Comparison of Heartworm Preventatives (re: Safety)

but simply meant to say that what a competent vet prescribes for your pet will normally be alright

 
Both humans and animals have been the unfortunate victim of medications that were considered safe and effective (think Vioxx).  I'm no longer the trusting patient that I once was.  I don't think for one minute that the Dr.'s are intentionally prescribing dangerous medications, but sometimes they're not aware of the complications or side affects until something tragic happens.  Drug reps can be very persuasive about the "latest & greatest" medication on the market. 

I was n ot at the FDA/CVA "hearing", but know several there were.  Both sides presented their evidence.  Fort dodge was there in force.  But even  after both sides were heard, it was decided that PH6 had not been proven safe enough and the panel wanted Fort Dodge to do more studies and prove it was as safe as they had said. One of the panel who voted that it could be returned  said a black box warning  should be added.  I understand that has never been done on an animal med.  Note I said I understand, but I can not state that as fact.
 
Also Canada gave Fort Dodge a certain lenght of time to prove it was as safe as they said, and apparently from the  "recommended" label change, Fort dodge did not prove it.  I also agree with someone else's post.  Many times recommend or request is a nice way of saying do it.  Like when i woud say to my boys "Please clean up your room."  I may ask please do it , but they knew I MEANT do it.
 
 
There were a few whose dogs never left the hospital after getting PH6 shots--went in seizure or shock and couldn't be brought out.  Fort dodge said it couldn't be the PH6 because it happaned to soon.  Others went into seizures  or got sick 9-10 laters, and Fort dodge said it couldn't be PH6 because it would have happened sooner.  They told ones who did not have a necropsy done that it couldn't be proven it was PH6 because there was no necropsy done.  And then they told ones like me who DID have necropsy done that there was no scientific evidence that PH6 killed my dog.  I asked for scientific evidence that it DID NOT kill him, but they couldn't provide  it.  I know of one dog, a border collie mix, age 7 1/2 who went into a seizure, his first ever, 10 hours after getting his 4th proheart6 injection.  The only way to stop it was to totally knock him out.  But as soon as he started coming out of it, the seizure started up again.  Thirty six hours after his 4th PH6 injection, he was dead. Bandit died in Wisconsin the same day my Hunter died here.  Fort Dodge denies Proheart6 killed Bandit even tho that was the only thing he got that and he had never had a seizure in his 7 1/2 years.
 
I sure didn't know they were doing studies on ProHeart6 over in Europe, etc.  Never saw anything about them, and they were not mentioned at the FDA/CVA panel hearing.  If they were proving that PH6 was so safe, why didn't Fort Dodge bring in the study reports?  I believe they only talked about the 12 month version in Austalia---where THEY rule on reactions and deaths, and we know what they say here.  Here if the dog doesn't have the reaction start at exactly 6 days 12 hours, 49 minutes after the injection, it isn't Proheart6 that caused it.  I know that is rather a snide remark, but when everyone I have talked to via e-mail or phone were told it was not Proheart6 that caused their dog/dogs' reaction and or death because it happened to soon, it happend not soon enough, this, that and younder. that snide remark is retty much is true.  I am going to post a picture of my Hunter, my beautiful, precious boy who died of AIHA after his 3rd PH6 injection and there is not a trace of doubt in my mind it was the PH^ that caused his death.

I was on Vioxx for a while and stopped taking it on my own BEFORE the word was out about how dangerous it was.  My Sister-in-law was still on that Phen-fen (or however you spell it) when the truth came out about it. My doctor was most upset when he found out he had been putting folks on Vioxx, esepcailly folks like me that had a heart murmur.. But what did he have to go on?  The word of the sales rep, the seminars put on to promote it which of course only told what the drug companies wanted the doctors to hear.
 
Reminds of of a movie I say about cars that had a good chance of catching on fire under a certain circumstance.  And it was happening.  But they woulnd't pull the vehicle from the road because profits far  out weighed what they had to pay out to victims of accidents caused by this fault.  I am thinking they called the guy a "bean counter" that figured out profits vx. losses regarding paying out for victims or pulling the vehicle from the road to fix the flaw.
 
And I can't help but wonder if the same doesn't apply to the drug industry, especially animal meds.  Humans can and do sue for tons of money when a fautly drug causes extreme illness or death.  Not so with dogs.  We are lucky to get vet bills paid.  I saw somewhere how much Fort Dodge was pulling in yearly on PH 6 when it was pulled....and it was an eye popping figure.   And I will never believe they just gavve that up at a simple "request" from the FDA. The $1049.71 diagnositc part of Hunter's $2300 bill and the donation in Hunter's Memory to Texas A&M isn't even a drop  from their bucket of profits.
 
The FDA isn't perfect but they sure beat what other countries have.  And the way I figure it, if lobbying, political clout etc keeps or removes a drug, then how in the world did us every day common people get the FDA to "request" Fort Dodge to remove it and then recommend it not come back until more studies and research showed it was safe?.  We have no lobby power, no political power like these mighty drug companies do.  No, I believe the"request" was made because they saw the pattern in the reaction reports.  It was not be based on 10-15, 100 reports, but thousands and many from vets.

I'm no longer the trusting patient that I once was. I don't think for one minute that the Dr.'s are intentionally prescribing dangerous medications, but sometimes they're not aware of the complications or side affects until something tragic happens.

 
I agree completely Cathy.  My Vet, who I believe to be completely competent, still had Proheart6 available in her office after a lot of other Vets stopped using it.  However I know that she was uneasy about it.  When I questioned her about it, she told me that she never offered it as a first choice and only prescribed it to clients who were notoriously bad about keeping up with the monthly hw pills.  I think her uneasiness about it stemmed primarily from the fact that common sense tells us that you don't want to put any more chemicals into the body at one time than is necessary.  She was unaware of all the information that was gradually becoming available.  After that conversation with her, I printed off a lot of internet links (mostly links to other Vets sites that had decided to stop using it) and took it in for her to read.  Ph6 was taken off the market shortly after I gave her that list, so I don't know if it would have completely swayed her away from using it or not.

Hello you Mom's of Minis []

Admit it, you just want to confuse us by posting with those terribly similar names! Oh and btw mini_mom (yes you! [])

I believe you meant to be addressing minimon....no hyphen. I just wanted to "clarify" that for YOU. [sm=wink.gif]

See, you are confused yourself: its minimom, not minimon. Just to clarify that also. []

You both have some nice looking cuties there as your avatars []

P.S.: I wonder, wasn't there a mini-mom also? [&:]

Hello you Mom's of Minis
Admit it, you just want to confuse us by posting with those terribly similar names!

 
Hello back to you Danny.  I think we've confused more than one person since the format change made the "user names" so prominent.  It wasn't an issue on the old board as we could pick any name we wished to have displayed.  It's a good thing that Amelia and I are generally in agreement on most topics or else eople would think we were arguing with ourselves.

Oh crap, a typo.

[sm=smack.gif]

Er...wait...it wasn't a typo....that's actually what my Jamaican friends call me. [sm=lol.gif]

I sure didn't know they were doing studies on ProHeart6 over in Europe, etc. Never saw anything about them, and they were not mentioned at the FDA/CVA panel hearing. If they were proving that PH6 was so safe, why didn't Fort Dodge bring in the study reports? I believe they only talked about the 12 month version in Austalia---where THEY rule on reactions and deaths, and we know what they say here.

 
Good question Sandra!  Fact is they didn't bring in 'any' studies from any other country.  Just stated was used elsewhere.  They did admit that that there were 'some' problems elsewhere also.
 
One of the problems with Australia is that alot of people don't know that they can report it or where/how.  Because the product was marketed as 'safe' many people don't question it until they have heard something about it.

I'm not a believer in any timed released drugs, not even timed realeased vitamins,  there is too much chance for error in the timing. Maybe too much this time, too little next.  But to have something stay in your system for 6 months, and in Europe for 12 months, is just unreal. There were so many people that had dogs that were struggling after getting the injection, they were just waiting and hoping that their dog would "make it" until the time (6 months) that the medicine would be out of their system,,,can you even imagine having to wait a whole year????  
I have said it a thousand times it seems, I would rather my dog die of Heartworm, than by my own hands, and making the decision to give this drug to her.  I know that the people that did make that decision and lost their dogs, blamed themselves for a long long time,,, probably still do.  They thought they were doing the best thing for their dog, how were they to know, especially since their vet was so much for it.  But now if it comes back out,,, we all know what happened the first time, its our warning.

Just in case anyone would be interested, I just got the Agenda for the Dog Owners and Breeders Symposium which my husband and I eagerly attend every year in Gainesville, FL.  People ask me "where have you gotten so much information?" This is a big place 'where'. 
 
If you are anywhere within a possible quick "Florida vacation" think about it.  Not to be misleading -- Gainesville is a good big 2 1/2 hrs from Orlando, 3 from Disney.  But it is right near the Ocala National Forest for you camping types (not me *sigh*). 
 
But one of the morning topics this year is Heartworm Update:
 
[linkhttp://www.doce-conferences.ufl.edu/Dog/agenda.asp]http://www.doce-conferences.ufl.edu/Dog/agenda.asp[/link]
 
(And Dr. Clemmons, hero to many of us who know anything about spinal injuries, DM or seizure dogs) is speaking on herbal medicine, and Dr. Crissman (head of one of the other departments) is doing a table topic at night on Acupuncture.  And any of you who heard the national news article on the dog who had a skish ke bob skewer removed from it's heart -- Dr. Amara Estrada is doing a session on heart surgery. 
 
But I thot since the heartworm stuff is a "key" session I'd mention it.  You don't have to be a Florida resident and this is the University of Florida (GO GATORS). 
 
 

Wow,,,what a schedule!  Take notes Callie!!
Wouldn't it be nice to go to Florida for a vacation!!!!

I always do and they give HANDOUTS.  Seriously -- I've had folks decide to do exactly that -- a 2 day Floor-da vacation LOL.  They are unusual because they have so 'seen the light' to use integrated medicine.  It was Dr. Clemmons who got ME to try accupuncture (on me I mean!) when I had dinner with him several years ago like the first year we went to the Symposium.
 
Most of the vets who speak at the symposium do the "Entrees in Expertise" in the evening -- you get to sit and have dinner with the vet of your choice and pick their brain!!
 
They do a cat symposium on the same day and a lot of folks flow back and forth. 
 
now SOME day I'm gonna get to Tufts to their Symposium (that's  a 3 day one in October every year). 
 
The first year David went with me kinda just to "go with".  And now he looks forward to it as much as I do and if they are offering split sessions that we both think will be great we go to different sessions so we can trade notes!  last year I went to the First Aid session in the afternoon, but this year the afternoon is gonna be GOOD.

We will be expecting lots of new information Callie!!!    As if you don't give us enough now,,,,,,,,,lol!!!