licking and biting

dyan

So this would mean if its not food allergy but rather something outside such as grass, ragweed, etc etc... it causing yeast! 

*most* allergies are atopic (outside/inhaled type allergies). 

But yeast will grow **anywhere** it is a moist, warm environment **particularly** when the tissue is irritated.  So when he licks he sets it up for *more* yeast, but between toes, in ears, skin folds -- those are all prime targets for yeast any time, but particularly when the tissue itself is irritated because of the underlying allergy problem. 

Dog allergies come *out* on the skin -- particularly ears and skin folds or irritated tissues like the feet.    Pollen will stick to his skin when he's outside (and they walk thru everything) and as the allergens sink thru the skin, the feet, in particular, will itch  from the prickling caused by the allergens/histamine resonse in the feet in particular.

When their feet are being bothered by allergies, it is apparently *very* similar to how you feel when you've set on your foot too long and it prickles from lack of circulation.  Apparently a very similar (and uncomfortable) sensation and they try to lick it away)

  Dyan; The way my vet explained it to me is that malassezia yeast is always on the skin, but the pH of the skin keeps it in check. In dogs, allergies change the pH of the skin and that allows the yeast to increase. As Callie said, the moisture from licking and chewing helps yeast to grow too. There are areas of a dog's body that have a higher concentration of mast cells, including the feet, groin, armpits, face, ears, and elbows. Mast cells leak histamine, causing those areas to itch in an allergic dog.

  In people, large numbers of mast cells are located in the respiratory system, which is why we sneeze and have a runny nose.

Really good explanation Janice

calliecritturs

Really good explanation Janice

Today must have REALLY been good him...we were at my sisters house that has a big yard...Gibby loves to go there and run and run and run. 

He has areas even on his face where the fur is thin... ( since last year this time )   Thinking about getting his thyroid checked.

That would be a GOOD thing -- but please either have it sent to Michigan State or to Dr. Dodds -- he's a dane and that means it's specific.  He could almost exhibit signs of both hypo and hyper thyroid (and both can cause bad skin) --

Luna was SO skinny I could NOT keep weight on her so I really didn't think she was low thyroid (but she was so nervous I worried it might be high).

Lo and behold it comes back LOW!  But being supplemented has helped settle her down **and** it's leveled her weight out incredibly well.  It's not hugely 'low' and a regular thyroid panel wasn't showing it. 

dyan

Janet :  

Maybe neurotic, but maybe he just liked the salt on your skin.

I'm sure the salt is good. But as I said, one day I had his collar laying on the carpeted steps ( I take it off him when we are not home ) I had to run to get a blood test, and when I came home he had licked the metel buckle so much that the whole red collar was wet and it faded on the white carpet.  He must have been licking it the whole time I was gone which was probably just about an hour or so.    Now when I try to tell him not to lick his feet he starts on his chest...which he does lick on and off anyway.  Of course he usually has food on it..lol!        I will check out your link and thank you!

Ann: Having Ollie that had such major skin problems I have read so much and between that and his skin doctor who also said that very few dogs are allergic to food. Worst part is most are allergic to things you can't do anything about such as Ollie who was allergic to grass and dust. Ha....my two grown sons lived together,,how much dust do you think was in THAT house?  LOL!     I do believe that last late summer he was having problems, but nothing that I ever considered an allergy thing....perhaps it was and this year its worse.   Also.......since he is a hyper dog..it does'nt help at all.   

I did read that licking themselves is an anxiety thing also...and knowing him, how can I not think about that factor?   

Today we are suppsed to go to a golf outing, he will be here much of the day by himself, having someone come here to feed him lunch. I will be back after golf for a while and then gone for the cook out. I worry about him spending the day licking himself.

It's true that allergies to environmental things are more common than food allergies, but heck, if you knew, or even suspected, that he was allergic to grain mold, wouldn't that be a reason to get him off the Nutro and on to a grain-free food?  If you knew he was allergic to leaf mold, you could try to put him in a kennel with a paved bottom with a tarp over top, and not in one that has three trees overhanging it.  If you don't know what is causing the problem you can't solve it.  And, sure licking can be due to anxiety - but itching can make dogs anxious, too!  The most common allergens are plants/grasses, dust mites, mold, grain mold, chicken (some dogs develop sensitivity to the protein source in their food, even if they've been eating it for years) soy, gluten...  Here's a neat little article with some hints that almost everyone can do to help a dog that has some kind of unidentified allergy: http://www.allergicpet.com/dog_allergies.html 

spiritdogs

if you knew, or even suspected, that he was allergic to grain mold, wouldn't that be a reason to get him off the Nutro and on to a grain-free food? 

You know...I had him on grain free Taste of the Wild before putting him on Nutro for sensitive skin and stomach...he did not do well on what he was on. Before that he was on California Natural limited ingredient.....................but he was not doing well on them and is doing the best on his current food.

dyan

Before that he was on California Natural limited ingredient.....................but he was not doing well on them and is doing the best on his current food

  Same with Jessie; she had a lot of gas and problems with her stools on the California Natural. 

spiritdogs

It's true that allergies to environmental things are more common than food allergies, but heck, if you knew, or even suspected, that he was allergic to grain mold, wouldn't that be a reason to get him off the Nutro and on to a grain-free food? 

 Wouldn't the mold be killed in the cooking process?

jessies_mom

Wouldn't the mold be killed in the cooking process?

The mold doesn't have to be alive to trigger an allergic response.  Same thing with stuff like peanuts.  Even a trace of peanut butter can trigger a deadly response in people who are very allergic to peanuts. 

jessies_mom

There are areas of a dog's body that have a higher concentration of mast cells, including the feet, groin, armpits, face, ears, and elbows. Mast cells leak histamine, causing those areas to itch in an allergic dog.

You know...he has nothing on his underside at all.... this is mainly on his feet and really when you look at it....looks like the tops of his feet...not inside of his toes or pads....and he has some by one of his back ankes...its just pink...but that said, its probably mostly skin color but he has licked the fur off.   They checked his ears and he had nothing in them....they swabbed them. But I had just used the meds that he got in early spring because he was kind of scratching a bit at his ears and they didn't smell all too good.

I just wonder if its allergies or if by chance some chemicals from the grass or is it just because he LOVES to lick his feet, chew on his nails..especially his back nails..... he loves to do it at night before bed. 

Todays Free Kibble question ( hope everyone here does Free Kibble site as we do for Animal Rescue site daily ) reminds me of Gibby, the question is : 

Summer's ended and kids have gone back to school (: What are signs that this may be really hard for their dogs?

Answer choices are 1. pace 2. bark all day  3. Chew and lick    Kind of adds to my thought that this licking is more of a stress thing for Gibby..just because he is so high strung.  Got to thinking... he doesn't lick all night,  he does it at certain times.... like always seems to be grooming himself in AM after breakfast and when he first gets into bed at night,,,but he gets carried away...and won't stop.   Now when we put his ointments on his feet he is TOTALLY neurotic about it...wanst to lick twice as much... not just the ointment but while we are doing it...have to kind of keep his head away and he is licking the heck out of my hand.   I mean I walk away from it soaked...drool running off my hand.  I just wonder how much it is allergy or his behavior.

janet_rose

The mold doesn't have to be alive to trigger an allergic response. 

  If that's the case, then I guess people who are allergic to grain mold should avoid cereal, bread, pasta? 

dyan

ow when we put his ointments on his feet he is TOTALLY neurotic about it...wanst to lick twice as much... not just the ointment but while we are doing it...have to kind of keep his head away and he is licking the heck out of my hand.  

  When Jessie had problems with her feet, I put Animax on the red places, and she would always try to lick it off. At night or other times when I couldn't watch her, I put booties on her feet to keep he from licking it off. That being said, it does sound like Gibby's licking may be because he's anxious. Maybe you could try offering him a rawhide or something else to chew at times when he starts licking his paws.

jessies_mom

When Jessie had problems with her feet, I put Animax on the red places, and she would always try to lick it off. At night or other times when I couldn't watch her, I put booties on her feet to keep he from licking it off. That being said, it does sound like Gibby's licking may be because he's anxious. Maybe you could try offering him a rawhide or something else to chew at times when he starts licking his paws.

Yeah.... I can just imagine how long Gibby would allow anything on his feet.....HHHmmm!  Remember trying to put a sock on Ollie once because of a torn nail....he wouldn't walk on it, walked on 3 legs until he pulled it off.  I had the same idea with a bone...but how many bones can I give him?   I am not a lover of rawhides...but might just get a few to keep him busy...   Also it was suggested to dab tee tree oil on his feet with a Q-tip when he starts licking....

Tomorrow he is going to Camp Bow Wow hopefully to play..... just to keep him busy for a few hours.