Lab-9 years old house-trained and now peeing in house.

If this dog doesn't have a UTI then it's got some urinary/kidney problems. 
Almost everything you're saying are classic signs.

Peeing BLOOD?  good night -- that's a HUGE sign of a UTI.

If the vet is only taking the little strip test that is NO test.  You need to have a full urinalysis done AND, to be perfectly honest, you need to have a Senior Blood Panel run as well (because that will reveal kidney stuff and infection as well).  A dog can run a UTI for a long time and sometimes the humans just don't catch it.

 There can be other things wrong -- like crystals or stones (which can cause bleeding too) but which won't show up in a strip test. 

Sorry -- it makes me nuts when a vet does some little test and then says "probably behavior" -- a 9 year old dog doesn't just start wetting out of the clear blue sky -- but age can bring on a wealth of issues that are easily resolved but may need some help.

How much is she drinking?  Is the urine really dark and stinky or it is odorless and colorless (and she's probably drinking a LOT).

If she's drinking quite a bit does she come right in from outside and go drink?  Or do you have a hard time getting her TO drink.

Bladder pressure (where she squats and can't go) is VERY VERY painful.  Please have her see someone else.  The best of all worlds at this point would be to have them do a "sterile draw" (which is either a catheter or they withdraw urine directly from a kidney) -- why?  Because if it IS infection it's likely going to be tough to kill and a culture and sensitivity done on the urine will tell you exactly what bacteria it is and what antibiotic should be used to kill it.

I just want to ditto everything Callie said.  She is absolutely, stone cold right on this.

 Probably like 5-6 yrs ago Daisy started to pee in the house right away knew something had to be wrong come to found out she had kidney stones. sending good vibes

I have used black cohash for this if you find out nothing medical is wrong. My friend had 2 dobermans that were incontinent and this worked really well for her. You get it at the health food store and give as directed hope this helps Incontinence describes an inability to retain urine within the bladder. The bladder can no longer function as a storage organ, as urine simply passes through it into the urethra and out of the body. Dogs with urinary incontinence involuntarily leak urine from their bodies. The causes of urinary incontinence may include infections of the bladder or congenital abnormalities; however, the overwhelming majority involve hormone imbalances. The principal hormone involved in bladder control is estrogen. Estrogen hormones prevalent in the female are necessary for the normal function of the muscles located at the base of the bladder where it empties into the urethra. These muscles cannot constrict and block off the urethra openings without estrogens. The majority of estrogen hormone is produced by the ovaries. The adrenal glands also produce a minor, but much lesser amount. In the male, the hormone testosterone is necessary for the urethral muscles to function properly. Testosterone is predominately produced by the testicles. As a pet ages, production of the sex hormones estrogen and testosterone begins diminishing. Hormonal urinary incontinence is more prevalent in geriatric patients than in younger animals. As might be expected, spayed females and castrated males have the highest incidence of urinary incontinence. This is because in the process of spaying the female, the ovaries are removed to prevent heat cycles. In castrating (neutering) the male, the testicles are removed. Removing the ovaries and testicles greatly reduces the sex hormone levels within the body. This does not imply that all spayed females or castrated males will develop incontinence. In fact, less than five percent will ever be affected. It appears that the amount of sex hormones produced by the adrenal glands is generally more than adequate for normal bladder and urethra function. Symptoms In common hormonal incontinence, the dog appears very healthy, but leaks urine. Typically, they are unaware of the urine leakage. While the dog sleeps, a puddle of urine may form in the bedding area. Risks Infection from incontinence is the most common risk as bacteria may spread up the ureters to the kidneys. Hormonal deficiencies pose no real threat to the patient except that skin irritations may develop about the genital area due to constant urine leakage. Treatment Antibiotics are commonly used if an infection is suspected or confirmed. Phenylpropanolamine (a decongestant which stimulates the part of the nervous system that controls smooth muscles and glands), previously the most commonly used drug used to treat urinary incontinence in females, has been recalled by the FDA. Some suggested natural treatments for incontinence in females are: Women's Menocaps from Wise Woman Herbals (800) 532-5219 Black cohosh, readily available at health food stores Urinary Incontinence by HomeoPet (800) 556-0738 also available from Chamisa Ridge catalog (800) 743-3188 and The Vitamin Shoppe (800) 880-3055

8cutepaws

Except for one time, she always pees in the same general area in the house. 

Have you cleaned that area with a really good enzyme cleaner?  The smell could be attracting her back.

Take a look at www.entirelypets.com.  If the vet can't find anything that can be treated, one of their Cholodin products might help.  Inappropriate urination and senility are two of the symptoms cholodin may minimize.  They also carry Homeopet Leaks No More, NaturPet Senior Bladder Support Time Release, and Vetri-Science Bladder Strength.

Dawnben

I have used black cohash for this if you find out nothing medical is wrong. My friend had 2 dobermans that were incontinent and this worked really well for her. You get it at the health food store and give as directed hope this helps

Wow -- not an herb I would use lightly ***particularly*** where it looks SO clear that there could be infection.  Black cohosh is being used a lot for menopausal symptoms in human women -- and yet there are STRONG STRONG cautions about it -- it is *very* hard on the liver.  In total honesty it's not something I would use without the specific advice and consent of a really good herbalist vet. 

I'm really prone to using herbals but man, I would be SO very very cautious here ... the OP (original poster) doesn't seem to have really good veterinary help anyway ... and I would very much hesitate to put something like this out there where someone might think it would be great to avoid a vet visit - just go get a cheap bottle of herbs instead.

IF YOU DO have true incontinence -- **I TRULY DO NOT THINK IT IS** -- then that's all the more reason to check **FREQUENTLY** to make sure you don't have infection.  When an animal voids in its sleep then bacteria tends to collect at the open end of the urethra and infection can result.  That leads to really nasty nasty stuff.

Black cohosh is an awesome medicinal herb -- but it's also a very strong one, and one that should be used with great caution and wisdom. 

I'm truly not trying to be ratty here -- but unfortunately for every poster we get probably 50 or more "lurkers".  People who don't post, don't ask questions -- but who often are just looking for something 'fast' -- or something 'cheaper than going to the vet' -- and disaster can happen FAST there. 

I would honestly not recommend something like black cohosh (or other herbals used for incontinence) be used until **after** at the very least, a sterile urine draw is done and a culture and sensitivity is performed to make darned sure there isn't lingering infection and/or crystals, casts, or some other physical thing that may not be readily apparent with a quick "strip test" by the vet.

Herbs can be an absolutely marvelous complimentary therapy ... I use them all the time.  But wise use of them is important. 

 

Thank you for the replies, it helps to have some more info going in so I can feel a bit more educated going into the vet. 

 I do not see blood when she pees, the vet just said there was a small trace of blood in her urine when we were there the last time.  It doesn't stink either, but the pee is a darker yellow, maybe a 'dirty' yellow would be a good way to describe it. Not clear. 

She is drinking slightly more than normal, but not excessively where I'm going 'oh my goodness why is she so thirsty all the time'. 

 Her appt. is at 5:30 on Thurs.  We really like the vet we go to but definately was not impressed with the guy we saw last time.  Usually we see whoever is available next because they all have been helpful in the past (after having been through two other vets before finding a place we love).  This time I am going to be sure to tell them when I sign us in I don't want to see who we saw last time. 

 I sure hope we get some answers, not only for us, but to help her. 

 In an incontinent dog, never assume anything until you get kidney function tested, plus urine culture and sensitivity.  Callie is very pro-alternative therapy, but she's knowledgeable about the benefits of western medicine, too.  Don't go the herbal route with this until you rule out infection or kidney disease.  It's not that common for a nine year old Lab to be cognitively impaired, so I would keep investigating for a medical cause at this point.

Had the vet appt. today.  Urinalysis, Ultrasound and blood panel were all done.  The vet also did an internal exam.  She said she was leaking urine even as she had her hand under her.  She said she had a lot of inflammation.  The Ultrasound shows a mass on her bladder.  :(  We have some meds and are going back in two weeks.  The blood panel all came back good.  They said there was a high white cell count (believe that was it, white cell) which is common with inflammation.  With the meds she is hoping to reduce the size of the mass and inflammation and help with the urgency Pepper feels in having the need to pee.  She did give us the recommendation of a specialist if we choose to have the mass biopsied.  We will go back in two weeks though for another ultra-sound and see how the meds have helped that far and wether the mass has reduced in size.

 Thank you all for your help. 

My understanding is that she went to the vet and was still having problems that is why I gave her the article to read. The only thing that I have ever heard is that women with breast cancer should avoid Black Cohosh. So I just looked it up There have been some reported dangers that using this supplement caused damage to the liver. However, a recently study completed in June 2009 shows that taking this supplement does not affect any liver function even after a year of using it. However, as a precaution, let your healthcare professional know that you intend to take this supplement if you have a history of liver problems. I would not recommend something that I thought was harmful to a pet. As I said I read about it 5 years ago and recommended it to a friend and she had great success with it and her dogs are still alive and well. I have never believed in western medicine and don't use it. I am 55 and am not on any medications and have never been hospitalized for anything except to have my 2 children. I completely believe in a wholesome diet and exercise for me and my furry friends. I use holistic care and herbs only. Where you go to medicine first I go to herbs first. We have different views and that is what makes the world go round. But what is important is that the dog get help of some kind.

Dawnben

My understanding is that she went to the vet and was still having problems that is why I gave her the article to read. The only thing that I have ever heard is that women with breast cancer should avoid Black Cohosh. So I just looked it up There have been some reported dangers that using this supplement caused damage to the liver. However, a recently study completed in June 2009 shows that taking this supplement does not affect any liver function even after a year of using it. However, as a precaution, let your healthcare professional know that you intend to take this supplement if you have a history of liver problems. I would not recommend something that I thought was harmful to a pet. As I said I read about it 5 years ago and recommended it to a friend and she had great success with it and her dogs are still alive and well. I have never believed in western medicine and don't use it. I am 55 and am not on any medications and have never been hospitalized for anything except to have my 2 children. I completely believe in a wholesome diet and exercise for me and my furry friends. I use holistic care and herbs only. Where you go to medicine first I go to herbs first. We have different views and that is what makes the world go round. But what is important is that the dog get help of some kind.

 

While you would not recommend something you think is harmful, you are not a vet, either holistic or otherwise, and as you can see, the dog has a significant problem which might even be life threatening.  Delay when dealing with a potential cancer is never a good thing. JMHO

Did I miss read this? I was answering a question after the vet visit. We took her to the vet and they tested her for UTI and put her on med for UTI just in case as there was a very small trace of blood the vet said. Still a month later and still having issues. Vet said it could be behaviorial or early dementia and she doesn't realize she is doing it?

I'm happy to hear the vet did a more thorough exam...including a senior panel.  Our geriatrics need special attention, and getting a senior blood panel is very important to have so that the vet has a baseline and can see any changes that occur. 

Although, it stinks that the vet found a mass, now you have a better idea of what you could be dealing with.  I'm wishing you the best of luck with your elder, and my old man, Buddy (11 year old Lab) sends his lubbins too.

I have to add my 2 cents on the use of herbs.  I am a huge homeopathic believer and user for both my human family and my dogs; but one needs to thoroughly understand how the use of herbs can affect both humans and animals...and they can affect each differently.  BTW, there are some herbs (and OTC meds) that are ok for dogs, but not ok for cats, for instance.  Also, if there is something going on with an animal that is drastic, i.e., cancer...follow the vet primarily; and then the use of homeopathic remedies can be looked at to aid in easing symptoms, boosting immunities, etc.

Again, best of luck, sending your elder get better vibes, and please keep us posted.

Dawnben

Did I miss read this?

Yeah, I actually think you did -- the beginning sounds like they "tested" for a uti and found nothing ... BUT look at the end of her post:

" she always pees in the same general area in the house.  When she goes outside she pees in different spots a few times, but she has been like this for years where she will pee in different spots as she walks around outside and sniffs around.  Recently I've noticed she will actuall squat to pee and really nothing comes out."

[emphasis mine]

It's not incontinence like she's always going in her sleep or just can't 'wait'.  The last sentence is the HUGE telling point.  There's kidney'bladder distress there - that's not spay incontinence.

So often vets will just do a strip test -- that tells you **nothing**.  Crystals, stones -- and in this case a mass found  ... typically you'll see leaking in spay incontinence -- dripping here and there, dripping while sleeping.  But not picking and choosing or unable to void when she tries.  That's another problem.

Vets so often don't suggest the better tests if they think people unwilling to spend money ... but then to simply blame behavior when you see problems (particularly when there was blood in the urine -- that needed to be followed up on -- that's more than just a light UTI but the owners weren't to know that).