questions about bloat and bloat prevention

Bevo has bloated twice.  The first time required surgery to correct it.  After he recovered from that surgery, he had a gastropexy in an attmept to keep the stomach from twisting.  The second time didn't require surgery, as the stomach didn't twist, but he did have to be decompressed. 

Research is all over the place about raised feeders.  All of our dogs, except for Cher, who lays down while eating, eat from raised feeders.  Both times Bevo bloated, he was eating off of the floor.  Did this make the difference?  Who knows.

When we fed kibble, I did add water.  Bev isn't a big drinker, so it was an easy way to get him to drink more.  I don't feel like the addition of water caused him to bloat though. 

Our rule is that everyone has to be completely cooled down before meal time.  We run in the mornings, & the dogs get their meals after they have stopped panting or breathing heavily.  It usually takes them 30-40 minutes to cool off.  After meals, they are kept calm for at least an hour.   The first time Bevo bloated was because I took him outside & played ball with him about 10 minutes after his dinner.  It was stupid on my part, & I was lucky that Bev lived because of it. 

 thanks Amanda I recall that you had mentioned before he had bloated and had gastroplexy.

Honestly for Bevo and for Bugsy the floor is a long way down to eat kibble.  

I always leave ample time before or after exercise for his food to settle.  

The water is a tough call for me.  He doesn't drink much at all - which is why I was adding a ton of water to his kibble.

And i can't imagine not having water out for him and whatever dog comes to play here ( he usually has a buddy here at least once a week for a couple of hours).  They do drink a lot then which I suppose is a bad time to let them drink so much. But they also need to cool off.

I am always trying to improve my knowledge and bloat has had me concerned since he was a pup and ate in 1 second flat.   His chest is soooooo deep.

Ive always been parinoid about bloat, & I will always take extra precautions to try to avoid it.

Bailey only eats raw, no kibbles, so a raised feeder really isnt an option. He doesnt eat from a bowl, he uses a towel. When he did eat kibble, he ate it from a raised feeder, with water mixed in (because he never drank a lot either).

I dont feed him right after any activity. I wait until he is calmed down and not panting hard anymore before I feed him. And absolutly NO activity at all until minimum 1 hour after eating, I usually wait 2 hours though.

 Tootsie eats out of a raised feeder so as not to put any undue stress on her neck and back.

Both my guys eat from raised feeders.  I also make sure they have cooled down completely before feeding and restrict activity for an hour after eating.  While my guys aren't really tall or deep-chested, I still want to make sure bloat doesn't become an issue.

One other thing, Lani posted on FB yesterday or the day before about not giving ice cubes or ice cold water in extreme heat to prevent bloat.  That's something I'd never have thought of.

Hi kpwlee. 

I've seen feeding bowls with raised knobs in them to keep dogs from bolting their food down so fast. They are supposed to be good for deep-chested, bloat-prone breeds.  It forces the dog to eat more slowly since they can't just open up and inhale a huge amount of food at once.  Maybe that could help.

Re the raised feeders:  I always fed my Dobermans and Greyhounds this way, but more because I had read it was better for their legs, back, etc., but now I've read the raised feeders might not be better than feeding at ground level.  Hard to know what the real answer is, but I still used raised feeders, except for my 13" Beagle; she's too close to the ground to need one! 

Sunburst

Dreaded bloat.... it has me terrified, too!!  A friend had a bloat scare the other night, just terrifying!  Her bitch is OK, but that's only because she was so alert.

As someone suggested, brake-fast bowls are a good option.  I'd definitely soak kibble, maybe give it 15-20 min after adding the water to actually feed, I'd stick with the water in it.  I think the problem with water and kibble is that it swells in the stomach, so if you have it swell prior to feeding it may reduce the risk, that's the thought as I understand it anyway (I feed raw)

I would not use raised feeders and my dogs need to be relaxed and have had no exercise an hour before nor do they get any an hour after eating.  But, I don't know that this helps other than to make me feel like I'm doing something.  Stress, I hear, is the biggest contributor to bloat. A dog at a high level of anxiety is way more likely to bloat, a panicking dog, barking, swallowing air, etc.  I know some people whose dogs bloated after eating a lot of grass.... so, really it can be anything, I think some dogs are just more prone to it genetically speaking.

I keep gas-x at home and in my car just in case try to keep the dogs calm before and after eating and limit water after a lot of exercise and keep them relaxed as possible, in general.

If you are really worried you could have a gastropexy done, which helps prevent the torsion, it won't prevent bloat, but it can help if they do.  I know some vets are recommending at time of spay/neuter having a preventative gastropexy done.  

 It's very scary -- I feel your concern, right there with ya!

I had a horse bloat on me once years ago after overeating freshly cut pasturegrass.  Scary, very scary thing.  I could not get him up for anything...vet had to come out to me.  Luckily, no surgery was required that time....but ever since its something I think about.

My biggest concern with the dogs is to ensure they get rested and cooled down completely after hard exercise before meals.  And, they rest for at least 1/2 hour (longer if its super hot) after meals before exercising.

Heidi always eats very slowly; but the boyz do eat fast, and doing the above keeps me from being overly concerned.  I recently started feeding Buddy on a raised dish, but my reason was due to his positioning and his joints.

Anytime they are overheated from running or exercising, ice shouldn't be offerred....but if its a hot day and they are rested....its ok to give them ice.

Cleo picks at her food, thruout the day...she is a slow methodical eater that really has never bolted ANYTHING down...even treats.

My personal opinion, unscientific be darned...is that temperament plays a big part. Nervous, nervy, hyper alert, worried, guardy, anxious, dogs are more prone...no matter what they eat or how, than phlegmatic, couldn't care less types. I have no science as I say...just anecdotal. This'd be in addition to the main risk factors like size and build of course.

I do watch Cleo because she is a worrier...but her lack of interest in eating quickly is helpful.

She eats from a raised dish not so much because of HER, but because she lives with smaller dogs that would inhale her food immediately upon finding it. The raised bowl (and it's only slightly raised) gives me the extra time I need to holler..."HEY! THAT IS NOT YOURS YOU FAT LITTLE HOUND"..before it's gone. LOL!

Here's the thing about wetting the kibble before feeding it - some kibble is made differently than others (baked vs extruded, etc, etc) so some won't swell up much bigger than the original size.  Others could amaze you.  Take some kibble and let it sit in a bowl of water and see just how much YOUR kibble expands.  (I watched Science Diet blow up like a balloon when I moved in w/my sister.)  I'm not sure why you'd consider not wetting the food as a preventative for bloat.  You're expanding it in the bowl before the dog eats to where he feels full,... then the food continues to expand inside his stomach.  So, if you think by NOT wetting the food, and allowing it to expand in the stomach...?  Doesn't really "solve" the problem.

That being said, I absolutely DO NOT let any dog in my care tank up on water in one "sitting" - and it's NEVER cold.  It's air temperature /tepid and if someone gets a good gobble in, then I take the bowl away for several minutes to watch their demeanor (and hopefully get a good burp OUT)

I have witnessed bloat about 7 times now in the rescue.  All dogs were fed from a bowl on the ground.  One was a dog who was de-barked who would "whisper" constantly - and thus grab air and couldn't be effectively quieted.  He was fed raw.  One was a mix who had a giant body and was a barker after meals - he was fed kibble.  Another ate raw and was older and she hid it pretty darned well (up behind her ribs) - she was the one that I missed the signs.  One was an active dancy girl, but I don't think she was a particular barker, stress-monkey, and I can't recall if she ate raw or kibble.  Another was a stress monkey in a crate - kibble-fed.  Those are the ones I can recall off the top of my head.  The other I found dead I didn't really know - no idea what he ate, what his activity level was like, etc.

The rule at the rescue was no activity for the hour before meals, and 2 hours after a meal.  I adhere to that rule for Gracie, because bloat is a daily fear for me.  As became clear from my experiences at the rescue, "activity" absolutely includes getting excited/aggitated or barking, even if the dog isn't running around. 

Our feeder has always been raised - even made my ex build Gracie one when I lived w/him.

rwbeagles

My personal opinion, unscientific be darned...is that temperament plays a big part. Nervous, nervy, hyper alert, worried, guardy, anxious, dogs are more prone...no matter what they eat or how, than phlegmatic, couldn't care less types. I have no science as I say...just anecdotal. This'd be in addition to the main risk factors like size and build of course.

The expansion thing has always made me wonder.

Maybe some of our medical types could weigh in. I was under the impression that there is no "water" in your stomach...but ACID...this acid's (using a simple term I know since there's a lot of "stuff" in said substance)...main job is not to be "absorbed" but to break down...am I right?

It is an active, even aggressive, process...as we all can feel when we eat something very spicy or not overly digestible like "corn" lol. This process does not to me seem at all similar to putting a kibble into an innocouous gentle substance like water, and assuming the exact same thing happens in a stomach?

Now if your stomach either thru genetics, allergies, or sickness or whatever is not producing enough acid, or the muscle tone is not such that it can perform the kind of machinations and move along processes it should, or antibodies (like if you ate something you were allergic to) get in there and start a riot...

Most stomach contents I have seen, in vomit...seem soup like and softened...but not really any BIGGER than it was going in? Graphic I know, sorry.

I'd be really interested in a medical viewpoint on this...what exactly IS happening inside a stomach...is the acid like water in that it doesn't do much aside from soak in and bloat the food or does it attack the food and break it down and make it smaller?

 I've seen some very swollen kibbles when we've had to tube a dog's stomach. Though in that case, even allowing for swelling, the dog had to have eaten about 6+ cups in a sitting. It was an unbelievable amount of food.

 I do not soak Aesop's kibbles. There's no way he'd touch soggy food. He won't even eat his food if I put canned food or, god forbid, yogurt on it. I do feed from a raised feeder. I always fed Legend from one and he did great for 13 years..so we're continuing with Aesop. Goose will eat from one once she's larger.

All of my Chows have been very slow eaters and neither are into running as a general rule..so not too concerned at that aspect.  They both like water, but don't gulp or drink excessive amounts. 

I'm going to offer a perspective that could be wrong, but since scientists don't even know what really causes bloat, I don't have the ability to find complete answers... SO, here goes:

You have two different actions going.  The water that the dog consumes WILL expand some foods, once its inside the stomach.  Think of every time you've seen a dog yack up after eating too fast... or eating and running...  The kibble I see IS expanded, and hasn't been broken down by the stomach acids.  The issue becomes- if your dog typically tanks up some water after they eat a meal (mine typically washes her meal down with a solid drink of water), then you're adding water into the contents and with many foods, you will cause an expansion of the food pretty quickly.  Add in the expansion of gas, which happens VERY rapidly... bad combo.

Expanded food takes up more space in the stomach (simple enough).  Now, how quickly does acid break down a food, *particularly* if the concentration of acid is changed by the addition of water?  Water might not have much of an effect, I don't know. 

I also think there's a difference between what happens in the stomach, and what happens in the gut/intestines. 

A cup of food that expands to almost 2 cups with the water leaves less room for the expansion of gas that is trapped in the stomach.  If, instead, the food is already fully expanded before it gets into the stomach, then the dog will feel the point of satiety because his stomach is full.  Add the water after the fact, and it's not just sloshing around.

All that being said, I don't wet Gracie's food.  She does have a canned topper, but she rejects her food if it's softened/wet.

Here, for some interesting reading about the ways fats and proteins are processed by dogs - mostly revolves around meat, hardly any mention of carbs.  Accuracy?: http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/carn_herb_comparison2.html