AIHA or IMHA

No, I didn't use it every day -- Billy took Prilosec for stomach protectant (and he took it TWICE a day -- which it not typically done).  The stomach protectant question is HUGE -- it's one of the most frequently debated things, and always is up for grabs.  Prilosec is pricey.  But it worked.

We ALSO used some Chinese herbs (one that is available online called "Calm Stomach" helped keep his stomach happy and less irritated). 

But we used the slippery elm cocktail when his stomach was upset or I got little vibes that maybe there was an ulcer.  To be blunt, stomach trauma was one of my worst fears because (can we all say this in unison??)

"IF THEY QUIT EATING THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO TAKE THE MEDS!!!" (i.e., they won't make it)

Slippery elm, on its own, is a gut protectant and anti-inflammatory (and an anti-inflammatory that won't fight with anything and doesn't cause problems).  It is - in my holistic vet's words -- "sort of like silicone in how it sorta slides down and coats".

The aloe, chlorophyl and probiotic combine with the slippery elm to literally HEAL a sore stomach (human or dog).  So it's one of those things you keep the ingredients on hand so you can dive in with it when you need it.  At one point in the "later days" after the drugs had begun to ravage his gut, he was on this for months.  But if Taz is showing some gut upset you can surely use it with the Pepcid with no problem.

 The aloe juice is just 100% drinkable aloe from the health store.  Many health stores carry "slippery elm tea" - that IS ground slippery elm bark without having to dump capsules.  It's also often sold in bunk in places like Whole Foods.  Acidopholus is in the refrigerator case in a health store.  Chlorophyl can be a pain to find and usually you have to buy a pint of it (to get like a few drops?? *sigh*).  I bought it online last time I got it.

1 -- half a cup of boiling water.

2 -- add 1 rounded tsp. of ground slippery elm

3 -- let cool totally

4 -- add 1/8 c. + 2 tablespoons of aloe juice

5 -- add 10 drops of chlorophyll

6 -- Add 2-3 capsules (open the caps) of acidolpholus

Once you get it mixed up and whipped smooth, it keeps in the fridge for 3-4 days (after that the acidopholous dies). 

Use a baby medicine syringe and load it FULL.  Give about half an hour before a meal.  Just put the tip of the syringe behind the canine tooth and hold the mouth loosely closed.  Squirt slowly so they can work their tongue to swallow.

No, I didn't use it every day -- Billy took Prilosec for stomach protectant (and he took it TWICE a day -- which it not typically done).  The stomach protectant question is HUGE -- it's one of the most frequently debated things, and always is up for grabs.  Prilosec is pricey.  But it worked.

We ALSO used some Chinese herbs (one that is available online called "Calm Stomach" helped keep his stomach happy and less irritated). 

But we used the slippery elm cocktail when his stomach was upset or I got little vibes that maybe there was an ulcer.  To be blunt, stomach trauma was one of my worst fears because (can we all say this in unison??)

"IF THEY QUIT EATING THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO TAKE THE MEDS!!!" (i.e., they won't make it)

Slippery elm, on its own, is a gut protectant and anti-inflammatory (and an anti-inflammatory that won't fight with anything and doesn't cause problems).  It is - in my holistic vet's words -- "sort of like silicone in how it sorta slides down and coats".

The aloe, chlorophyl and probiotic combine with the slippery elm to literally HEAL a sore stomach (human or dog).  So it's one of those things you keep the ingredients on hand so you can dive in with it when you need it.  At one point in the "later days" after the drugs had begun to ravage his gut, he was on this for months.  But if Taz is showing some gut upset you can surely use it with the Pepcid with no problem.

 The aloe juice is just 100% drinkable aloe from the health store.  Many health stores carry "slippery elm tea" - that IS ground slippery elm bark without having to dump capsules.  It's also often sold in bunk in places like Whole Foods.  Acidopholus is in the refrigerator case in a health store.  Chlorophyl can be a pain to find and usually you have to buy a pint of it (to get like a few drops?? *sigh*).  I bought it online last time I got it.

1 -- half a cup of boiling water.

2 -- add 1 rounded tsp. of ground slippery elm

3 -- let cool totally

4 -- add 1/8 c. + 2 tablespoons of aloe juice

5 -- add 10 drops of chlorophyll

6 -- Add 2-3 capsules (open the caps) of acidolpholus

Once you get it mixed up and whipped smooth, it keeps in the fridge for 3-4 days (after that the acidopholous dies). 

Use a baby medicine syringe and load it FULL.  Give about half an hour before a meal.  Just put the tip of the syringe behind the canine tooth and hold the mouth loosely closed.  Squirt slowly so they can work their tongue to swallow.

Hi everyone,

I haven't been here in a while but it's awesome to see Callie and Johnny etc still being super helpful on this thread! You guys are definitely life savers! Keep up the good work, guys!! :)

My pup was diagnosed 7months ago and is still doing well and back to her old crazy, energetic self :) she had a few complications along the way (low platelets/suspected IMPT, high liver values) and yes, in the initial stages her PCV did fluctuate a bit after the transfusions... and drove me insane, especially when they were low to begin with...! Thankfully everything seems to be in the normal range with PCV around 45-47% & platelets hanging around the 500k range!

We haven't experienced any secondary infections yet (fingers crossed we wont!). I try to keep her clean with baby wipes when she goes outside and feed her stuff that I *think* helps such as blueberries/yoghurt for UTIs. Her skins been a bit dry and thin and shes lost a bit of hair but is getting better as we sloooowly taper off the drugs. I also try to minimise drug exposure and feed her organic stuff. Not sure if it helps but guess it can't hurt? Hehe.

Another thing my vet mentioned that you may consider is the condition of the teeth~ As they are on immunosuppressants and you cannot fix them raw bones to chew, it's important to clean them manually because apparently gum infections etc can add unwanted complications and at worst,  trigger another relapse! Apparently the teeth are often neglected but yea... food for thought hehe.

So hang in there, newbies, it's an uphill battle but there's definitely hope, as many on this thread can testify :)

*jumping up and down waving at Silken_Tofu!""

THAT IS GREAT!!!  So glad she's doing well!!!

That's awesome Silken!  Good to hear things are heading in the right direction! It's great when they finally start acting normal again...especially after fighting so hard!

Keep up the good work!

*waves at Callie and Johnny*!

Yea it is great! Thank you guys so so much for all the info on this site :) it's been AWESOME~ even though i know it's not "over", it's just so helpful to just be aware of the potential issues so if/when they arise I at least have an idea of how to address it rather than running around freaking out which is very counter-productive i must say!

Oh and I must also second (or third... or forth) everyone here who stressed the importance of being comfortable with your vet and find another one if they're not really being helpful! The vet treating Yoyo is soooo busy but she always takes the time to answer emails/calls and responds quickly regardless of how menial the questions are, so it has really made the whole thing a lot easier to deal with.

annie_sling

Finallyyyy, does anyone know if they make compression bandages for dogs?? Her elbow is all ulcerated and gross and the last thing she needs right now is more bodily drama

Brutus had a wound on his elbow that took forever to heal.  I used backer rod & duct tape to make a donut for the elbow to sit in, so that he wasn't constantly putting pressure on the elbow.  I used stretchy tape (elastikon) and vet wrap to hold it in place.  It took me a while to perfect the art of wrapping the elbow, but once I got it figured out, it worked very well.

 ahh, that's perfect, thank you! elastikon has been a life-saver--everything else just slides down her leg within an hour, regardless of how i wrap it--and the donut idea is the best.

Hi All, Hopefully everyone's dogs are doing well. I continue on this roller coaster ride. This is emotionally draining.

When I get blood results for Taz, the PCV is done in the office and the HCT (I assume that is the hematocrit) level is reported from the lab where the blood is sent for analysis. I am assuming therefore that the hematocrit level is more accurate.

So on 1/3 his hematocrit was 17.0, on 1/5 (when I took him to a new specialist) his hematocrit was 13.0, he had blood drawn on Monday (1/10) and the hematocrit level was 14.3.

So should I be happy or upset?? I don't even know anymore, the dogs temperment is good, eating and drinking fine. I just have a hard time believing the numbers can go up and down that much and his temperment stays the same (my local vet reiterated to me what Johnny said (I think it was Johnny) that basically his body is just acclimating to the lower oxygen levels).  He is considered "highly regenerative", just the disease process is still ongoing.

Tommorrow it will be 3 weeks since I started this s*cky journey and it is really exhausting. But I guess it is what it is and what is going to happen is what will happen. I do get bummed because I don't see a lot of other evidence for dogs hanging out there this long with such low hematocrit levels, but I can't think of anything else that I can do.

Hi there I am now on starting on the 9th week and Muffin is holding steady at 38, they cut her predineson down from 30 mgs daily to 20 along with the azathioprine 25 mg every other day, pepcid 2 x a day and 1/8 baby asprin daily, we will stay at this treatment for 2 more weeks and if still stable we will try and cut the predineson a little more.

Taz's Mom don't get to dishearted, this is a rough diease, my Muffin was up and down the first 3 weeks and then finally started slowly going up,

I am new here but 8 weeks ago you all were sending me good thoughts and I thank you, Muffin started out at 20 and dropped to 12 two days later, we stayed away from the transfusion, she went up to 15 in two days and then we went to 17 and I was so happy even though it was less than we started.

Taz's Mom

So on 1/3 his hematocrit was 17.0, on 1/5 (when I took him to a new specialist) his hematocrit was 13.0, he had blood drawn on Monday (1/10) and the hematocrit level was 14.3.

So should I be happy or upset?? I don't even know anymore, the dogs temperment is good, eating and drinking fine. I just have a hard time believing the numbers can go up and down that much and his temperment stays the same (my local vet reiterated to me what Johnny said (I think it was Johnny) that basically his body is just acclimating to the lower oxygen levels).  He is considered "highly regenerative", just the disease process is still ongoing.

Part of what is difficult with Taz is that the vets haven't transfused him again.  When Billy got that low they transfused him (and remember he had SIX transfusions -- but they generally transfused him when he got down to like 15 or so.  There are reasons for not transfusing, and reasons FOR doing it but given that his levels are going back up and **NOT** dropping that's actually cause to celebrate.  Particularly as it was over 5 days.

 For the LONGEST time (months and months) I was getting his PCV done like every 3-4 days. 

Yes the PCV and the hematacrit are the same "value" -- just the PCV is done by hand.  And generally you have to have it done by the same person at the same lab/vet to keep it "consistent" -- but it's like I said -- bobbling between 13 and 14.3 is actually more worrying than 21 to 22.3 because the numbers are lower and still in the definite "danger zone".

1.  It's important that he's NOT dropping.

2.  It's important that he IS going "up" -- that's an important tipping of the scale because even IF there is still destruction there is LESS destruction than there is new blood being built.

 See remember -- even in a 100% healthy, normal dog -- there ARE blood cells DYING every day!  A red blood cell from infancy in the bone marrow to one that dies of "old age" is only about 10 weeks!!! 

So -- think logic here -- (sorta like if two trains leave stations 400 miles apart .... ??)  -- on one hand you have a certain rate of the body having to ALWAYS make blood.  So --- just staying "level" means destruction and construction are "equal".  Well here you have an active disease process trying to make the body KILL it's own blood but at the same time the body is working EVEN HARDER THAN NORMAL to make up the loss and stay ahead of the destruction.

EVEN WHEN the body stops attacking the blood -- the PCV doesn't go up by leaps and bounds.  It took Billy's body ... wow ... I'm gonna say like 3 months to work it's way from the low 20's all the way up to the high 30's.  My point being that it was transfused HIGHER than Taz's is now and STILL took a long long time to work back up to "normal".  And then I'm thinking it took probably another month or so to start really hovering at 42.

NEVER does it just zoom up to the low 40's from 10 virtually overnight.  And coming from as low as Taz's is -- it is hard on the body to BE that low -- but at this point they may not want to wave a red flag in front of the immune system by introducing foreign blood (which may contain antibodies to things Taz has never been exposed to so you don't want to give the immune system somethig else TO target).

Billy was not even CLOSE to holding like Taz is at 3 weeks - AND remember -- Taz's body is also battling the tick disease and coping with the doxycycline.  So that's definitely going to be part of why his body just isn't zooming up. 

If he's acting "good" and he's eating and he's gaining??? I'd be having a PAR-TEEE.  You're doing well.

This disease just so sux big time -- it is SO hard emotionally.  Just the whole toll of the care-taking and the medicine, etc. is a huge deal.

Were you able to start him on acupuncture and some of the blood-moving herbs??

We having talked in a while -- but I would be seriously trying to make sure that he has enough blood builders (particularly iron -- it tooks me WEEKS to convince the vets to check his iron and when they did, ***I WAS RIGHT*** - his iron was VERY low).  And he was ON blood movers and blood builders via TCVM -- but it's just that this disease places SUCH a drain on the body that you really have to get creative in how to get iron into them.

And iron "supplements" are typically NOT the way to go.  They have too many side effects -- they are hard on the stomach, they are constipating in the extreme and generally hard to take.  But that's why I'm so "beef heart, hummus, leafy greens" -- it takes MORE of those things to get the iron up, but generally they are friendlier to the body. 

Don't let yourself get down -- I was thinking of you tonight -- he IS doing well, and for such a little guy to be striving SO hard ... I'd be really proud of him.  (Tell him this is important -- Aunt Callie gets queasy looking down from heights and this soapbox I'm standing on is too danged far from the ground!!! *hugs*)

**waving** HI!!! Glad to see you here finally!!!

Muffin I am SO GLAD you're doing well!!!

I have to make a sad post -- I just got off the phon with Brie du Lac - Chloe went over Rainbow Bridge yesterday. She declined very suddenly over the weekend -- no one knows if it was actually IMHA or the severe liver problems she had.

 Brie was actually on her way to the vet to help her over the Bridge (it was THAT apparent she was "done" and could go no further and was only trying to 'hang on' for Brie) and Chloe knew when they pulled into the parking lot at the vet's.  Chloe just saved Brie from that further sadness - She just crossed the Bridge on her own.

Brie had a talk with Chloe on Sunday -- just to let Chloe know it was ok to cross if she needed to.  And sometimes it is such a wonderful thing to give your dog permission to do that --

Brie is grieving but I am so proud of her.  She's made her peace with this -- Chloe was her first dog and definitely a closely-bonded heart dog, but Brie didn't want Chloe to suffer just to live for her.  Chloe would be SO proud of Brie - I just know it. 

Her relationship to Brie was very similar to Prissy's and mine. 

Find Prissy, please Chloe ... you two will have much in common I think!

Thanks for posting Callie, if you speak to Brie, please let her know others are thinking of her.

Brie if you read this please know many understand your pain. I am so sorry for your lost, surround yourself with people that you can reach out to that can help you through this difficult time, avoid people who don't understand the love and bond that existed between you and Chloe. I just lost a dog I was extremely bonded to in April, it was sudden, she died in an accident. I had not lost a dog in many years and I forgot how horribly painful it can be, but I did take comfort in the fact that I gave that dog all of the love I had and an absolutely wonderful life. Just like you did for Chloe. Its hard to love something so much that is not going to live as long as you do; my friend put it very simply, when you love dogs and have them in your life you are going to cry a lot of tears. We all go there again and again because the love and joy they bring to our lives is so worth dealing with the pain at the end.

When you feel better I suggest you get the book "Dog Years" by Mark Doty, it is an absolutely beautifully written book, when I was really down from my lost in April, I stumbled across it at our library, it sort of fell off the shelf in my lap, I figured that was a "sign", I found it very reaffirming. Please take care of yourself..

I think for her the turning point this weekend was the stark realization that in this case she was not wanting to let go of Chloe for herself (she'd be alone) rather than her taking care OF Chloe.  When I was her age and lost *my* heart dog (who was also my first dog that was MINE alone) I didn't do nearly as well and it took me years to process my grief.

It may be a while before she can steele herself to check in here -- if you click that "contact" button on the right at the top of each post you can email her.  She's appreciate it I think.