Beyond Cesar Millan

Been there, done that, read that. Great read for those who think a dog's psyche is worse than the one from a butterfly. Funny why this page does not include thoughts from some of the more than 100 people who appeared on the 100th episode to tell him thanks because their dogs are better now.

One word simplifies this web page. Agenda

I would consider this person the Perez Hilton of the dog world. Nothing better to do than to bash people around.

Hey, i dont really like Jean Donaldson or Jan Fennell (who thinks every single dog is dominant), but not because of that i would be spending countless hours talking bad about them, even less making a web page to try to convince people to think like me.

People making those type of web pages and promoting them (not talking about any body in specific) bring pure "negative attitude" into the world, actions speak louder than words, complainers are lame. I think only those with a weak and ultimately untenable position will resort to excess moderation and censorship when someone expresses an opinion that is not in line with their approved way of thinking.

To all those complainers i would say: Stop complaining and use that time to go out and help a dog instead

Lets provide another link, this is a forum that belongs to the Cesar Millan website, sure, you will find a lot of followers BUT these are REAL people expressing how these techniques actually helped them. We so far have one side of the spectrum, let's provide the other side to be fair.

How Cesar helped me:

http://community.sessionswithcesar.com/forums/907.aspx

Could we convince these real dog owners that is a "lie" when they feel they have a better dog now? Or the "haters" should continue to cover their ears and sing "la la la" while trying to keep convincing themselves that those people are wrong?

One word simplifies your post. Agenda.

This was meant for the people who want to read about this point of view in a central location, and not for the people who, predictably, will jump to the defense of their idol. 

I usually walk away from these, but this morning I am feeling.....adventurous.

One word simplifies your post. Agenda.

This was meant for the people who want to read about this point of view in a central location, and not for the people who, predictably, will jump to the defense of their idol. 

Who wants to read it? Why should someone whether they like CM or not, not have access to the answer post? Why is one so important and not the other? Why title this what you did IF YOU DID NOT EXPECT A NEGATIVE RESPONSE?

Cause you did, you are many things but naive is not one of them.

It is real simple, the first post is part of one persons personal agenda, the second post is someone else's view on the first post. And since it is not the same view as the first person, it is suspect by the poster to the point that the first poster must resort to pushing aside any statement that repudiates it. Which of course is what the second poster lives for.

Because I feel that people who want other's to change to their point of view need to be a lot more forgiving and tolerant of others. You can stand there and say that CM is the devil until the cows come home. *Edited*

And for the record I think the baiting first post caught exactly what it deserved.

ta-ta

I think CM's biggest contribution to mankind was definitely that South Park episode.  I laughed so hard I cried and nearly peed myself.

Anyway, just trying to inject a little humor....

I'd guess the reasoning behind juxtaposing themselves specifically w/ Cesar is because he is the one in the spotlight with the popular TV show.  Even though I do not find any of his methods or psychological theories in any way original, the general public attribute those methods and buzzwords to him.

I enjoy humor! And I am not a South Park fan, I will go watch it though.

Truley

I enjoy humor! And I am not a South Park fan, I will go watch it though.

I'm not really into those kinds of shows either but it's hilarious.  CM comes over and shows him how to use his techniques on an unruly child.

Truley

 

I usually walk away from these, but this morning I am feeling.....adventurous.

One word simplifies your post. Agenda.

This was meant for the people who want to read about this point of view in a central location, and not for the people who, predictably, will jump to the defense of their idol. 

Who wants to read it? Why should someone whether they like CM or not, not have access to the answer post? Why is one so important and not the other? Why title this what you did IF YOU DID NOT EXPECT A NEGATIVE RESPONSE?

Cause you did, you are many things but naive is not one of them.

It is real simple, the first post is part of one persons personal agenda, the second post is someone else's view on the first post. And since it is not the same view as the first person, it is suspect by the poster to the point that the first poster must resort to pushing aside any statement that repudiates it. Which of course is what the second poster lives for.

Because I feel that people who want other's to change to their point of view need to be a lot more forgiving and tolerant of others. You can stand there and say that CM is the devil until the cows come home. *Edited*

And for the record I think the baiting first post caught exactly what it deserved.

ta-ta

 

 

 

 

Actually, I was *not* baiting, and was really trying to, perhaps too pointedly, try to keep this from being another of "those" threads.  No, I am not naive - however, aside from the fact that I know some people will always travel the CM idolatry highway, I really want people to read that site, because it provides the names of trainers and behaviorists whose work the general public might never otherwise become familiar with.  I think Liesje is quite correct that CM has a bully pulpit that others don't have, and I think it's fine for someone to post to tell them where to find information that tells the other side of the story.  If you want to make this in to something else, you won't get any more rebuttals from me - after this, hopefully respectful, rebuttal, I'm not going to respond.  I'll let the web site speak for itself.

spiritdogs

One word simplifies your post. Agenda.

spiritdogs

I think it's fine for someone to post to tell them where to find information that tells the other side of the story.

I'm confused   so is my first post ok or not ok?

Liesje

I think CM's biggest contribution to mankind was definitely that South Park episode.  I laughed so hard I cried and nearly peed myself.

I think you have it just right Liesje.

We have to learn about CM's great marketing skills and learn from them so that we can market our POV better. Humour drops more barriers than all of our serious and probably quite pompus carry ons.

When i was much younger and more radical, i remember reading about a USA activist whose name escapes me, and i was impressed. He regarded protests as being pointless, and i felt somehwat deflated having being on more than my fair share of protests.

He looked for weaknesss, things that could seem humouros that could be used to change things.I remember an example of a USA department store chain that  woudln't hire Blacks, so he organised for them to buy products on i think seven day approval, and of course to return them on the seventh day. Bogged the store right up, initiated the change.

It is things like this that we need to look at.

I had a humorous thought to get people into positive training. Show someone treat training their dog to use the toilet. Next scene, show the human waiting outside the bathroom while the dog finishes and the human is saying, "Are you done, yet? I need some time in there, too." Moral of the story, becareful what you reinforce.

Thankyouverymuch (wishing I had an Elvis smiley.)

I love that site.  I pass it on to anyone who touts the supposed greatness of Cesar.  I'm glad it's out there.  Someone has to counter his "techniques" (such as they are).  He's too well known and too much of a force thanks to his TV show and the likes of Oprah.