Anyone know about Pepcid?

The fudge incident WAS hard on the liver (which is why I told you to give him huge amounts of milk thistle -- to help HEAL the liver).

Ginger, the spice, is often used to settle the stomach. 

Pepcid is often used pretty long term -- IMHA dogs take it to help them cope with the cyclosporine.  Billy took Prilosec -- TWICE a day (not just once a day -- that's a 24 hour pill and it's expensive) for over 18 months. 

Dyan -- I've been cooking for over 35 years for dogs -- at times up to 125 pounds of dogs a week.

And you don't go sheerly by pound weight -- not at all.  You do whatever maintains them at the weight you want. 

When you were doing it before you were doing all sorts of crazy things like trying to peel potatoes -- you don't do that.  You maybe cut them in 1/4's or something and just cook the pieces and then mash it up.

Many use a food processor -- and I hate it.  Use what works.  It's not cheap -- but you use  the amount of meat that works for THIS dog.  You can use cheap cuts -- a lot of folks buy cheap roasts and crock pot it and then shred it.  (pork, beef, whatever)  You can get your butcher to buy beef heart for you which is CHEAP CHEAP (like $1.69 a pound) and is muscle meat.

But you will want to start with just TWO ingredients -- like white potato and meat.  Not as an elmination -- but JUST so you will know what he tolerates well.

Gibby may just be a dog who NEEDS to eat more than twice a day.  It is NOT uncommon for a dog to need something to eat before bed.  And saving a couple of gingersnaps for him for that time isn't bad.  Billy can't go a long time with an empty stomach -- never has been able to. 

But you can give Prilosec pretty long term.  I don't know what the outside range is - you'd have to ask the vet.  But DO SOME READING because stuff like that can be hard on the liver long term and if you add some milk thistle (you can get that in BULK -- you can add it to his food after it's cooked and before you put it in containers to store!!) if you have to.

You know, I think, I never advocate a high protein diet.  I know that's not what the current trend says -- everyone is feeding an ultra high protein diet now.  but in all my years of doing dogs it's always proven to be a mistake -- and I'm in this for LONGEVITY.  I like having 19 year old dogs.  It's nice having them live a long time.  Socks was almost 70 pounds and she was NOT in good health but made it to 17 1/2.  So somehow I'm doing something right.  But she was on a cooked diet nearly the whole time she was with me -- but no grain.  Veggies out her ears ... but no grain. 

It's all in getting organized - I cook ONCE a week.  That's all.  That gives me consistency and helps me control the weight.

Another thot -- when he gets hungry before bed give him an apple -- quarter it and take out the seeds -- teach him to 'chew it' by holding onto the quarters and let him nibble them.  but apple pectin is awesome for the gut. 

Thanks for your answer Callie....it was very helpful AND encouraging.  You know I did do the Milk Thistle for a couple of days...but then stopped.  Boy...I can't believe I started this thread and all was well..and I went out for a while today... and came home and Gibby greeted me, I ran him out quickly....he "helped me" bring the groceries in.....then coughed like he was joking a couple of times that caught my attention....then started asking to go out every five minutes.....just to eat grass.  Darn.... no clue what that was about.  He never did vomit....never did the swallowing thing or anything....just kept trying to eat grass...and of course it was 5 degrees this morning...didn't even get to 20 and the little grass he did find was pretty frozen. I had to pick up some of my house plants..he was trying to eat them.   I gave him fresh broccoli,  a ginger snap, crackers, finally a Pepto Bismol pill.....he bugged us for I bet two hours doing this.  He wanted to eat stuff...food...non food...probably felt sick to his stomach.   That was it....I went and got some chicken breasts from the freezer and cooked them and rice.  Thats what he had for supper...and thats what he will have the next few days.  AND back on Pepcid twice a day for a few days.  MAYBE..... eating that will get him back in shape...

Chicken and rice....... and ground beef and rice, both brown and white.....I believe he tolerates. He has had both after issues and was fine. 

I have to make him more food tomorrow....I think I will stick with the chicken for a few days...thats what he started with today. I could do potatoe  also....maybe do that in a few days.

Its figuring how much to feed him that bothers me mucho. Today I did one cup of chicken to two cups of rice, and I have NO CLUE is that okay or not.  I don't want to do too much meat in that I read that with acid reflux fat and high protein seem to make it worse.    And then.....there is the "balancing the nutrients subject but not worrying about that yet..... going to try to get his stomach okay.

I love the apple idea...Gibby loves apples....and oranges for that matter.   

Oh by the way...he does eat three times a day rather than two, has for more than a year...it was just a short time that he went down to two...then realized he needed to eat more often to keep the tummy issues down.

I will

Honestly?  do ground beef and potato -- both chicken *and* rice can be inflammatory and he will do better on the beef.

IF you do chicken, do dark meat *not* white meat.  White meat chicken is a HUMAN choice because it's lower cholesterol.  Dogs don't have a cholesterol problem and they NEED the better nutrition in the dark meat.

1 part meat/2 parts veg is fine.  If you really want to use grain (potato has more nutrition and is more likely to digest even better) cook WHITE rice (not brown - it's really tough to digest) and cook it WAY done -- lots of water, blown open all mushy.  THEN add the meat.

If you do use potato -- make sure they aren't "green" (my mother used to call it "sunburned";) -- that's the one caution -- that green is poison (to both humans and dogs) so pick whatever potatos look not green.

Also -- don't throw away the water.  Just mash the potato and use the water to cook the meat.  Waste nothing!  After you have the meat cooked just mash it all in together -- don't throw away liquid from veggies EVER.  It's got vitamins in it.

I do give him ground beef....honestly have been cooking that OR chicken for most of his life as a topping.  My vet also used to suggest either Chicken or Beef as a bland food. BUT.....I have read several places that beef is the number one food to cause allergies.    I picked chicken right now for two reasons.....1. That is all I had available without going to the store. and 2.  He has been eating Biljac frozen as I said......and he has been scratching at his face and rubbing his eyes quite a bit the past few weeks....and my DH and I have discusses this and thinking BJ is not doing good for him in that way...even though I was hoping it would do well for his digestion.  BJs first ingredient is beef.

I did give him chicken breasts since I had them....but going to the store this morning to buy more chicken and will get thighs.....because I can get them boneless. Got him legs several times ( that was what I was doing at first that took all the time...it wasn't peeling potatoes because I didn't use potatoes....) but by the time you take the skin off and take it all off the bones....... its takes a long time and goes down to nothing. I myself don't like the white meat on breasts of either chicken or turkey......so dark is great. BUT thighs I can buy boneless.

I do like the potatoe idea because in my eys...rice has NOTHING in it worthy....just calories and helps fill him up.  I have two sweet potatoes that I baked during the week...I am giving those to him with the new chicken.

A weird thing....this morning for breakfast I gave him the same chicken/rice as last night supper... I have no clue what is going on with him...he garbages up everything real quick....but this morning it must have taken him more than 5 minutes.....to eat his 2 1/2 cups of food. He kept lifting his head after he got some in his mouth.  Rice pretty much all over..... and then on top of it......after he ate I went to put his collar on to take him out and his nose and pink eye were SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooo   pink that it scared me.  They get real pink when he is stressed....   I have no idea what is with him right now.   Even wondering if something is in his throat.  You konw he was tryng to eat my plants yesterday...............    I will watch him today carefully.....not that I don't always!!! 

 I know I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating - you should *really* consider talking to a specialist about Gibby's issues.  They are so ongoing despite all you've tried that I wouldn't be surprised if there's an ongoing issue that needs to be treated.  Is there a specific reason why you haven't? 

I had River on Beano for over a year and it helped him cope with the gas - it's natural so I wasn't as concerned.  Now that he is older and more mature he dosen't have the issues as often and when he does I give him gasX or tums when he shows signs of an upset tummy and that helps him.

stardog85

Is there a specific reason why you haven't? 

Yes, mainly because he is not sick.  He has had different issues here or there, and  I have taken him in a few times when he was having an issue and he is always over any problems before I even get him out of the house. Except when he had a bout of a loose stool a while back and he had worms and was put on medication for that....of which he still has to take another round of that dewormer in Feb.   They tell me to quit changing food ( I was changing formulas of EP for a while at first )...that dogs need to stay on the same food. 

So I am trying to watch carefully for signs... I have a log going with information as to any issues he is having and the date...so that when I do take him in I have something real to tell them.  And in between that time if for any reason its food that is causing him problems.... I can change that food by myself to figure that part out.

I do want to add though..what he has been going thru this past month, has been since he ate a whole lot of fudge from a plate on New Years Day.... I have to figure about 30 pieces or so..... it was white chocolate for the most part..if he got any of the chocolate side of the plate I don't know for sure...but not many if he did...but there was a lot of white chocolate fudge with very strong peppermint that he did get a hold of.

Dyan -- this could so easily be liver related - did you give him milk thistle after the fudge incident?  The peppermint didn't cause a problem (I use it medicinally all the time -- both orally and topically) BUT the white chocolate and fat/sugar/etc *could* have.  The milk thistle isn't just to detox -- it actually will help protect the liver while it regenerates and heals.  But bloodwork should be done to be honest.  Particularly since you can identify it as a problem starting point.

Callie...I honestly forgot to give him Milk Thistle after the first couple of days.  Mainly because he had been pretty much okay.... he did his swallowing thing for a second or two...  but that was it.  I was experimenting with the Pepcid to see if I could get him to not do that..... but other than that he had been fine...eating, drinking, playing, gnawing bones...etc. 

He has had some of these issues since a baby....vomiting bile on an empty stomach....      out of the clear seeming to get sick and want to eat grass   but rarely has he vomited other than a few times when he ate too fast....or the few times of bile.  And after the fudge he did that a few times for a day or so.. which is why I was doing the Pepcid.  He really hasn't gotten any better or worse from the time I got him...again except for this month after the fudge incident.  And he isn't worse in that he is sick....but doing the swallowing thing that seems like acid reflux.

I had him to the vet a few times for all this.....a couple times I took him the day he was sick...and by the time we got there he was fine....they were only concerned with blockage and bloat.  I've also had several conversations with 2 of the 3 vets there about him and these issues....again...they get mad ( not really mad but get on my case ) because I dont' feed him what they tell me to ( Science Diet usually ) and they think I'm a little protective....and probably nuts. After all...I'm the one that won't get some of the vaccines they recommend and could get for free, THAT puts up a red flag.      He was there last for diarrhea and was tested for giardia and worms...which he had.     In fact he gets his last of 3 treatments in Feb. for hook worm.         He will be going back in about Feb. for another HW bloodtest......he had gotten one of the recalled HW pills....so they ran a test...and then want the dog back in about 6 months to be retested.       I suppose I could have them run some blood work but what do I tell them for what???      They already think I'm nuts, so I need to get one step ahead of them.

Of course......if he is sick thats a different story altogether. I would have him there right away.

If he's feeling "sick" to his stomach (as in nauseous) I'd not think he'd be trying to eat, eat, eat.  Animals don't usually eat when nauseous.  I'd say something is going on with his digestion, but I don't know that it is his being nauseated.

Just a question, as I've never homecooked longterm. (short term for illneses and the like, but not on a long term basis) Do you have to add a supplement for things like calcium? I'd not think something like a boneless meat along with rice or potatoes would offer enough calcium.  I certainly think homecooking has a lot of benefits, just didn't know how the calcium issue and the like was handled.

I'd certainly think about having him seen by a specialist of some sort since the issues have been so ongoing. It may not be a sickness, exactly, but something is going on. It's concerning enough that you've had to switch foods many times, so it's obviously a worry.  At this point, I'd think it to be less of a strictly food issue, and more of a structural issue of some sort.  Have any other dogs in his line had any similar health issues?

Dyan, I'm wonderin' if the hookworm meds didn't completely do the job and he's still "off" from some infestation that just isn't bad enough to make him actually vomit each time.  I know my kitten, Tempo, has some residual digestive issues from having a bad worm problem.  We treated him correctly but they just didn't die and then by the time we realized it he was really bad.  And, it's effected his digestion--permanently I think. 

Gibby, you're going to send your dad to the loony bin!  LOL  Sounds like you are on top of the game though.  I also use Prilosec instead of pepcid.  I've read that you don't even need to give it every 24hrs but it will last even longer than this.  Pepcid, well, I just didn't want to be giving meds this often...plus from everything I've read the prilosec works better....at least in our case.  They both work differently.

Have you tried giving him some pre&pro-biotics daily to see if this helps?

I'd also second the chem tests to check his liver...especially if you haven't already.  Maybe when you have him tested for HW you can have them do a full checkup?

Give him some Hugs for me.

grab01

Just a question, as I've never homecooked longterm. (short term for illneses and the like, but not on a long term basis) Do you have to add a supplement for things like calcium? I'd not think something like a boneless meat along with rice or potatoes would offer enough calcium.  I certainly think homecooking has a lot of benefits, just didn't know how the calcium issue and the like was handled.

I haven't home cooked long term either....working on that now.  Yes..calcium is a major issue when homecooking and using boneless meat.  I know I have a lot of papers I am going thru now... you can add bone meal.... or even dried egg shells that are ground...       that is what I am doing right now.    For right now while I get my act together.. I bought 2 pks of skinless/boneless thighs which total 6 lbs.. I cooked a bunch of potatoes and smooshed them up to add to the chicken and also mixed some chicken with a couple of sweet potatoes that I had baked and put in the fridge.   Gosh..my DH and I were talking last night... that all that food I bought...along with the 4 breasts and a bunch of rice I cooked on Friday... I have enough food to feed him for only 5 days.... and then I might be short one meal.  Honestly can't see this working...spent hours in the kitchen and can't really afford it I don't think. I have to fool with this today and rethink.  I meant to do 1 c meat to 2 c. potatoes...but kept getting interrupted by the phone...ended up with 1 of each..... so it didn't make as much as I had hoped for.   I picked up more reading material on the Internet this morning...so will take time today and read.  One thing that I read in two papers...is white potatoes are not good for arthritic dogs ( which he is not ) and another paper said white/golden potatoes are not good often because of the starch content. So again I need to rethink.

grab01

It's concerning enough that you've had to switch foods many times, so it's obviously a worry.  At this point, I'd think it to be less of a strictly food issue, and more of a structural issue of some sort.  Have any other dogs in his line had any similar health issues?

Honestly... I haven't changed food that much.  He came to me on Pedigree NATURALLY I changed from that.  Put him on Eagle Pack where he stayed except for a brief period on BilJac Frozen, which I had him on for about a month...he seemed to do okay on it, but I REALLY don't like a few of the ingredients in it.  Before Christmas I decided to hang it up with EP just trying to get rid of these once in a while issues....I bought him California Natural that took me a couple of weeks to switch him over and when I finally did he vomitted it up..one of the few times he actually threw up food. Coincidental??  Probably..but I had  purchased a small and large bag...the store would not return an opened pkg so I took back the large bag before I opened it.  I can't really afford to throw away $50 and have to spend another $50 for another brand.   Only thing I did do as far as changing...I was changing formulas of EP...I did that with Bubblegum so I was doing it with Gibby...and that is what the vet was yelling at me about.

And its true.....it may not have anything to do with food what so ever...probably don't in fact.  I just want to investigate that end of it, and honestly... more and more I read about kibble.....I believe there IS better brands than others....but I just don't believe any kibble is good for a dog.

I also wanted to point out....that thru out all of this.... I have often thought that stress has paid a big part in this. Because of the fact he seemed to have problems on Saturdays.....and why?   Only thing I can think of is we go out every Friday night.        Also..just as recently as last week while he was doing the swallowing thing more....... twice he did it in the afternoon...while we were getting ready to go out and he was standing there watching us.     He had been fine before and after.....eating, drinking..playing etc etc.  Gibby is a very happy fun dog...but he is a very excitable dog too.  My friend who has acid reflux problems....told me it comes and goes...sometimes it will go away for a long while..then comes back when her life gets crazy and stressfull...so I am keeping that in my mind.     All of this is why  I am trying to figure some of this out by myself, so that I actually can be more helpful in adding light to what is going on with him.

Gibby came from a breeder that said she knows of no problems with the others...nor her own that she kept.   But I must tell you..... Bubblegum came from a breeder that told me one thing when I got her....and much later when I questioned her about this or that......she denied saying ANY of those things.  

grab01

If he's feeling "sick" to his stomach (as in nauseous) I'd not think he'd be trying to eat, eat, eat.  Animals don't usually eat when nauseous.  I'd say something is going on with his digestion, but I don't know that it is his being nauseated.

Dyan this sounds so much like the issues MANY swissy owners and some other large breed, deep chested dogs on our sites and at our venues talk about and expierence often as young dogs and less as adult dogs.  We call it the "lickies" cause our dogs lick and lick and lick everything in a tortured type way.  I don't think nauseous either its more gas realated.  When River was a puppy he had every test there could be ran and he had no apparent issues, between myself and the Swissy owners I know we have spent much money on a diagonose and no one has one yet.  It is a common subject amongonst us breed owners.  I have heard of Danes and Boxers from time to time with this issue.

All I can say is that what we have found is maintence helps.  Preventative antacides like Beano before meal or Pepcid, gasx after meals - etc.,  changing foods until one works the best, adding fiber like missing link helps for some, confindment so they don't eat everything in sight.  River would eat rocks when he is having an episode - anything he can put in his mouth and eat he does!  One of the common factor's in Swissies appears to be stress related after a meal so confidment and calmness for an hour after a meal helps.

Good luck Dyan and I hope Gibby finds some relief.