Why do people get judged when asking a breeding question????

 Firstly, because most of them are DUMB questions- questions that a person should know BEFORE they breed their dogs. Things that a responsible breeder/owner would be asking their mentor or vet LONG before there was a bitch being bred, a litter on the way, or a puppy that wouldn't eat on the ground.

Secondly, because most of htem have been answered before- or could be answered by a quick search of google- or are the type of question that should be asked, again, of a vet or mentor- not an anonymous board on the internet.  

If you mean questions about breeding? I don't think, generally, people are horrible about those, but yeah, you will get REALLY detailed answers about how to do it right.  

I have no problem with breeding for a purpose - working dog, show dogs, etc. Or breeding to IMPROVE the breed - for ligit reasons, not just colors and things.

I have a HUGE problem with people breeding just because they can. Careless accidents, oops litters, and commerical breeders get to me, they really just do.

When you've gone into a puppy mill - you tend to see things differently. When you've handled those dogs right after, scrubbing them to try and get some of the urine off, you can't help but wish people wouldn't breed. I work in a shelter, I have for several years. The numbers of animals going in and out is astonishing. You would not believe the number of people surrendering pups because their dogs had a litter, and they couldn't get rid of all the dogs.

 Most of the negative responses are to people who know nothing about breeding and decide to do it for reasons that some of us do "judge" as being stupid and irresponsible.  Just because you make sure all the pups have a "good home" to go to doesn't mean it's a good or smart thing to do.  Some people respond who are involved in a particular breed and feel strongly about the strength and quality of that breed continuing and casual owners of a dog with relatively unknown origins or lines breeding dogs with uncertain health, temperament and physical issues screws not only those lines up but also the public perception of that breed and makes things tougher for breeders who do things more carefully, thoughtfully and responsibly.

Yes, everyone is entitled to ask a question, and the questions should be answered or addressed in a respectful way, per forum rules.  But certain issues are going to stir debate, and if you wish you could post a question and only get the answers you're looking for, then why ask the question in the first place?  You're obviously not looking for information, you're looking for people to pat you on the back and tell you you're right.

If you notice, there are not people posting questions here who are experienced breeders of quality dogs.  There's a reason for that.  Responsible, experienced breeders don't learn what they know on the Internet from strangers.  They typically learn through close association and mentoring from someone else in the breed, who is physically close to them and can help them learn and get them through their first couple of litters.  They've typically assisted with other breeders during breeding and whelping so they could learn before they try to attempt it on their own.  If you don't have that type of support system and involvement in the breed, you shouldn't be breeding in the first place.

JMHO. 

I think that if you are going to bring more dogs into the world, you owe it to them and their future family to do what you can to avoid genetic diseases and health and temperament issues. If you are not well educated in your breed with a good working knowledge of genetics, temperament, socialization, and health issues, then there is no way you can breed to avoid those problems and maximize the puppies potential.

I've heard it said that every person carries on average seven genes for genetic defects or disease. (luckily most are not expressed) I'm sure dogs have just as many if not more. People who breed their pet dogs because "they are perfectly healthy" without doing research on bloodlines and their breed are just burying their heads in the sand.

If you are asking breeding advice here, then you obviously do not know enough to be breeding dogs. If someone asks general questions I do try to educate them rather than just slamming them. That does no good at all. If your first words to a person are confrontational, then they immediately go on the defensive and stop hearing what you are saying.

I do think that many of the responses on this board are sadly lacking in tact and actually do more harm than good.

I am looking for information. I can deal with people telling me I'm wrong or thinking I am. You're entitled to your own opinion. I just wanted to know what other people think about it.

Looking for what kind of information? If you were a bit more specific - I'm sure you would get the answers you are looking for.

Are you looking to bred the new dog you're getting? What are you trying to get at here?

I personally don't care whether or not someone is breeding for money. I DO care about the MILLIONS of dogs who are homeless. Dogs who's potential homes are taken away by 'accidental' litters. I guess it's hard to imagine if your dog was never homeless, but when I look over at my mutt, who is now fat, happy, and seizure-free, and think about him when he was a flea-infested, underweight stray living on the streets, it makes me want to cry. And THOSE breedings - the 'oops' litters, the 'omgz-Fifi's-the-best-dog-ever-I-want-her-puppy!'s, - take away homes from dogs who already don't have them.

Well, it's not right of me but I do judge them.  Right off in fact, I'm thinking, why wasn't the dog spayed or neutered to begin with as that is good animal husbandry and shows me a responsible owner.  In my mind, if they didn't have the money for a spay or a neuter they certainly aren't prepared to bring a few more dogs into the world and care for them as they should be.  And, if they wanted this, they should of researched (at the very least, I won't even go into how they shouldn't be doing it at all) before hand and therefore would of had no need to post a question they should of already known the answer too.  In my mind, it's not just about the puppies and the breeding but you'd think they'd want to really be sure the mom, the current pet, the dog they are supposed to love enough to breed would be OK. 

I've noticed the posts from people who in one post say they don't have much money.  In the next, they want another dog.  Or teenagers who live at home, breeding dogs or getting more dogs.  It's just irresponsible and that's just some of the stuff I've read on here lately. 

Added--I also want to post on behalf of Willow--a back yard bred dog.  They didn't know what they were doing when they bred her parents--who should NOT have been bred, they had health issues and behavioral issues.  And, despite the fact that at this point Willow gets the best of everything she still suffers quite often from her anxiety and bowel issues, urinary crystals, seborrhea-- more than any dog should.  This is the viewpoint I see this topic from every day.

Mechanical Angel

I'd like to hear other people's views on this as I know this won't go down well with everyone as we all have our own opinions.

I think the reacurring frusteration over this topic stems from the fact that "having two dogs mate dosnt make you a breeder"

Its more acceptable for humans to breed then figure out what to do about it and how to go about it. But in the canine world the most critical precautions are taken prior to the breeding. So even though the so called "breeders" asking questions here have good intentions the most critical times for planning is already lost and could have been avoided very easily by doing some research.

I think the passion for avid dog enthusiasts get the best of us sometimes because a lot of us put so much work, love, and dedication to preserving our breed even if that means spay/neutering them.

Many times our love for our dogs tempts us to want to see what kind of offspring they would produce but one look at the local shelters wipes that thought away real fast. Endless stories of abuse and BYB's leave a huge impression. It takes more strength to refrain from breeding and leave it to the experts.  I mean REALLy how many puppies are born with the intention of ending up in shelters, abused or homeless? Thats comical to think about especially when you look at the amount of abused or shelter dogs.There are countless familes who have dedicated decades, generations even inherit the knowledge of the chosen breed to help preserve it set to standard........only for Joe Scmoe to try and make a cockapoo, LOL

Its a sensitive subject for any true dog fancier!

BCMixs

If you notice, there are not people posting questions here who are experienced breeders of quality dogs.  There's a reason for that.  Responsible, experienced breeders don't learn what they know on the Internet from strangers.  They typically learn through close association and mentoring from someone else in the breed, who is physically close to them and can help them learn and get them through their first couple of litters.  They've typically assisted with other breeders during breeding and whelping so they could learn before they try to attempt it on their own.  If you don't have that type of support system and involvement in the breed, you shouldn't be breeding in the first place.

Oh please don't make nature a rocket science exercise.  I do my part for the shelter dog by fostering.  I have purchased puppies from petshops.  I have purchased my Danes from a family who advertised in the local paper.  I've adopted Danes in shelters.  I will continue to do all this.  One day I hope to experience puppies being born and also raising puppies.  Maybe when I retire.  If I have questions, I will ask and I know forum members will respond.

BCMixs

 Most of the negative responses are to people who know nothing about breeding and decide to do it for reasons that some of us do "judge" as being stupid and irresponsible.  Just because you make sure all the pups have a "good home" to go to doesn't mean it's a good or smart thing to do.  Some people respond who are involved in a particular breed and feel strongly about the strength and quality of that breed continuing and casual owners of a dog with relatively unknown origins or lines breeding dogs with uncertain health, temperament and physical issues screws not only those lines up but also the public perception of that breed and makes things tougher for breeders who do things more carefully, thoughtfully and responsibly.

That is what really gets me.  I generally sit on my hands when someone wants to breed their "really nice" cocker spaniel to their neighbor's "really cute" poodle, but it tends to hit home when it involves one of my own breeds.

Pit bulls--only 1 in 400 pit bulls ends up in a good home.  *Very* few people are qualified to be breeding them IMHO, and if you (collective) need to ask advice on a message board on breeding dogs, then you are not one of those people.  Is that harsh?  Probably.  Do you know what is more harsh?  The fact that these dogs are being put down at alarming rates at shelters, being abused at a higher rate than most breeds, and are being legislated out of existence while idiots who care more about their image and wallet are churning out more and more "rare" blue, white, and brindle pups.  Pretty much every pit I know has some sort of skin/allergy issue (something that is generally genetic).   Sally (my pit/pit mix) can't have wheat or sunflower oil.

 
Labs--everyone knows these dogs are just the "perfect" family dog so few people bother to research the lines they are getting a pup out of.  Many people are not prepared for the amount of energy and exuberance these dogs have or the mental stimulation they require.  They fail to think about the fact that even a smallish lab can wipe out a toddler with a swipe of the tail.  There are a large number of adolescent labs in shelters and rescue because someone got the pup from a neighbor who bred their lab without bothering to do any research on what they were getting.  Even worse is the health issues that can be associated with the breed.  A frightening amount of BYBs decide that is the vet says the dog looks healthy, then they don't have to bother with the health tests.  I got my lab from a good breeder who did screenings, and he still developed elbow dysplasia which has cost us somewhere around $2000 all together, required surgery, physical therapy, and requires him to be on a special diet and supplements to keep him from being in pain.  Although mine is allergy free, I know many labs that have allergy issues.  Hip dysplasia is also extremely common in the breed.  We are now starting to see temperament issues with labs.  These things stem from "breeders" who do not know what they are doing and/or just want to make a profit, want to have their kids see a birth, want a pup from their dog, etc.

Honestly, if you want to learn about breeding I would start with doing *lots* of research.  Not just talking to people on the internet, but actual research.  Get to know your breed inside and out.  Learn from people who have forgotten more about the breed then most people will ever know.  Read every book on you breed and breeding in general that you can get you hands on.  Get involved in your breed.    

DPU

BCMixs

If you notice, there are not people posting questions here who are experienced breeders of quality dogs.  There's a reason for that.  Responsible, experienced breeders don't learn what they know on the Internet from strangers.  They typically learn through close association and mentoring from someone else in the breed, who is physically close to them and can help them learn and get them through their first couple of litters.  They've typically assisted with other breeders during breeding and whelping so they could learn before they try to attempt it on their own.  If you don't have that type of support system and involvement in the breed, you shouldn't be breeding in the first place.

Oh please don't make nature a rocket science exercise. 

If this were just "nature" that were were talking about then we wouldn't have man made breeds.  You would not have danes, labs, goldens, GSDs, etc.  They would all look like the half feral dogs of the Dominican Republic, Bahamas, etc.  Nature aims to breed the individuals that are best suited for survival in their natural environment.  Humans tend to have a different agenda. 

IMHO, temperament and health are the two most important things, and yes, genetics are involved here.  Of course it is not too difficult to get two dogs together and have them breed (unless they are of a breed that cannot even do that on their own), but making sure the pups are going to be able to have the best start possible does involve some understanding of breeding.  If it were that easy, then we wouldn't have dogs with temperament issues or health issues, especially on the scale that we do.

Pretty much anyone who breeds anything successfully--dogs, horses, cattle, etc, will tell you that there is a bit of science involved.  My 85 year old Grandpa, who used to breed beef cattle and never set foot in a college classroom will tell you that you have to understand genetics and how things are passes along from parents to calves if you want to be successful.   

Mechanical Angel

I think it's terrible how under a dog section here that you can't ask a breeding question without half the people answering thinking your a bad person.

I don't think forum members are judging folks as "bad" people.  Breeding is just such a sensitive topic that people must show sufficient knowledge before forum members will consider them good breeders.

Knowledgeable breeders are usually more than happy to show that they know what they are doing.  They understand the issues and know what differentiates them from BYBers.  This forum is free advertising for the good breeders!!  They can put their kennel name in their signature, so people can contact them anytime they want.

If someone billed themselves as an explosive expert, but asked how to make gunpowder, wouldn't you go "Huh???"  That is the quality of a lot of the breeding questions that are asked here. 

When people talk about getting a puppy, we try to be sure that they are not getting talked into a puppy that could cause them a lot of heartache because the breeder didn't know what he/she was doing.  After you have cried multiple times with dog/puppy owners as they watch helplessly as their pets die or as they make the decision to let their pet go, you start to get really fed up with those poor breeders.

One forum breeder bred a male to a much smaller female and allowed the male to tie multiple times over 3 weeks.  Not only could the oldest pups have been too large for the female to deliver, but other pups could have been up to 3 weeks premature.  The breeder was urged to spay her pet immediately, but didn't want to do that.  Never did find out if the female survived this very high risk pregnancy.

If someone comes on this board and says that they want to learn about how to breed, we can give them lots of on-line material and lots of books.  If someone says "Yikes, I recently bought a dog and didn't know she was already pregnant.  Help!!", forum members will supply lots of info. 

Owners who have "oops" litters and who are kicking themselves, are mildly scolded and given advice on how to avoid having the same thing happen again (no, neutering is not always the answer).  After that their questions are answered by forum members so they can make educated decisions.

The only way to find out if breeders know what they are doing or if prospective puppy owners are getting a healthy pup, is to ask lots of questions.  Not everyone knows how to do that politely and tactfully (especially in writing over the Internet), but the goal is healthy dogs - not to be judgemental.

janet_rose

One forum breeder bred a male to a much smaller female and allowed the male to tie multiple times over 3 weeks.  Not only could the oldest pups have been too large for the female to deliver, but other pups could have been up to 3 weeks premature.  The breeder was urged to spay her pet immediately, but didn't want to do that.  Never did find out if the female survived this very high risk pregnancy.

Because you are very knowlegeable, I am sure that you would want me to explain the error in the above statement. ;o)

All puppies in a litter are the same age. The timing of the breedings matter only in that there be viable sperm present on the day the female is fertile. All the eggs produced ovulate on the same day. Then the eggs take three days to mature and be ready for fertilization. Then the eggs are only viable for one day. If there is sperm present at that time all the eggs will be fertilized pretty much on the same day.

The reason that breedings that happen at widely different points in the cycle can produce puppies is that sperm can survive in the uterus for a week or more.

I really need to copy the above info and put it somewhere for easy reference, so I can just cut and paste. I seem to post this same info over and over. Maybe this means that nobody reads my posts... :-(