Bloat Study (Cautions included!)

Sera_J

was wondering what the prevailing thoughts on this subject was in other breeds prone to this disorder.  Because, you can take another deep chested breed, such as the Pointer.... and they really don't have bloat to speak of in them, it *must* have a genetic component.

It might be interesting to look at the TEMEPRAMENTS across the board, of dogs that bloat IME it is somewhat relevant. I have known plentyof highly strung, hyper alert, anxious, worry-ful, or overly active dogs of various breeds...to bloat. In addition to familial components this must be considered. Are Weims in general, more active, busy dogs than your typical English Pointer? I dunno...so I ask. LOL!

I also think that since smaller dogs regardless of feeding habits (and small breeds can ALSO be deep chested, like Iggies, Staffy's, BT's, many other Terriers, and even Beagles relevant to their body size and leg length)...seldom seem to bloat...perhaps the overall physical LENGTH of the digestive tracts or SIZE of the actual stomach and it's capacity really hold some interest?

Many avenues one could ponder on the subject. I find it more interesting to look at why a given breed or individual DOES NOT bloat rather than why those that bloat, do so. Sometimes you have to look at things that way to get a fresh perspective.

The dog that died of cancer currently has nearly 4000 progeny (so his progeny, or progeny of his progeny....) listed on the database.  Those are *just* people who entered their dogs online and uploading a picture (real number could be double or more).

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=341400&p=progeny-pictures

I do not breed and don't plan to, so luckily I am not forced to put so much thought into these things, but honestly bloat scares me more than some of our other polygenic problems.  A GSD can live to be 14 and even be a working dog with hip dysplasia, and some disorders like EPI or thyroid problems are fairly easily regulated with medication, but if a dog bloats and lives, that dog is *always* going to be at risk of bloating, and every time there is a high risk of it being fatal.  I personally would be super hesitant to use a dog that has bloated or has it in his lines.  Also in GSDs, it is not really recorded and measured.  We use the a-stamp system for hip scores.  A dog is born the average of his parents.  Once he submits his own films to the SV, that number may change.  The number changes constantly and is influenced by family members.  Numbers are re-calculated 4 times a year.  We know HD is polygenic so it's not as simple as just breeding the lowest hip scores and expecting good results, but at least there is *something* for comparison, some measurable value that takes into account a dog's relatives and progeny.  There's nothing like that with bloat (or anything else, really).  It's hard to begin to understand when there's hardly any actual data to work with, just anecdotal evidence.

 Gina - it is thought that it's not so much nervous dogs that bloat, but HOW those nervous dogs display their anxiety, so less temperament and more likely behavior.  With that said, if you are breeding nervous dogs that's pretty much a no-no, I don't think any breed calls for a freaky dog... so, that's already breaking the code of ethics.  So, dogs that bark obsessively, howl, pant and generally freak out will be more prone to swallowing air and bloating than one who, let's say, shuts down.  Then comes in the "chicken or the egg" syndrome.... is it temperament or a physical problem? I know of a young dog that recently bloated and died, while trying to save him they got into his intestines and found out that there was a birth defect and they had not formed properly, which was what caused him to bloat.  This dog apparently also had separation anxiety.  Was the health problems causing the dog to be nervous? Or was it just a coincident that this was a sickly dog that had a nervous temperament?  Anyway, food for thought!

 From what I've gathered Pointers and Weims should have a similar energy level, but around the house, I have no idea. I hear Pointers are couch-holder-downers.... but, then, so are Weims! (*IF* they are properly exercised! :)  Personally, when I neuter Logan in a few years I will have his stomach tacked and have recommended the same to anyone with a Weim who asks my opinion.

 Liesje - wow. 4000+ dogs. .... that's an unbelievable number!!  I'm not sure I think it was a good idea to breed that many animals to this one stud.  Gina, thoughts on that?

 Bejou, isn't T-Bone pretty young yet?  He could still fill-out a lot.  Lies, aren't GSD's pretty late to mature?  And he's neutered?  Anyway - that's a responsible breeder.  I absolutely respect that.

T-Bone will be two on July 5th, is intact, and he does have some filling out left to do. His parents were both leggier though and while I expect him to bulk up I don't think he'll ever be a tank of a dog like some lines and he's pretty finely boned too. (Also while T-Bone remains intact, he will never, ever be bred. Because of his breed I want to be sure not to mess with his growth and I feel he will still fill out. I am very responsible and will NOT let my dog breed, ever, period. Not only is breeding against my contract but I am not anywhere near that experienced)