Dog Community

Forum "Moderation"

probe1957

Posted : 4/9/2007 11:14:43 AM

I am not sure I am posting this in the right section but it seems to me to be the most appropriate.

I don't hang out in the CM section of the training forum very much. I don't know much, if anything, about CM and a couple of people, for whom I have a lot of respect, namely Glenda and Anne, have pretty much convinced me that I don't need to know much about him. All that being said, when I see comments like this, I think it is cause for concern and worthy of discussion:

ORIGINAL: glenmar
Hmmmmm, I could point out that since I'm the moderator here, *I* get to be right.

My first impression, upon reading that comment, was that someone is a bit stuck on themself. When Jaime challenged Glenda on the comment, she said that it was made tongue in cheek. Well, maybe it was, but I submit that many of us who have been here for awhile can REASONABLY conclude that the comment was based on actual conviction and not said in jest. In any case the comment was, in my opinion, inappropriate. Being a moderator most certainly does not make one any more "right" than someone else and the belief that it does is is self-righteous and certainly is an opinion that is best not expressed by a forum moderator.

As an aside, I would like to mention that I have some concern also about what I see as far too frequent threats to close threads. That didn't used to happen here and is a trend that does not please me as a forum member.

In closing, let me say that I have been participating in internet forums since the mid 1980's. At that time, Compuserve was affectionately called "CI$" and cost $19.80 an hour to play on their servers. In other words, I have been doing this for a long time. I have moderated forums and chat rooms. I believe that forum moderators have a responsibility to facilitate a conversation and to make sure forum members don't run terribly afoul of the rules. Forum moderators, IN THEIR OFFICIAL CAPACITY, should mostly be seen and seldom be heard. Forum moderators should MODERATE, not dictate.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Glenda as a person and as a dog owner, but as a forum moderator, I think she needs to lighten up just a bit. I don't want, nor do I think Glenda wants, this to become Glenda's Dog Forum.

dogslife

Posted : 4/9/2007 11:32:42 AM

I have to agree with you on this, and you are sure not alone on this line of thought.

sooner

Posted : 4/9/2007 11:41:17 AM

ORIGINAL: probe1957

Well, maybe it was, but I submit that many of us who have been here for awhile can REASONABLY conclude that the comment was based on actual conviction and not said in jest. In any case the comment was, in my opinion, inappropriate. Being a moderator most certainly does not make one any more "right" than someone else and the belief that it does is is self-righteous and certainly is an opinion that is best not expressed by a forum moderator.

As an aside, I would like to mention that I have some concern also about what I see as far too frequent threats to close threads. That didn't used to happen here and is a trend that does not please me as a forum member.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Glenda as a person and as a dog owner, but as a forum moderator, I think she needs to lighten up just a bit. I don't want, nor do I think Glenda wants, this to become Glenda's Dog Forum.

Thank you Billy, for bringing this up. I attempted to address some concerns of this nature by PM to the admin some time ago, but you say it much more effectively and diplomatically than I ever could.

probe1957

Posted : 4/9/2007 12:07:15 PM

Have you ever known me to be anything but diplomatic, Kelly? [

]

jjsmom06

Posted : 4/9/2007 12:20:41 PM

I absolutely see where you are coming from on most of this Billy, and I agree but there are some areas that perhaps I have a slightly different view. Please feel free to disagree with my opinions publicly. You and I don#%92t see eye-to-eye on a great many things and that is OK…that is what makes us individuals and one of the many reasons I respect you because you are a person who is capable of “agreeing to disagree”. [

]... and YES ...in case you think you did NOT read that last sentence correctly I DID say I respect you![

]

I am one of several people who has been ASKING, PLEADING, BEGGING for more moderation of the training section. It seems at times we have had over moderation in some sections and none in others (I mean absolutely NO disrespect in that statement NOR do I believe I could somehow do it better…). The training arena has gotten WAY out of hand for many months and I believe that more moderation needs to take place as forum member have seriously lost their ability to be rational and moderate themselves. While I once enjoyed learning in that section, I now mostly stay away after too much controversy. I do believe there are situations where a “threat” to close a thread is very necessary but I do ALSO agree that it in many recent cases this threat was very unnecessary. I too hate to see threads closed and believe that just a BIT of moderation can help keep things in line. Perhaps the moderation has been a bit heavy handed at times, when a lighter touch could have still kept things in line.

As an aside, I would like to mention that I have some concern also about what I see as far too frequent threats to close threads. That didn't used to happen here and is a trend that does not please me as a forum member.

Being a moderator most certainly does not make one any more "right" than someone else and the belief that it does is is self-righteous and certainly is an opinion that is best not expressed by a forum moderator.

I agree with those statements wholeheartedly Billy. It is a fine line to walk pleasing everyone but I do thank you for starting this thread so that many of us can state our opinions to the admin.

To the mods and admin, thank you for doing a job that “should be” unnecessary if we humans had better control of ourselves. [

]

Have you ever known me to be anything but diplomatic, Kelly?

Since you put this out there Billy..I have to say I think one of the few places you are can be called TRULY diplomatic is in the work place...[8|]

probe1957

Posted : 4/9/2007 1:10:44 PM

ORIGINAL: jjsmom06
lease feel free to disagree with my opinions publicly.

Oh don't you worry your pretty little head about that. [

]

I am one of several people who has been ASKING, PLEADING, BEGGING for more moderation of the training section.

I absolutely agree that the training section needed more moderation than it was getting. My contention is that the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction.

as forum member have seriously lost their ability to be rational and moderate themselves.

True, but only of a VERY FEW forum members. Maybe 3.

I too hate to see threads closed and believe that just a BIT of moderation can help keep things in line. Perhaps the moderation has been a bit heavy handed at times, when a lighter touch could have still kept things in line.

That is really what I am saying and, based on the emails I have received since I started this thread, we are not alone in that opinion. I am trying to encourage people who are pm'ing and emailing to participate in the conversation here. I think admin needs to know how people feel about this issue, whether or not those people agree with me.

sooner

Posted : 4/9/2007 1:27:07 PM

I would like to submit, respectfully, that this is not the kind of moderation that the training section needed:

ORIGINAL: glenmar

lets just take the gloves off HERE and get it over with. State your opinion WITHOUT personal attacks and I think we'll be ok. Yes, this area IS for those of you who enjoy Cesar, but for this one thread, how 'bout we just go for it? But, no crying foul about those who DON'T agree with you......we can sort of a little bit suspend the rules for this thread and this thread only.

Thankfully an admin put a stop to that quickly.

jjsmom06

Posted : 4/9/2007 1:30:48 PM

I absolutely agree that the training section needed more moderation than it was getting. My contention is that the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction.

I agree… that is where I mention the “fine line”. Over moderations is just as bad IMO as NO moderation.

True, but only of a VERY FEW forum members. Maybe 3.

Perhaps 3 “regulars” but several of us who usually can stay “rational” have not remained that way.. I myself admit to losing my head on a couple threads. I would disagree and say realistically a half dozen or more of us at the VERY minimum....

I think the BIGGEST thing though that is helpful is just making sure that people “know” that the threads are being watched. For too long it was as if no one was around viewing and the “personal attacks” got out of control. The knowledge alone is enough to keep things in line in the majority of cases…

based on the emails I have received since I started this thread, we are not alone in that opinion. I am trying to encourage people who are pm'ing and emailing to participate in the conversation here. I think admin needs to know how people feel about this issue, whether or not those people agree with me.

I think this is important… even if you disagree with EVERYTHING being said here, it would be good for admin to hear people#%92s opinions. SO… everybody reading this that has an opinion on moderation please add your two cents… if you don#%92t feel comfortable doing it then pm or email me and I will post anonymously for you.[

]

pndhounds

Posted : 4/9/2007 1:45:03 PM

As an aside, I would like to mention that I have some concern also about what I see as far too frequent threats to close threads. That didn't used to happen here and is a trend that does not please me as a forum member.

This has been bothering me as well.. In some threads, as the discussion is heightened, warning the posters that the thread is going to be closed is like punishing an entire class because one or two kids acted out. This may not be the best course of action because it frustrates others who are following the conversation or participating in it. Clearly, certain threads must be closed, but I believe that a warning about appropriate decorum should at least precede threatening to close it entirely, and not the other way around.

I am grateful for the work that the moderators put into this forum. You are under-appreciated. Certainly, your decisions will not always please the masses and you probably take more "hits" than publicly known. I just ask that the forum maintains the consistency that we have all enjoyed, which includes the freedom to be passionate without flaming others personally.

JMO...Coleen

J M

Posted : 4/9/2007 5:43:06 PM

I'll put in my two cents worth I guess...

But I feel the forum is doing better with Glenda as mod.

She is right on it before it gets started. And she doesn't have a problem with calling people out for their tone.

willowchow

Posted : 4/9/2007 6:46:48 PM

I'm trying not to step on any toes.
I think Glenda has wanted this for a long time.
I think she's just trying to do a really good job and
may have overdone it in the process.
I've PM'd her with my thoughts on her closing threads and
she took those comments to heart and I believe even opened some back up.
I think she'll take these comments the same way and try to improve and/or do things differently (or maybe even the same if they are what should be happening).

Xerxes

Posted : 4/9/2007 7:41:13 PM

In reality, as most of us are adults, we should self moderate. I have taken several discussions into PM rather than open a thread where none is needed or go so far off topic it helps noone. This should be the norm rather than the exception.

However there are individuals that enjoy stirring the pot rather than allowing the steam to boil off peacefully. What do we do about those particular members? And yes, I'll admit that there are times when I have stirred the pot a bit too long. So I'm not above making mistakes.

I guess I'm kind of on the fence, I like it when the mods step up and make the "mind your P's and Q's" posts when threads are getting out of hand. But I also feel that at times some of the mods do overstep just a bit. Is there a happy medium here?

J M

Posted : 4/9/2007 8:14:11 PM

One thing I take into consideration is that this forum is connected to a business.
If this forum is in meltdown mode, it may scare off potential customers.

They could very well see the management of the forum as an extension of management of the company....or lack there of.

When we were without good mods a while back and the forum went beserk, I actually worried more about the company taking the biggest hit. I don't know why. It's not like I have any affiliation with them.

It just makes good business sense to have a well organized and well managed forum.

Angelique

Posted : 4/9/2007 8:18:22 PM

I think one thing which should be taken into account, is that Glenda was not only put into a position where along with moderation of the nutrition section and the entire training area, and the CM section [

], her appointment also happened during the posting of the new general board rules.

The CM section is a very high volume area where a lot of emotions can be involved. It naturally wanders off topic to discuss things in more depth. It's a roller coaster and a bucking horse all in one and does need a light but firm touch (calm and assertive?) but through it all I do believe (CM aside) there is good general information being exchanged there through a common terminology and starting point.

My word, just go out onto the net and compare the different communities. Ups and downs, we are so lucky! I have also been involved on the internet for awhile, and have yet to find a better place for an overall view from such a diverse group. I read through a selection of dog boards, forums, and sites each day...well, nuff said. [

]

I think self moderation, sharing personal experiences, tolerance, an open mind, and practicing what you preach goes a long way...

ETA: IMO, It seems to me there is also great value in compassion and allowing a person to find their way through a difficult situation, without losing face under the microscope of public scrutiny.

willowchow

Posted : 4/9/2007 8:37:21 PM

I also think two things need to stop and we would be much, much better off.
1. People should not be allowed to begin threads that are obviously being started because the poster knows it will cause a lot of controversy and emotion. I can see those threads from a mile away and I'm sure lots of others can too.

2. I think the people--and they know who they are--that do not like CM and cannot be open minded about his methods should simply not post in the CM area. I notice a lot of times they will say things like we are allowed to post here, etc. It's the CM area if you can't keep an open mind, don't post there. Same with clicker training, if your completely shut down on it, don't post there. I mean to me, if you are completely against it, why are you even looking there? It seems only to cause a commotion.

I think these two things would make such an improvement.

Then we wouldn't even need so much moderating.