A Vicious Cycle - Time for Change?

Benedict

To touch on the subject of separating subjects...we used to have that, to a degree, when we had a section devoted to CM, and even the idea of that section, let alone the contents, rubbed some members the wrong way.  We can't please everyone, all of the time.  Trying to do so is exhausting for the staff.  There really isn't any feasible way to make this forum the "ideal" for every poster here, all we can do is set boundaries and either members abide by them, or not, and when not...take disciplinary action.  I would like to reiterate the point that membership here is a privilege...and people who abuse it will, in the end, have that privilege permanently revoked. 

I also remember, that when we had a CM section it was infiltrated by several members with oozing negativity, so, at that point the CM supporters were on the defense once again......

I honestly don't know...I only read a post or two in the CM section....but I am not sure infiltrated is the right word...it was a public forum, open to everyone.  Perhaps people made unwise choices with regards to picking their battles, and shouldn't have gone in there...but it was open for them to do so, there were no rules as to who was allowed to post.   

The reason I wrote "infiltrated", let's see, certain members just posted to stir the pot even when a thread was moving along in a very nice way.....

snownose

The reason I wrote "infiltrated", let's see, certain members just posted to stir the pot even when a thread was moving along in a very nice way.....

Yes that's true.  But it's not as if those who were CM supporters weren't stirring pots in other sections either.  Both parties were equally guilty unless my memory, and the forum archives are faulty.

I like the way the board is being run, the new administration and mods as well as Amstaffy (who owes us lots of pics of her special!)  I do not envy their volunteer jobs, and I sure don't envy them the task of dealing with me!

Sure, attitudes and post topics are a vicious cycle.  I rarely post anymore because it seems like I've read most of these posts before. I do lurk though, on the chance that maybe I can see something from a perspective different than others- and perhaps give the OP a clue, a hint, or some clear cut advice.  So I've tried to take my own advice and stop adding fuel to fires.  One particular thread got snipy, so I stopped posting in it.  I wish others would do the same. 

snownose

Benedict

To touch on the subject of separating subjects...we used to have that, to a degree, when we had a section devoted to CM, and even the idea of that section, let alone the contents, rubbed some members the wrong way.  We can't please everyone, all of the time.  Trying to do so is exhausting for the staff.  There really isn't any feasible way to make this forum the "ideal" for every poster here, all we can do is set boundaries and either members abide by them, or not, and when not...take disciplinary action.  I would like to reiterate the point that membership here is a privilege...and people who abuse it will, in the end, have that privilege permanently revoked. 

 

I also remember, that when we had a CM section it was infiltrated by several members with oozing negativity, so, at that point the CM supporters were on the defense once again......

See, now again, we are getting back to the whole "he/she started it!" thing.  It takes two to tango even if the other poster asks you (collective) to dance.  Each poster is only responsible for what they post, not how someone else chooses to respond.  Maybe if *everyone* made more of an effort to own their words there would be less work for the mods..... 

Want to know what I remember?  The "Jim" from i-dog, with solo moderator days when we didn't have 3 foot sized signatures, we self-checked ourselves, and many people "rescued" each other from misguided and retaliatory dog training.  Ideas were suggested, maligned, reinforced, questioned, researched, celebrated, and  debated....often times it was heated   and it always ran the gamut.  Today... What has changed?  The degree to which folks will express their ideas, and the degree to which they will not agree to see others expression.

 Fear not.  I learn from all, and filter well, and wish all the moderators patience and perserverance.

Kim_MacMillan

On the perspective of the entire group, the moderators are doing more work than they should have to be doing, and the work they are doing is controlling such petty things as baiting and name calling, fighting like children. This is supposed to be a mature forum folks! With intelligent, mature adults! Why has it come to this? I feel for the moderators who have to put up with these things.

I totally agree. I'm a new member, so I don't know what it used to be like around here and I haven't ready any other posts on this thread yet, but I'm a moderator on a German shepherd board and I can tell you that NOBODY there, mods and admin alike, would put up with the crap that mods and admn have to put up with on this board. Rules are rules, and if someone is disregarding them, they get a warning or two, maybe even three, but then if they keep playing games their board privileges are temporarily suspended or permanently revoked. Period. It absolutely amazes me how many times I see *content deleted* on a thread, often from the same people over and over again. And yet, nothing ever happens to them, there are no consequences other than having their posts edited, yet again.

On my board we don't worry too much about staying on topic, threads are allowed to flow in other directiions that are related to, but not strictly on topic, as might happen in a normal conversation, or even to veer totally off topic, and posters are free to respond or to ignore to any post as they see fit. I'm sure some of the content deleted stuff here is because it's off topic, but I know a lot of it isn't, it's because of name calling, petty bickering, and baiting. Why is that allowed to continue?
 

Dog_ma

Time outs. Big fan.  

You get a warning. Ignore it - automatic TO.   

On every board I've participated, and yes some are quite intense, you don't get to ignore a moderator once he or she has said "Cut it out."

Exactly - play by the rules, or don't play at all. You couldn't PAY me to moderate this forum, but I actually enjoy it on the GSD board. As long as people play nice they can disagree all they want. Really, it's not that hard to disagree without personal attacks and nastiness.
 

All I can say is: you just can't win.

Either way there are unhappy people complaining about it.

So, just like desensitization, you just kind of stop worrying about it and do your best.  And at the end of the day, hopefully MOST people are happy :)

Cassidys Mom

I totally agree. I'm a new member, so I don't know what it used to be like around here and I haven't ready any other posts on this thread yet, but I'm a moderator on a German shepherd board and I can tell you that NOBODY there, mods and admin alike, would put up with the crap that mods and admn have to put up with on this board. Rules are rules, and if someone is disregarding them, they get a warning or two, maybe even three, but then if they keep playing games their board privileges are temporarily suspended or permanently revoked. Period. It absolutely amazes me how many times I see *content deleted* on a thread, often from the same people over and over again. And yet, nothing ever happens to them, there are no consequences other than having their posts edited, yet again.

So, are you saying that your application of said forum would be a good idea for this forum?

Edited--Decided to withdraw post.

snownose

So, are you saying that your application of said forum would be a good idea for this forum?

Geez, Louise! I'm not saying anything except to point out differences between this board and the board I help moderate. Please try not to read things into my posts that aren't there. Really, I'm pretty straightforward - I say what I mean, I mean what I say.

It's not my place to make suggestions on how things should be run around here, nobody asked my opinion. I'm merely making an observation that there is a lot less conflict on our board, probably because people DO self moderate when they know that if they don't, they'll be banned. Disagreements are fine, heated discussions are fine, off topic posts are fine, you don't have to like everybody and they don't have to like you, (there's definitely a few people there that I'd like to smack upside the head!), but everyone has to obey the rules.

We don't want to have to follow troublemakers around the board constantly editing their posts, we're moderators, not babysitters, and everyone either knows or should know the rules, they're stickied at the top of every forum. When people deliberately violate those rules they get an official warning. If they choose not to heed the warning and continue crossing that line, they're gone. Why have rules if people don't have to obey them? Why should people obey the rules if there are no consequences?

Cassidy's Mom

It also helps to have clearly defined, fair and objective rules, so everyone understands what is expected, and that the consequences will be fairly applied.
 

Ixas_girl

Cassidy's Mom

It also helps to have clearly defined, fair and objective rules, so everyone understands what is expected, and that the consequences will be fairly applied.
 

Absolutely, that goes without saying. I should mention that we don't ban members lightly, and there is usually discussion among the mods and admins beforehand. The exception would be for really flagrant violations, which might be dealt with immediately and without warning. That's very rare though. Occasional minor infractions are usually just edited out with a PM sent to the member explaining why, and tolerance is shown when it's clear that the member simply didn't realize something isn't allowed. It's the pattern of repeat behavior that we look for that shows a member is consciously disregarding the rules and ignoring warnings.

I think the main problem with the way this board is moderated is that too many times red ink is applied to very minor infractions. As a result the red ink loses it's impact. It's like constantly yelling at your kids, but when something serious happens you wonder why they don't listen to you. It used to be rare to see an edited post and if you did you could be sure that it was a clear violation and unacceptable behaviour to the admin, moderators and members alike. Now one never knows. Posts are deleted for OT when a comment has simply sparked a question or an experience. To me this is an 'aside' not OT. Other times warning posts are given to stay OT, stop baiting and/or bickering etc. But when you read the posts you end up scratching your head and apparently it is not board policy to clarify. So my point is - if the board wants it's members to take the moderation  seriously then it has to make being edited a serious matter. Let the small infractions stand to be judged by the participants in the thread and save the red ink to make the point that "this will not be tolerated!" And Mean It!

To be fair to the mods, I think many times they try to step in before things escalate and that is why we see some fairly minor comments edited and not so obvious warnings given. However is it impossible to predict what's coming done the pipe and to be prejudged for something you haven't said or done (yet) is unfair. When a real violation occurs, that is the time you get tough.