snippty snappity slop - subjective ambiguity ran up the clock

lostcoyote

red ink day after day, i end up just ignoring the moderators requests completely

I think that's interesting.

BEVOLASVEGAS

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*referencing previously deleted content* That was a felt insult when Amstaffy directed the implied mental deficiency at me.  The ambiguity or the save face portion is for others to see the statement as having some levity in it.  The right thing to do is extend an apology. 

Also the Amstaffy statement quoted from another thread is an invitation for disrespectful members to leave.  The ambiguity is what behavior is consider disrespectful.  When reading the invite, I think it might be directed at me and I am being disrespectful without knowing it.  Right away I said ok I will leave. 

In NDR, and not knowing the members or their relationships, there are many many "disrespectful" comments and "personal putdowns" and cut ups going on....all the time.  I never see redink in there.   Family oriented?.....how about the conversation of taking a wild bird and using the bird to apply powder on the face or stuffing that same bird in a bra to make the female look "perkier".  My point is that NDR is allow to define the acceptable contents of posts.  I submit that the regular participating members of the Behavior section should be allowed to do the same.  It looks to me that the Admin/Mods don't know the members in that section or understand their relationships.  I also want to remind you that when the section was separated, both sectioned peetered out, very little activity until members were able to define their own dialogue, once again.  History will repeat itself and the result will be less activity and users online will decline.

Yeah, Ron.  Me too.

Why does everyone posting in a thread NEED to know who's being spoken to?  If you honestly feel that you aren't being snippy, if you aren't baiting or attacking someone else on a personal level, why do you need to know who IS?  Those responsible for the red ink are notified privately.  And, it's always been the policy of this forum to keep things private, other than the edits which are there for all to see.

Do people REALLY want to see the names of folks who got a PM listed as some sort of a "bad" list?  And I think that often a warning is a chance for everyone to stop and think before the train runs right off the tracks.

glenmar

Why does everyone posting in a thread NEED to know who's being spoken to? 

We don't need to know who is being spoken to. Unless it is ME.   If it's not me, and the people who are being spoken to are getting a PM, they why the public post? If we break the rules that we all know and signed up to follow, the mods can and should (IMO) take the action. Not continue to come into a thread time after time, saying what amounts to, "Children, watch your step... I'm warning you... I really mean it... this it the LAST time!... Next time, I'm cracking skulls"! Why wouldn't people ignore that? Especially if we're told that the perpetrators are being dealt with by PM. 

We're not being difficult *referencing previously deleted content* this is a real, legitimate concern/question. It's confusing.  

I know you (mods) don't want to treat us like children, but in my opinion, that's exactly what you're doing by placing these in-thread reminders to no one in particular and then not letting us know what rules you have determined are being broken or skirted. We know the rules. But they're subjective. Subject to each mod's perception. I don't understand why the mod doesn't just edit the offending phrase and move on. At least, then the ambiguity would be gone and I wouldn't be left wondering, "Did my behavior motivate that mod to put that warning in the thread"?

BTW, I have asked that question and the mod refused to answer.  

FourIsCompany

glenmar

Why does everyone posting in a thread NEED to know who's being spoken to? 

 

We don't need to know who is being spoken to. Unless it is ME.   If it's not me, and the people who are being spoken to are getting a PM, they why the public post? If we break the rules that we all know and signed up to follow, the mods can and should (IMO) take the action. Not continue to come into a thread time after time, saying what amounts to, "Children, watch your step... I'm warning you... I really mean it... this it the LAST time!... Next time, I'm cracking skulls"! Why wouldn't people ignore that? Especially if we're told that the perpetrators are being dealt with by PM. 

We're not being difficult *previously deleted content*, this is a real, legitimate concern/question. It's confusing.  

I know you (mods) don't want to treat us like children, but in my opinion, that's exactly what you're doing by placing these in-thread reminders to no one in particular and then not letting us know what rules you have determined are being broken or skirted. We know the rules. But they're subjective. Subject to each mod's perception. I don't understand why the mod doesn't just edit the offending phrase and move on. At least, then the ambiguity would be gone and I wouldn't be left wondering, "Did my behavior motivate that mod to put that warning in the thread"?

BTW, I have asked that question and the mod refused to answer.  

OMG, did you not read any of the other posts in this thread?  The public warnings in addition to the private ones ARE appropriate and do serve an important purpose.  People who are tempted to join in the arguments will be aware that the mod's don't like the way the thread is going.  It's like.  Again, why the heck can are you not capable of asking the moderator in a PM what in your post was offensive, etc.?  You ask questions publicly on the thread, and moderators should not be baited.  *content removed, personal*  Ask in PM.  Even if they don't respond to you, they don't have to. *content removd, personal*  This board is run very well, and if the mod's want it to stay a certain way it's their perogative.  You are NOT in charge here or deserve anything nor do I.  *content removed, inflammatory*

Couple of thoughts, 

I see general warnings in life, all the time...in my place of work, on road signs, in stores, in parking lots. Ya know what? about 99% of them don't apply to me...I read them, I go about my business...

If something does not apply to me, I know it...because I am aware of the sort of behavior I do and don't indulge in. I have never seen a posted general warning and gotten concerned about it...unless I had just done something near the edge. That is me...in my general away from forum life...

But, FIC I will address your specific question...

FourIsCompany

I don't understand why the mod doesn't just edit the offending phrase and move on. At least, then the ambiguity would be gone and I wouldn't be left wondering, "Did my behavior motivate that mod to put that warning in the thread"?

as was just illustrated by your post...when a mod removes something...that doesn't always, end reference to it. That is why general warnings are issued...because if they are not...the offending phrase or idea will be referenced again and again...everyone must give their .02 about it, use it in a clever turn or phrase, express their offense to it, etc. And the thread is further derailed as this happens.

FourIsCompany

[I don't understand why the mod doesn't just edit the offending phrase and move on. At least, then the ambiguity would be gone and I wouldn't be left wondering, "Did my behavior motivate that mod to put that warning in the thread"?

From what I have seen, this is Danehaven's style and for me that silent authority has a lot of impact on refocusing.  Again, members on their own will eventually move on. 

I read every single post in this thread. I felt my questions were not answered. 

ottoluv

Again, why the heck can are you not capable of asking the moderator in a PM what in your post was offensive, etc.?

Did you not read my post? I HAVE asked in PM. It has ended in chaos, without my question being answered.

ottoluv

You ask questions publicly on the thread, and moderators should not be baited.*previously removed content*  Ask in PM. 

I DID ask in PM. I don't know what you're talking about.  

ottoluv

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ottoluv

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Gina, you make a good point about general warnings in life. However, traffic laws and so on are usually pretty clear. I'm sorry, but the rules here are not clear. They are subjective. There's nothing subjective about "One Way - Do Not Enter" or "Warning: Microwave in Use", etc. For example, I am HIGHLY offended by ottoluv's previous post directed at me. HIGHLY offended. And I don't get offended easily.

People would not be complaining about the subjectivity if it was so clear cut. And warnings would be understood if the rules weren't so subjective. That's my only complaint. I hope it's clear that the warnings would be understandable if the rules were less subjective.

And thank you for addressing my question.

My own two cents:  If it really bothers anyone that much that they feel the need to keep poking and prodding moderators and admin about it, then they need to take a break.  Unplug the computer and go camping, take a walk, get out of the house. 

Carping, bickering, passive aggressiveness, sniping, nitpicking,  feigning ignorance, double entendre, and constantly referencing offending posts really negates any positive input that one could have on this board. 

My grandmother was a tough old gal.  She survived the depression, the dust bowl, and a couple of fires that destroyed all her possessions.  She had varicose veins that hurt her so bad that standing was a chore.  She complained less in the time I knew her than some of the members of this board have done on this single thread.   I don't understand what this is about.  Post your ideas and express yourself to the best of your ability-if you get edited politely PM the admin and ask why.  Then DON'T DO IT AGAIN unless you want to be edited again. 

As far as I know none of the moderators are getting paid for their work.  They were and are members that post as well.  It's a shame to see them being hassled when there are much better ways for them and us to spend our time. 

FourIsCompany

Did you not read my post? I HAVE asked in PM. It has ended in chaos, without my question being answered.

And as I posted above *content removed, personal*  They don't have to respond to you.  Even if they don't, it's still not appropriate for a public post. *content removed, personal*

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FourIsCompany

If we break the rules that we all know and signed up to follow, the mods can and should (IMO) take the action

Which happens with regularity.

FourIsCompany

come into a thread time after time, saying what amounts to, "Children, watch your step... I'm warning you... I really mean it... this it the LAST time!... Next time, I'm cracking skulls"!

There are only so many options, imo. General warning. Censure, sometimes with a pm to the person involved. Membership suspension. Membership revokation.

FourIsCompany

Why wouldn't people ignore that?

I don't see the need to ignore numerous warnings. But, for some, the repeated use of a correction is a hint that the correction is not working. The reward of posting whatever it is in spite of warnings is greater than the corrections given. Which leaves two options. Increase the punishment until the behavior stops, or motivate to something else that is incompatible withe the undesired behavior. I know it sounds like dog training but really, it's an organism thing. For me, some warnings or corrections work well. My response is to either shut down or comply, in some cases. In other cases, my best option would be to leave the scene, whatever it is. No, I'm not specifically inviting or suggesting anyone should leave, those are just the options that I can perceive.

It's funny that we can agree on a number of important things but get so bound up on others.

FourIsCompany

People would not be complaining about the subjectivity if it was so clear cut.

Nope they'd be complaining about something else.

The Admin here has addressed the modding issue...I don't know what else to tell you.

ron2

The reward of posting whatever it is in spite of warnings is greater than the corrections given. Which leaves two options. Increase the punishment until the behavior stops, or motivate to something else that is incompatible withe the undesired behavior. I know it sounds like dog training but really, it's an organism thing.

LOL This is so funny, ron! Besides being true, it adds much-needed levity here. And sometimes, we just need to accept the way things are because it's the leaders of the pack who make and enforce the rules and we just need to follow, whether we agree or understand them or not.

I just hope I don't get alpha-rolled! LOL I comply, I comply! LOL
 

FourIsCompany

This is so funny, ron! Besides being true, it adds much-needed levity here.

I'm glad you interpreted it that way. I wasn't thinking funny until I realized that it sounded like our dog training threads.

For the most part, I think the forum can survive. We've had times before when tempers got high and then things settled down. I've known a few members that start out gun-slinging on everything. Then, they stepped back, thought about what they wrote, what they've learned, as well as trying to understand it from another's perspective and came back a little sweeter.

I used to have a hard time learning anything and a limited ability to listen if someone was browbeating me. Then, I learned to ignore it, which made engaging in that behavior worthless. "Nice matters" isn't just a deft, piquant phrase from Michigan, it's a fact.

I was just thinking.  For those who dont know if the warnings apply to you.  You know that saying.... If the shoe fits....

Or, here's another one, one in every five people is phychotic and if you have four friends that are normal then it must be YOU... or something like that.... there's different variations of it.  Like, in every circle of friends there's a really annoying one who................. and if you're sitting there thinking "None of MY friends are like that" then you probably ARE that friend!  If you see public warnings in a thread and you can't see any unacceptable behaviour.... it's probably your post that caused the warning.  I mean PROBABLY.  Just as a general rule of thumb. 

But honestly, although it can make you feel a bit, you know, rubbishy, at the time... it's not the end of the world!!  It's happened to me and I just did what Ed suggested.... took a holiday from the board for a bit.  Popped back and browsed to see if the mood had changed.  Resisted the temptation to go back to the threads I'd been in before and just let sleeping dogs lie.  Moved on.  The mods/admin have every right to run this forum how they want.  They CAN'T please every one of us, so they will just please themselves... anyone who likes it stays, anyone who doesn't goes elsehwere.  It's easy.  When you start feeling het up about what someone has posted, be it a regular member or a mod, keep this in mind:  Its JUST A FORUM!