Buddy's vet visit - CoBuHe

    • Gold Top Dog

    Buddy's vet visit - CoBuHe

    Buddy had a vet appt last Friday afternoon...but I didn't fast him for 24 hours.  Embarrassed  I was thinking he only needed about 8 hours between meals for them to get their numbers from the bloodwork.   So we went today.

    Everything looks good...especially his weight.  114 POUNDS!  That's a loss of 10 pounds in 6 months.  I couldn't be happier with that.  But, thats it...I don't want to go lower. 

    His thyroid number (T/4) was 1.6 which was lower than last time...2.6.  But the vet wasn't too concerned with that number as they do fluxuate and his weight has come down significantly.

    They checked out his liver and kydneys, and all is fine.  I worry about him being on Previcox for too much longer...he's been on it a while now.  I told the vet about Buddy's stumbling that I've seen over the last several months.  He thinks it might be spine related and we talked discs for a bit.   

    So, the vet really, really wants me to try Hills JD formula.  He's talked about the foods he sells; but he knows how I'm kind of a food snob.  Knowing this, he spent quite a while persuading me...so I did it.

    I brought home a small bag; just to make sure he would eat it.  What was I thinking...he's a Lab.  He'll eat it.  Big Smile

    If this food works to get him off the nSaids...well, I have to try it.

    He's happily knawing on a rawhyde bone at my feet now...informing the hooligans that its his...not theirs.  Smile

    • Gold Top Dog

     The J/D *really* works. I've used several RX diets in the last couple of years, and been ridiculously happy, after previously bad experiences. It's worth a shot. If he starts to look bad, you just switch him back, LOL.

    • Gold Top Dog

    YAY!!!  I'm glad that Buddy's visit went well!

    Like it or not, J/D works.  One of my best friends recently adopted an older dober girl who has hip dysplasia.  She immediately put Missy on J/D, and the difference in the way that she gets around is AMAZING.  It has worked very well for her for the last month or so, while she was getting worked up for a total hip replacement. 

    I would, without a doubt, put one of my guys on it if they needed it.  I'd much rather them be more comfortable on lesser quality ingredients, than to be uncomfortable on high quality ingredients.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Yahooooo Buddy boy!!! So happy the visit went well!

    • Gold Top Dog

    BEVOLASVEGAS
    I'd much rather them be more comfortable on lesser quality ingredients, than to be uncomfortable on high quality ingredients.

    Yes...exactly.  Gotta weigh the specific needs at any given time.  Glad to hear positive feedback on the Hills JD.  Makes me glad I am trying it for the old sweet boy.

    • Gold Top Dog

    CoBuHe
    His thyroid number (T/4) was 1.6 which was lower than last time...2.6.  But the vet wasn't too concerned with that number as they do fluxuate and his weight has come down significantly.

     

      Low thyroid can cause problems with a dog's rear legs, causing the rear feet to slip while walking. Of course I have no idea if his numbers are low enough to have that effect. Is it possible that he has a mild neuropathy; I remember another thread where you said he stumbles. Jessie has mild laryngeal paralysis (she'll be 12 in a few months). LP is often caused by a neuropathy and sometimes her rear feet slip a little while walking, which is another symptom.  I belong to a forum for owners of dogs with LP and have learned that veterinary neurologists recommend supplementation with Normal 0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} acetyl-L-carnitine, Coq10,  B vitamins, fish oil and vitamin E for the rear leg weakness that often accompanies LP. I have been doing this for about a year and her she is doing very good; her slight coordination problems haven't progressed.

    CoBuHe
    So, the vet really, really wants me to try Hills JD formula.  He's talked about the foods he sells; but he knows how I'm kind of a food snob.  Knowing this, he spent quite a while persuading me...so I did it.

     I really hope the JD helps him; good luck.

    • Moderators
    • Gold Top Dog

     Yea for Buddy's weight loss and good vet visit!  Such a good boy!

    I know nothing of Rx diets so can't comment but agree you feed what makes your dog feel the best

    jessies_mom
    Low thyroid can cause problems with a dog's rear legs, causing the rear feet to slip while walking.

    I have never heard that but am interested in hearing more - anything you can point my way?

    • Gold Top Dog
    • Gold Top Dog

    BEVOLASVEGAS
      I'd much rather them be more comfortable on lesser quality ingredients, than to be uncomfortable on high quality ingredients.

    Incredibly well said!!

    Barbara, I'm so glad the vet visit went well.  You might suggest sending the thyroid panel to Dr. Dodds or Michigan State -- sometimes just the complete "answer" it provides is astonishing -- either way you *know* without just guessing.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    I'm glad his weight is down and that his liver and kidneys were good.  I would do the same with the J/D.  Give it a try and see if he improves.  Give your lovely old boy some kisses from one of his biggest fans.  Smile

    • Gold Top Dog

    janet_rose
    Personally I would not be feeding a corn-based diet

    See, this has been my way of thinking over the last several years.  But, If there is merit to this food and my vet who I trust and knows me well enough to encourage it strongly...then I have to rethink.  I'll look at these links as I want to research more. 

    jessies_mom
    Low thyroid can cause problems with a dog's rear legs, causing the rear feet to slip while walking.

    I actually mentioned this very thing that I had also heard.  The vet's opinion (and thats all it is at this point without film) is that its more likely a spine issue.  Janice, can you repost that link on the supplement info...I'd like to check that out.

    • Gold Top Dog

    CoBuHe
    Janice, can you repost that link on the supplement info...I'd like to check that out.

     

      Normal 0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";}

    Neuromuscular Disease

    Carley J. Abramson

    The Ohio State University

    Columbus, OH, USA

    Complete diagnostic evaluation is essential to identify a specific cause of neuromuscular deficiency.

    Treatment should be tailored for the specific disease diagnosed. However, for non-specific neuromuscular diseases, trial supplementation with L-carnitine (50mg/kg BID), Coenzyme Q10(4mg/kg/day), and B-vitamins (100mg/day) have been recommended to support the nerve and muscle metabolic demands.

      

      Dr. Abramson is a veterinary neurologist at Ohio State University.

     

       This is a link to the LP forum;  http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/LP/   You can do a search about supplements without having to be a member. The information I gave about vitamin E and fish oil came from here.

     

      This is some information from PubMed concerning CoQ10 and neuropathies disorders;  Normal 0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";}

    Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) is an essential cofactor of the electron transport chain as well as an important antioxidant. Previous studies have suggested that it may exert therapeutic effects in patients with known mitochondrial disorders. We investigated whether it can exert neuroprotective effects in a variety of animal models. We have demonstrated that CoQ10 can protect against striatal lesions produced by both malonate and 3-nitropropionic acid. It also protects against MPTP toxicity in mice. It extended survival in a transgenic mouse model of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. We demonstrated that oral administration can increase plasma levels in patients with Parkinson's disease. Oral administration of CoQ10 significantly decreased elevated lactate levels in patients with Huntington's disease. These studies therefore raise the prospect that administration of CoQ10 may be useful for the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases.

    Normal 0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";}

     

    Mancuso M, Orsucci D, Volpi L, Calsolaro V, Siciliano G.

    Department of Neuroscience, Neurological Clinic, University of Pisa, Italy. mmancuso@inwind.it

    Abstract

    Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10, or ubiquinone) is an electron carrier of the mitochondrial respiratory chain (electron transport chain) with antioxidant properties. In view of the involvement of CoQ10 in oxidative phosphorylation and cellular antioxidant protection a deficiency in this quinone would be expected to contribute to disease pathophysiology by causing a failure in energy metabolism and antioxidant status. Indeed, a deficit in CoQ10 status has been determined in a number of neuromuscular and neurodegenerative disorders. Primary disorders of CoQ10 biosynthesis are potentially treatable conditions and therefore a high degree of clinical awareness about this condition is essential. A secondary loss of CoQ10 status following HMG-Coa reductase inhibitor (statins) treatment has be implicated in the pathophysiology of the myotoxicity associated with this pharmacotherapy. CoQ10 and its analogue, idebenone, have been widely used in the treatment of neurodegenerative and neuromuscular disorders. These compounds could potentially play a role in the treatment of mitochondrial disorders, Parkinson's disease, Huntington's disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, Friedreich's ataxia, and other conditions which have been linked to mitochondrial dysfunction.

     

       Normal 0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";}

     

     

     

      This study concerns L-carnitine and antioxidants, including vitamin E;

    Institute for Brain Aging & Dementia, Department of Neurology, University of California, Irvine, CA, USA. Elizabeth.head@uky.edu

    Dogs develop cognitive decline and a progressive accumulation of oxidative damage. In a previous longitudinal study, we demonstrated that aged dogs treated with either an antioxidant diet or with behavioral enrichment show cognitive improvement. The antioxidant diet included cellular antioxidants (vitamins E and C, fruits and vegetables) and mitochondrial cofactors (lipoic acid and carnitine). Behavioral enrichment consisted of physical exercise, social enrichment, and cognitive training. We hypothesized that the antioxidant treatment improved neuronal function through increased mitochondrial function. Thus, we measured reactive oxygen species (ROS) production and bioenergetics in mitochondria isolated from young, aged, and treated aged animals. Aged canine brain mitochondria show significant increases in ROS production and a reduction in NADH-linked respiration. Mitochondrial function (ROS and NADH-linked respiration) was improved selectively in aged dogs treated with an antioxidant diet. In contrast, behavioral enrichment had no effect on any mitochondrial parameters. These results suggest that an antioxidant diet improves cognition by maintaining mitochondrial homeostasis, which may be an independent molecular pathway not engaged by behavioral enrichment.

     

      All of the supplements I listed are safe as long as they aren't given in very large doses. B vitamins are water soluble and your dog will pass what he doesn't use. 


     
    • Gold Top Dog

    Thank you Jessie.  I also found this article on Neuromuscular issues in hypothyroid dogs; very interesting material I plan on sharing with the vet.  http://www.fecava.org/files/ejcap/684.pdf

    His initial thought about Buddy's stumbling was that it must be spinal related.  We started getting into the discussion about mylograms vs xrays when it comes to looking at disc issues.  He really dismissed the thought that Buddy's rear weakness could be related to the hypothyroidism.  I know he'll be interested in reading this.

    Buddy's tummy is accepting the J/D diet just fine...I am always fearful of upset stomach when introducing new food.  So far, so good.