Labrador with serious immune condition with severe Ascites

    • Bronze

    Labrador with serious immune condition with severe Ascites

     My 8 year old Labrador, Harvey, developed sickness, followed by intermittent diarrhoea and ascites. Looking back, he had been moulting badly since I put him on a senior light diet, about six weeks ago (Nutro Choice Senior) to help him lose weight under the control of the Vets clinic. He has had every test imaginable including an Endoscopy and there was no trace of any tumours and all his organs were healthy. His stomach was very inflamed however and he was losing protein.An immune condition has been diagnosed but no cause found.

    He was put on a Royal Canin Sensitivity Control diet but no longer wants to eat it. Today, he has had scrambled egg and fish cake but doesn't want to eat anything else.

    He has had the Ascites drained twice in the past week as he was in such discomfort and couldn't eat. He has been prescribed a high dosage of Steroids and Diuretics.

    Over the weekend the weight has literally dropped off him, including on his head with all his bone structure very prominent . The Ascites is leaking from him, presumably from the drainage site and he is becoming increasingly weak and unable to stand easily.

    Any ideas anybody please. My vet has been great but is at a loss to know why he is reacting like this or what else to try.

    He was a strong healthy dog.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Cristina,

    I am so sorry Harvey is feeling so bad. What are the medications and dosages he's taking? What was the immune condition he was diagnosed with? Some steroids, when used in high doses, do cause a lot of muscle loss and other side effects. (And, often, they are used in high doses with autoimmune disorders.) I am sure Callie will also be by--she can provide a lot information.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I'm sorry your furkid Harvey is dealing with this.  I have very little info for you as I don't know a whole lot on this issue.  I would however recommend using milk thistle to help protect the liver and possibly a GI protectant.  The steroids will wreak havoc on them.  Did you have blood work done and chemistry profile done?  If he's becoming increasingly weak and unable to stand I'd be taking himto the vet sooner rather than later.  Like I was saying I know very little about this condition but anything that can affect the immune system or blood loss should be taken very seriously.

    Hopefully someone else here knows a little more.

    Prayers and positive healing vibes for Harvey.

    Johnny & Tessy

    • Gold Top Dog

     I can't really comment on Harvey's condition but I want you to know he will be in my prayers.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I can't help out either other than to second the milk thistle if he's on Prednisone.  Also, a stomach protectant of some sort like Pepsid.  My dog also has/had an immune condition called thrombocytopenia.

    I'll be thinking about him and watching for updates. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    My first, best and most immediate advice for you is to head to the nearest good vet school.  Often your normal vet just is *not* able to deal with some of these intense auto-immune diseases.

    There's a HUGE thread on here about IMHA/AIHA (immune-mediated hemolytic anemia) - and frankly all 3 of us who have responded to you have dogs WITH IMHA.  (we see the words "immune condition" and "Ascites" and all three of us get chills and can't breathe -- right John and Kate??)

    Does your vet think it's liver-oriented?  Has bloodwork been done to see what the liver numbers are?  Or does the ascites seem to come from heart stuff?   Ascites is fluid in the body cavity -- many times it's caused because some part of the body isn't processing the blood well (and I'm making a royal mess of describing this).  In IMHA literally the blood can get so *thin* -- because of so little red blood cells IN the blood -- that the plasma in the blood literally leaks out of the blood vessels (the way plastic wrap that is too thin will let whatever is inside dry out?? because the moisture goes right thru the plastic -- same thing happens to the blood vessels - the blood gets so thin it literally 'leaks' out of the veins and arteries)

    If you can tell us where you are located  we can probably tell you a good vet school near you.  Kate (Frisby's mom) has done an excellent list of vet  schools. 

    Often vet schools are FAR cheaper than you might think -- you deal with students, not just vets so it's not like going to a specialty vet, and to be honest, it's often WAY WAY WAY **BETTER** because they tend to be more cutting edge. 

    Whether it is the blood getting thin (and I would almost suspect IMHA from what you're saying) OR if it is the liver being involved -- both can cause nausea. 

    Milk thistle - DEFINITELY.  It will help detox the liver and it will help protect the body against the ravages of the other diseases. 

    There are so many ways the immune system can react against the body -- and to be honest, if you HAVE your dog's last blood work you can post it -- a lot of us have had to learn to read it.  But if the vet hasn't done bloodwork, you need it done **NOW**.  If your dog is getting as weak as I suspect, then honestly I would be on my way *tonight* to the nearest vet school. 

    I'm not being an alarmist -- but those of us who have dealt with the auto-immune diseases know these diseases can worsen SO fast.  Waiting is your worst enemy.  You can "self-refer" usually -- and simply call them and say you are bringing in a sick dog.  Call your own vet in the morning and ask for them to fax all your dog's records to where ever you go.

    Ascites is very serious -- no matter what has caused it (and it can be a wide variety of things but hepatic failure caused by autoimmune and IMHA both can among other things)

    Don't feel you are being unthankful to your vet -- many of us have had to do the same thing.  My dog Billy was up at the University of Florida in ICU for a long time, Tessy is still being treated for IMHA as is Frisby.  BUT they are surviving and doing very well.  With quick action your dog may be able to recover as well -- but it likely needs the greater resources than your vet can give you. 

    I'm going to email you as well since it looks like you are not online presently.  Please -- you can contact any of the 3 of us and we'll try to help you. 

    PS -- keep your dog EATING.  It is absolutely critical.  If it is hepatic in origin, the toxins from the liver will shunt directly to the brain.  Literally the dog "feels" sick but really isn't as nauseus as the brain tells it that it is.  There are things that can help clear some of those toxins -- even something very cheap like lactulose (which is actually a laxative but also binds to toxins and gets them to leave the body) --

    But often once they eat something that has made them feel 'sick' then they won't want to eat that thing again -- so give this dog ANYTHING to eat that it will consent to eat.  Don't worry about whether it's 'balanced' or not -- KEEP IT EATING.  Because they have to eat to tolerate the meds and without the meds, they don't stand a chance.  So try other canned food, try hamburger and rice, try anything you had for supper that the dog was interested in -- just keep the dog eating.  It is important.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Cristina, You see the autoimmune folks are here in full force for you and Harvey (Callie, Johnny, WillowChow) plus TONS of people who are and will continue to send healing energy and say lots of prayers for you and Harvey--this is THE place for support. Feel free to PM or email me any time, as well.  Ditto on the recommendation to use milk thistle (Frisby has it twice a day) and the stomach protectant (esp. if Harvey's taking prednizone).

    • Bronze

     Wow how wonderful you all are!

     Harvey is on Prednicare,(40 mg) 8 tablets twice a day and  Prilactone (80 mg) 2 tablets once a day and Frusidale (40 mg) 3 tablets twice a day.

    I am taking him back to the vet shortly. He was referred to their own Veterinary hospital where he had ultrasounds, endoscopy, blood tests, urine & faeces tests. His liver, kidneys and heart all seemed fine but he was leaking protein.

     I have given him some mackerel and pollock for breakfast this morning and he ate most of it. He seems a little stronger than last night but is still very poorly. He won't eat any 'dog food'. and has always refused to drink tap water. He will only drink rain water so I ave a big tub outside to catch it.

    I am in the UK and I think most of you are in the USA?

     

    I thank you all so much for your concern, helpful advice and prayers.

    • Bronze

     I'm devastated to report that Harvey has given up the fight. He was a great dog and friend.

     My heart goes out to those of you who are dealing with this awful condition on a daily basis. I had never come across it before and my vet had only seen it once, about 10 years ago.

     Thank you so much for your concern and help. You are a great support group. I'll keep you in my heart and if I ever have another dog I'll check you out again.

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Oh Cristina -- I am SO VERY sorry.  These auto-immune diseases are so horrible -- and they are so difficult for the vets to know how to treat (no matter where you are).  You have my sympathies -- you might want to check out the Rainbows Bridge area of the board -- it will comfort you.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Oh, Cristina, I am so sorry to hear your news. Perhaps you'll be able to find some comfort knowing he isn't in pain any more and can run free at the Rainbow Bridge. Do come back and visit when you feel up to it.

    • Bronze

     Thank you so much for your support. You are all so kind and have really touched me.

    Today has been very hard but it helps to know that people across the pond care about my beautiful boy.


    • Gold Top Dog

    I'm so sorry for your loss.  You have my deepest sympathies and condolences.

    Run free Harvey.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I came on at work just to see if there was any updates about Harvey.  I'm so sorry to read this.  I'm sorry for your loss.  Keep in touch with us. 

    Lori

    • Gold Top Dog

     Cristina, I am very sorry for your lose. Run free Harvey. You will be missed and loved forever.