Who knows about thyroid in a dog?

Just to be clear, I'm not taking about dane forums, I am talking about breeders ads for selling their puppies. About what the Great Dane Club of America suggests.

The Great Dane Lady has a list of what she calls quality breeders on her website, if you read them they tell us what they do to make sure you know you are getting a healthy puppy and thyroid is one of the tests.

If testing a young pup has not meaning, why is it so important to make sure its done before purchasing a pup?

So you guys can see what I mean, this came from Great Dane Outreach:

dyan

T4 1.8 lab range is 1.0 - 4.0

 FreeT4 Eleilibrium Dialysis  25.5   Lab range  8.0 - 40.0

TSH       .26         Lab range   0.0 - 0.6

 

Lab it notes: While many dogs with primary hypothyroidism have elevated cTSH concentrations, up to one third of affected dogs have normal or low cTSH concentrations, for reasons that are unclear.  In those cases where TSH concentrations are nomal and hypothyroidism is still strongly suspected, consider performing a free T4 and/or thyroidglobulin autoanitbidies.

  Dyan; since Jessie's senior panel that she had last Friday showed normal T4 but high TSH, I've been reading more about thyroid testing. This link has a thorough discussion about thyroid testing by four veterinary internists;

 sah-thyroid-roundtable.pdf (application/pdf Object)

  It's a long article but the best I've found on thyroid testing. According to the article, a high TSH is a good indicator of hypothyroidism,  and free T4 is the most accurate. Total T4 is considered a good screening test but isn't as reliable as the other values. My vet had a free T4 done and should call tomorrow with the results.

jessies_mom

It's a long article but the best I've found on thyroid testing. According to the article, a high TSH is a good indicator of hypothyroidism,  and free T4 is the most accurate. Total T4 is considered a good screening test but isn't as reliable as the other values. My vet had a free T4 done and should call tomorrow with the results.

Thanks Janice...let us know what you come up with when you get the results. I attempted it, but  I will read the article tomorrow morning when the beer I had at dinner wears off....lol! 

That said... .26 for Gibby TSH is rather low, and the 25.5 is pretty much in the middle...... if I am understanding this correctly.  

jessies_mom

 

 sah-thyroid-roundtable.pdf (application/pdf Object)

I did go and read it after all....you know, everything has an IF or BUT with it. There is no positives. Just like the human thyroid tests.... unless they have big time signs or readings. That article even says he is not in favor of testing seniors unless there is a reason..... and over weight is not a reason in his eyes.      It makes me know more than ever that Gibbys readings are pretty normal...and pretty much if he has any symptoms they are minor.....so will just go ahead and  plan to wait at least 6 months for another test.... unless of course he does develop syptoms that are more extreme.

dyan

 

Thanks Janice...let us know what you come up with when you get the results.

  The results came back today. The high cTSH that was the reason for further testing was part of Jessie's senior blood test that she gets every six months, and the lab that does those tests is Idexx. Her T4 on that test was normal. My vet sends the blood to Michigan State for full thyroid panels. They did a T3 and T4 auto antibody, a free T4 and a thyroglobulin auto antibody. According to my vet, they were all "right in the middle". So, she's not hypothyroid even though her cTSH was high.

Good Janice.....great for Jessie.  

I'm really thinking its pretty much of a waste to get Gibbys tested again before 6 months...   Does Jessie get her thyroid tested every 6 months in the senior checkup?

Have to say though...Gibbys feet are really messy, ugly red knuckes, he is not licking that much actually......but they look ugly. Don't know if he has most of the fur off and that is why they are so red or what. 

dyan

Does Jessie get her thyroid tested every 6 months in the senior checkup?

  I don't purposely have her thyroid tested every six months, but the T4 and cTSH are part of a comprehensive senior blood panel that my vet has done, which includes a full chemistry panel and a CBC. The results are three pages long. I'm happy to say that all other her values were normal, which isn't bad for a gal that's going to be 13 next month.

  Poor Gibby; I'm so sorry about his feet. Have you seen saliva staining on his feet? That's a way to tell if he's licking them. Jessie used to wait until we couldn't watch her, at night for example, and then lick her feet. I knew she was licking them because the places I was treating would improve during the day and then be worse the next morning. Putting MutLuks on her feet at night kept her from licking them and they healed faster. We tried putting a cone on her, but she would stand by our bed and stare at us, looking so sad, so we tried the boots and she tolerated them much better.

Thanks Janice!  You know... Gibby has learned to lick quietly..I must say....and he stares at me while doing it... so we watch him carefully.  Today for instance, I don't know if I saw him licking  then even once...but he licks his chest and other parts too...including you should see him licking my arm twice today......so I'm not sure if its a allergy thing or just a neurotic kind of thing.  I can not imagine him letting me put something on his feet without him getting them off.

erica1989

Majority of dogs do not have problems as young dogs. That's like saying all toddlers should be tested for diabetes, because some children develop juvenile diabetes.

I just popped in to catch up on this thread and spotted this response.  I agree with you in most cases, but in this case we are seeing a dog that is having skin issues,which can be symptomatic of thyroid issues, and not just any young dog where there would be no other obvious reason to test.  

dyan

again.........................having had a show dog in my Bubblegum....on a Dane forum that is made up mostly of Dane breeders or show people.....what is the point of advertising that the pups have been thryoid tested? 

While they may not have symptoms yet, it must show up, no?  Becasue why do it then?

Usually, this occurs in a breed where thyroid issues are considered to be prevalent.  The Great Dane Club suggests testing of breeding stock because this is an inherited problem: http://www.gdca.org/healthandwelfare.htm

spiritdogs

Usually, this occurs in a breed where thyroid issues are considered to be prevalent.  The Great Dane Club suggests testing of breeding stock because this is an inherited problem: http://www.gdca.org/healthandwelfare.htm

So with that in mind..the fact that Gibby comes from pure bred parents...his chance of having thyroid problems is pretty good which is why I originally said he was not tested as a baby, maybe now is the time.

TWO OF MY GOLDEN RETRIEVERS HAVE HAD LOW THYROID  AND THEIR "CASES" WERE AS DIFFERENT AS DAYLIGHT AND DARK, EVEN THO FULL BROTHERS (DIFFERENT LITTERS).

sCOOTER WAS DIAGNOSED ABOUT THE TIME HE TURNED 4.  HE HAD A SUDDEN A DRASTIC WEIGHT GAIN, HIS FUR STARTED FEELING COARSE AND GETTING THIN, HE SEEMED TO HAVE LOST SO MUCH ENERGY, AND SUDDENLY HE STARTED GROWLING AT THE BOYS IN THE NEXT YARDE.  HOWEVER, THEY ARE TERROS AND I FIGURED THEY WRE TORMENTING HIM.

 WHEN DIAGNOSED HE WAS PUT ON L.8 SOLOXINE TWICE A DAY AND ON DIET DOG FOOD.  WEIGHT CAME OFF, FUR GREW BACK THICK AND SOFT, HE "RELIKED" THE BOYS NEXT DOOR AND COULD HUNT ALL DAY LONG, LONG SWIMS AFTER CRIPPLED DUCKS, ETC.  sADLY WE LOST HIM TO HEART ATTACK A LITTLE OVER A YEAR LATER JUST 2 MONTHS PAST HIS 5TH BIRTDAHY.

 bUCK WAS A LITTLE PAST 10 WHEN WE GOT HIS DIAGNOSIS, AND IT WAS CAUGHT IN A PREDENTAL BLOOD WORK.  HE HAD NOT SHOWN A SINGLE SYMPTON.  HIS FUR WAS THICK, SOFT, GLOSSSY, NO WEIGHT GAIN AT ALL, NO CHANGE IN TEMPERAMENT, AND HE ALWAYS TROTTED RATHER THAN WALKED EXCEPT WHEN ON LEASH.  HE RAN PLAYED AND WITH KAYCEE AND HONEY, CHASED SQUIRRELS. NOT ONE HINT OF LOW THYROID AND MY VET AND I WERE TAKEN BY TOTAL SURPRISE.

HIS THYROID WAS SO LOW THAT RICKEY PUT THE DENTAL OFF.  BUCK WAS  1 1/2 TIMES THE AMOUNT OF SOLOXINE THAT SCOOTER HAD BEEN.  SINCE THERE HAD NEVER BEEN A SYMPTON ONE, THERE WAS NO WAY OF TELLING  OF "IMPROVEMENT" EXCEPT THRU BLOOD WORK.  HIS THYROID WAS NORMLA ON HIS FIRST CHECK AFTER BEING ON THE MEDS.  WE LOST HIM TO HEART ATTACK MORE THAN 2 YEARS LATER AT AGE 12 YRS. 3 MONTHS.

SO, FULL BROTHERS, DIFFERENT LITTERS, BOTH WITH LOW THYROID--SCOOTERS SHOWOING UP AT AGE 4 WITH ALL SYMPTONS, BUCKS SHOWING UP AT AGE 10 WITHOUT A SINGLE SYMPTOM.  BOTH DIED OF HEART ATTACKS, SCOOTER AT 5YR 2 MNTHS, BUCK AT 12 YRS. 3 MONTHS.

ALSO, GOLDENS IS ANOTHER BREED WHERE "LOW NORMAL" NEANS THEY ACTUALLY HAVE LOW THYROID.  WE HAE SEVEAL ON THE GOLDEN FORUMS WHO TESTED LOW NORMAL, BUT ARE ON MEDS AND ARE DOING MUCH BETTER.

GOOD LUCK DYAN, I SURE HOP YOU GET THE ANSWER.

Thank you Sandra....appreciate your input.  Yes...I will have Gibbys checked again after the holidays, maybe call our old vet about it...she probably wouldn't object to me having it sent where I want it sent, as I'm afraid our regular vet will give me a bad time.  Of course nothing new...since I worked for them they always gave me a bad time when I refused free vaccines and didn't get Gibby neutered until he was almost 9 months old.