Allergies? Or Worse?

Around the mouth sure looks like allergies to me.  Either food, or maybe contact allergies.  Do you have a new lawn by chance?  What are you feeding?  It is absolutely amazing what a change in food can do.....

That poor baby Aside from pollen and food allergies has Rowdy had and chemical or drug treatments prior to this episode?How old is he?Has he ever had anything like this before?

Tena

The head swelling and the huge lymph nodes make me think auto-immune.  Allergies could set it off.

Cheryl -- it's *very* likely that something like prednisone is the proper treatment at this stage.  But I would ASK specifically if they think this has an auto-immune component.

Questions for you:

1.  How long since this dog has had any vaccines?  (days, weeks, months?  could be any of those)

2.  Can you give some history -- when did the lesions around the mouth start?  Any history of allergies?  How old is the dog?  Spayed/neutered?  Health history?

3.  Can you tell me exactly what the dog is taking *now*?  And what meds specifically is the dog taking now?

4.  Food could be a big consideration -- but think beyond that -- Have you recently done any construction?  landscaping? Pesticides outside?  Big changes?  What flea/tick stuff do you use?

Bless your heart -- yeah, I've seen similar stuff -- but I've also seen it be somthing simple too -- but such a severe allergic/inflammation response is NOT typical

5.  What bloodwork has been done?  ASK FOR A COPY (start a file--- you could need it later on).

am at work -- I really can't type more now but I will be glad to help.  I'm still fishing for information but yeah, I've seen similar and so far it looks like the vet's taking the right steps.

Rowdy is 10 years old.  He is neutered.  He is 50% Golden Retriever, and 50% German Shepherd. 

A few years ago, we went through some severe diarrhea/vomiting; we did a food change and he was fine. Other than that, he has been as healthy as a horse.

We started this episode 8 days ago.  When I left for work that morning, he had a teary eye.  Twelve hours later, one eye was swollen and they were both inflamed with blister-like lesions on the underside of his eyelids; we also discovered that his chin had the blisters.  Vet #1 gave us antibiotic cream for the eyes, Panalog for the chin, and because he was due for shots -- immunized him on that day.  I'm thinking that was a HUGE mistake but I didn't know any better.  :(

Went to the ER that night as he began to have difficulty breathing.  Now, the blisters were worse and his lymph nodes were huge.  They did a full blood panel and everything was perfectly normal!  Vet #2 started us on Benadryl and made us an appt. to see a specialist the next day.

Vet #3 (specialist) said he thought it was cancer due to the enlarged lymph nodes.  They did 3 biopsies -- muzzle, eye, and lymph node.  Two have come back negative for cancer; the third (muzzle) will be back today or tomorrow but now the Vet doesn't think it is cancer.  He sent us home next day with Tamalog (pain meds) and an antibiotic.  24 hours later, his muzzle and entire head began to swell and they added steroids (Prednisone) to the mix.

The swelling has gone down (head mostly, but lymph nodes are some improved) but the blisters aren't getting any better.  They are very itchy and he keeps rubbing his chin back and forth on the floor.

I have wracked my brain asking myself what's different?  We moved about 2 months ago -- same city, different house.  Same bedding, same food.  The neighbor recently sprayed Roundup on a hedge that borders our yard, but the Vet said it wouldn't cause these symptoms.  Other than that, the only thing I can come up with is that he managed to get the filter out of the cat's litterbox and gave it a good chewing.  (The package says it is safe and non-toxic.) 

I changed out the plastic food bowls for stainless last night and started giving him filtered water.  Tonight, I am starting him on a diet of boiled hamburger and rice.

I don't know what else to do!  I have called a vet allergist/dermatologist but can't get him in until late next week.

I have a lab with severe allergies and the picture of the chin and muzzle are identical to what she looked like at her worst. It takes a long time for that to all clear up, so try to be patient. It sounds like you're doing the right thing with the process of elimination. Don't be surprised if you're never really sure what caused this flare-up. I use benadryl daily and unless you've been told otherwise, you might consider it too. My lab weighs 70-75 lbs and I give her 75mg in the AM and PM. When she was at her worst, I gave her 100mg and if one of us was home that day, we gave it to her mid-day too. When she had her first major flare-up, her lymph nodes swelled up too, so it's upsetting (to me) that the dr. jumped to the conclusion that it was cancer. That's a scary thing to hear and I'm sorry you had to worry needlessly. If things don't continue to improve, you can PM me and I'll be glad to share what I did that worked and didn't work. There are a lot of people on this forum with a ton of great advice and experience too.

 I gave my Italian Greyhound a Rimadyl, a few months ago, and her head did that, but worse. It was oozy, and she lost a lot of color. The color still has not returned. She had two shots of dex, and a course of prednisone, and no more Rimadyl, EVER, LOL. Fortunately, we knew what caused it.

My Parson Russell did that a couple of years ago, when a friend was moving. She stopped breathing. The vet suspected that she'd caught some sort of spider, because of the immediate severity of the reaction. Same thing. Shot of dex, course of prednisone, and she was fine.

I hope you can figure out what's wrong with your handsome boy, soon.  Is the Prednisone at least helping him??

Yes, his head is back to normal size, and the lymph nodes are somewhat smaller.  He is wagging his tail again, but still seems to feel pretty awful.

 He improved immediately after the first dose, but now his conditions seems to be unchanged from day to day... no better, no worse.

Pemphigus?

German shepherds are listed as one of the breeds prone to pemphigus erythematosus.

Myra

Pemphigus?

German shepherds are listed as one of the breeds prone to pemphigus erythematosus.

That is one of the things they tested my lab for. Thankfully, she was negative.

CherylDee

He is wagging his tail again, but still seems to feel pretty awful.

If he's on pred it can make them feel generally 'ick', not to mention those bumps all over his face! Poor buddy! I don't have ideas, but hopefully some of the people on here can get you going in a good direction.

CherylDee

Anybody see anything like this before? 

My first thoughts would have been spider, bee sting, or snake bite on the muzzle or in the nose. 

Any vet that would vaccinate a dog this sick would get a strong lecture from me.  If fact my first reaction would probably have been "Are you out of your mind?"  Not very tactful I admit, but I would have been shocked and disappointed in my vet.

Vaccines are an assault on the immune system so adding them to an existing health problem (especially one that was likely to be immune-related) should go against a vet's medical training.  A doctor's or a vet's first line of thinking should be "Do no harm". 

Whether it is me or a pet, medical needles stay away until I get a full explanation.  Almost got a shot of penicillin from my regular GP once - with penicillin allergy on my chart, so I don't give absolute trust to anyone. 

Man -- what Janet said.  NO WAY would I have let them give shots (you'll find a LOT of information on here on the dangers vaccination can present -- a dog that's mature does NOT NOT NOT need annual vaccines.  I'm not suprised at all that it caused this sort of reaction.

spiders, in particular, can do nasty things -- their bite isn't like a 'sting' -- it injects a toxin that can literally rot the flesh away.  A brown spider bite actually can require antibiotics to get better.

I'd honestly be shopping for a new vet -- a dog that presents as "ill" should NEVER be vax'd that day -- that's truly horrible. 

Now honestly -- I would suggest you find a vet who might be a little more alternative in approach.  Simply because a lot of "regular" allopathic vets are going to vaccinate first and not question later ... it's the way they've been trained and many of their practices depend on them.

If you want some help finding a vet who might be more open to less vaccines and a more user-friendly kind of treatment give me a shout via email.  I'd be glad to help you.

calliecritturs

a dog that presents as "ill" should NEVER be vax'd that day

This is one of the most valuable things I have ever learned on this board.It galls me that any vet would take that "As long as you're here what else can I sell ya?" angle

An allergic reaction can be triggered by many different things While I only ever owned one allergy dog [grass/pollen] I myself have gotten nasty hives that lasted weeks from antibiotics,skunk spray and even stress.I sure wouldn't rule out the roundup as a stressor,especially If Rowdy was munching on his grass at any point.My heart goes out to your dog.I hope he gets better soon.

                                            Tena

Just heard from Vet #3 regarding the last biopsy... NO CANCER.  I may WHOOP for joy!  No bacterial infection, either... just lots and lots of inflammation. 

So maybe allergies after all?  I started him on boiled hamburger and brown rice last night, and boy was he happy about that!  After reading that the science brand food is junk, I couldn't even think of continuing him on that.

He has a call into the pathologist to get more info, and has also emailed  a vet who specializes in dermatology to ask some questions. 

I really appreciate everyone's comments and well-wishes.  It means more than you know...   

I would also love to know more about (not) immunizing a mature dog (?)