rays first, but it needs to be done by someone GOOD so you really find out what you need to.  If you go up where you are now, just make sure the x-rays can travel with you -- x-rays are actually "owned" by the vet usually.

I would probably wait until getting to Florida.  IMO, it will be easier to find a vet, & have them deal with the case from start to finish instead of having to try to transfer records, x-rays, & such.

After reading your other responses, I will bluntly tell you that, imo, your vet was neglectful in his initial care of T-Bone.  If a dog is hit by a car, a x-ray of the chest should be part of the clinic's standard operating procedure.  Some chest injuries are not obvious, & can be deadly in a very short period of time.  X-rays of the shoulder/leg should have also been taken at the time of the injury.  A fracture, dislocation, or bone chip is something that should be discovered & dealt with quickly.  The longer that it's put off, the worse the prognosis for return to function is.  Once you get a definitive diagnosis, if something was missed, you need to, imo, report the other vet to their state board of veterinary medical examiners.  I understand that he was in a hurry to go out of town for the weekend, but if he wasn't prepared to fully evaluate, diagnose, & treat T-Bone, he should have referred you to an e-clinic, instead of doing a half-hearted job.  You should include the letter that your vet sent you in your complaint.  It was unprofessional, & wildly inappropriate.  If you need help, PM me & I will happily help you.

janet_rose

Beejou

If something were broken, dislocated, etc. he would be able to feel it. Since there's nothing out of place, it has to be soft tissue damage that either will or won't heal on its own.

This sort of a strange statement for a vet.  If he could always "feel" an injury, why ever do x-rays?

Exactly!  My thought when I read that was, "oooo, can this vet *feel* hip dysplasia? If so he could make a fortune *snort*"

The x-ray is so easy, and it's not like he pays for it, you do!  Nikon just turned two and is about to have his third set of x-rays and he's not been injured or hit by a car.  With the large breeds prone to many medical conditions you just have to make sure everything is in order at certain points in their lives.